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thett3

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Total posts: 2,178

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I am thett3 ama
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@Vader
Favorite fast food chain?
Chick fil a without any question. basic bitch answer but its mine

What is the meaning of life?
I don't know. Sorry. I would say it has to do with some intersection of family, God, and country but I only have a vague approximation 
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I am thett3 ama
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@badger
I absolutely think you're a good person, thett. One of the best. 
Too kind!


Another question. Do you recognise that a lot of the right around you are fairly fucking vile persons? Strong words, but I mean em. 

The left then are mostly divorced from reality.

There's little of politics comes from a place of actual compassion. 
I don't really see politics and personal morality as that correlated although I would say that the different groups tend to be obnoxious in different ways. people on the right can be very heartless at times, or just completely ignorant of the circumstances of others, whereas the left is just so....dogmatic. I think the thing that annoys me about (the bad kind) of leftists is their authoritarian view of knowledge,  they have almost complete trust in the institutions and media who in my eyes have totally disgraced and discredited themselves. i do think a lot of the reflexive economic conservatism of boomers and/or rich people is just "fuck you i got mine" which is an evil impulse 

I forgot completely about dylancatlow who was also one of my favourite DDO members ever.
He is not here as far as I know, but I keep somewhat in touch with him, afaik he is doing okay
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Theweakeredge AMA - Reboot
what is something you have become more conservative about in the past year?

what is something you have become more liberal about in the past year?
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Abortion: a fance to music distant and dissonant
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@SkepticalOne
I didn't fully understand your position when I made the post because I hadn't read the whole thread yet, but now that I have I definitely do. The libertarian worldview, morality as consent kind of framework...its not the most insane viewpoint in the world but I definitely don't agree. I would argue that parents would be morally obligated to donate tissues and blood to their kids if they needed it. But if I have a highest value its the family. Abortion is such a tough issue to talk about because it cuts right to what are peoples core beliefs, and I think people realize this on some level which is why it is so emotionally charged. Anyway I will let yall continue to have at it, just wanted to put in my two cents that the CORE disagreement is rarely reached in these convos 
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I am thett3 ama
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@badger
What's something, if there is anything, false about you? I'm thinking lies mostly I guess, but throw your doubts out there also if you like. Contradictions in your nature, that sort. Have you ever had any violent thoughts, even? 
hmm 

some contradictions or weird things about me....

I really, really want kids but also think I would suck as a parent/am too inherently childish 

I basically fetishize ignorance. I have a friend who thinks almost exactly as I do and we are always making jokes about being some yokel who has never even left the state and knows nothing, ultimately I think those types of people tend to be happier 

I am super modest about certain things but also really arrogant/proud about other things

I have had violent thoughts but I think everyone has. I haven't had a violent life at all, I've actually had a pampered little spoiled bitch life tbh lol. I guess that is a contradiction about me, I recognize on a very very fundamental level that the world is unfair but if things are even slightly unfair to me I cant handle it at all bc life has been TOO fair to me if anything. I guess that is a doubt I have, I consider myself a good person but I also had so much handed to me, loving family, grew up in the perfect income bracket where there is no worry about money but you arent rich enough for it to go to your head, no mental illness or physical disability...it is very easy to be "good" in those circumstances 

I still see you as a kid hugging a duck tbh haha. 
I WILL get ducks again, hopefully soon. sadly I live in a suburban area so I can't really have them now but it's actually a really major goal of mine, haha

Also where are Skep, and bossy, and Seventh? 
They are good! Skep is here under a different name, I can't remember it off the top of my head. Seventh is here as TheHammer. we all drift in and out with our interest in this site...you happened to catch me when I am posting again but I will also go months at a time without visiting. still talk with them regularly 

I'm half afraid to ask what happened with Wylted, but that too, if you fancy. 
lol well I don't know how he is doing but he is still alive and not in jail, I know he was on this site under a different name recently and got banned but I dont know the details bc it happened when I wasnt active
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Coal - AMA
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@RationalMadman
For me yes, I don’t think there is a meaningful distinction between sex and gender. But if someone who I think is clearly a man/woman wants to identify the other way Ill call them whatever they like even if I privately disagree. My big, BIG problem with all of this is with children 
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why aren't non-gun murders wildly out of control in the usa?
You can tell this is a gun problem, not just a bad person problem as the gun lobby says

It's both, right? Badger actually has the right idea on it, its like a prisoners dilemma. Would there be less murders if there were zero guns, of course, without a doubt. But since they are here why would I unilaterally disarm?

Although I have looked into it though, and gun policy is surprisingly uncorrelated with homicide rates, both between states and between countries. I wouldn't go so far as to say that guns don't make it easier to kill someone but the idea that it's a "people problem" definitely has a lot of truth to it. Homicides went up 26% in 2020 and it wasnt because gun policy got looser. 
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Coal - AMA
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@RationalMadman
like Coal said, I think women's sports are a great thing, and I don't want to see them go away 
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Abortion: a fance to music distant and dissonant
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@SkepticalOne
Besides, you have not anticipated my point: if consent to sex is consent to use of one's body by a third party - that would apply to both men and women. Should men be forced to forfeit tissue, blood, organs, etc during pregnancy? What about after birth - after all, according to you, consent to sex is consent to use of one's body by offspring, right?
Men cannot get pregnant, so this comparison makes no sense. But men absolutely do have an obligation to care for the mother during her pregnancy and to sacrifice for the child once its born. If they don't want that burden there is an easy solution...

Making a 'yes' to sex into a 'yes' to anything that might happen because of it is silly. If you unknowingly moved into a neighborhood frequented by a serial killer, you don't consent to being murdered. You have the ability and right to protect yourself. There is no obligation for you to rollover and die because 'consent to live here is consent to being murdered by serial killers' - thats absurd. You consent to live in the neighborhood - nothing else. Likewise, consent to sex is only *consent to sex* - nothing else.
"Unknowingly" is the key word. Even if you're not trying to get pregnant, you're still choosing to have sex, which you know could lead to a pregnancy. I also don't understand why people pretend that consent is the only thing that matters in morality. If someone knowingly consented to being murdered by a serial killer, I still wouldn't just let it happen, consent or no. Similarly, I don't think parents have the right to murder their children, whether they consented to have them or not. I normally wouldn't chime in on an abortion debate because I think they're totally pointless, but I think this is the key point here:

Those of us who are pro-life genuinely believe that what is happening during an abortion is the murder of a human being, and no arguments about consent or whatever else are going to sway us. If you believed, in your heart of hearts, that a fetus is a human being the arguments you're making wouldn't sway you, either. It's just a fundamental disagreement on what qualifies as human life so unless the argument is about only that, it's all just arguments that are going to go around forever with no resolution. I haven't ever seen a productive discussion on the actual disagreement, it's just too touchy...but hopefully this helps people understand where the other side is coming from a little
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Coal - AMA
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@coal
I am a left-leaning libertarian.  Though, if I am choosing between either of the two main parties in the United States, the Republican party certainly seems to be the less insane one these days.  

The DNC is unhinged.  
If the GOP can totally shed the old cultural issues it has lost on (like gay marriage) and focus on the new social issues, that I think are much stronger positions, like opposing wokeness and giving kids unregulated hormone therapy, and can move just slightly to the left on economics it will be the dominant party...but idk if that will happen.  It's annoying because the GOP doesn't have to go full DSA, but if voters could believe that there was no chance they would cut social security and medicare and they would stop obsessing over tax cuts that would probably be enough
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Lonesome Dove
Anybody read this book? I would say it’s probably my favorite book of all time. The characters felt like real people in a way I haven’t seen before or since. Would highly recommend it, even though the first 100 pages are a bit slow (which says a LOT lol. The book is close to 1000 pages) 

Also the 80s miniseries with Tommy Lee Jones and Robert Duvall was excellent as well. Would highly recommend it if you don’t want to work through a 1000 page epic 
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Coal - AMA
What’s the REAL story about what happened to DDO? 

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Does CRT have a leg standing?
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@oromagi
I am being a little too harsh with you, so I deleted my last post and apologize! I really don’t think the OP was at all talking about CRT having legal standing like a plaintiff but that’s okay we can just forget about it 
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Does CRT have a leg standing?
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@oromagi
But why make a post like that? Nobody thinks CRT has legal standing like a person would, Fauxlaw least of all. It doesn’t engage the OP and it doesn’t add anything interesting or new to a potential reader, and you have to know that. That post probably took you two or three minutes to make, you could’ve listened to your favorite song or something instead. Just don’t get it lol 
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Does CRT have a leg standing?
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@oromagi
The OP was a criticism of CRT, saying it doesn’t have a leg to stand on. Your response: “Uhm acktually, CRT can never be a plaintiff or a defendant in a case so of course it doesn’t have standing” 
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Does CRT have a leg standing?
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@oromagi
Have you really never heard the expression something doesn’t have “a leg to stand on”
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The Three Body Problem/Remembrance of the Earths Past series
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@badger
Let me know what you think of it when you read it 
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The Three Body Problem/Remembrance of the Earths Past series
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@fauxlaw
It has definitely died out in the major cities. The only people in my generation who had it were transplants from the country side. It seems like regional accents are just dying in general in America. Even when I go to rural areas it’s not very common for young people to have even a mild accent. The southern accent is stigmatized though so maybe other accents are stronger 
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The war on terror, turned inward?
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@Greyparrot
I more mean that every single liberal position has a myriad of bogus studies supporting it, and on most issues they can just appeal to what the "experts" are saying. On top of this, the media uncritically accepts everything that may paint liberal policies in a favorable light. Wading through the overwhelming sophistry is really hard
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The war on terror, turned inward?
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@bmdrocks21
Man, liberals have no idea how lucky they are to have the institutions in the bag for them. Frankly it’s a miracle that the right is even remotely competitive 
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The Three Body Problem/Remembrance of the Earths Past series
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@badger
Lol I have a weird obsession with ants so I actually liked that part. One time in middle school this girl who I thought had a crush on me saw me checking out a book on ants at the library and never talked to me again lol 

I really enjoyed the second book. I think some people didn’t, though. It’s definitely different than the first one for sure 
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What causes politics?
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@badger
No way. THE badger! 

I find you can always put anti-immigration thinking with conservative Christianity also. I mean there's something going on there right.
Yes exactly! I used to think that people were complete sheep for just going along with their political parties positions on stuff (and I still think this to some extent) but certain beliefs really are correlated and I still don’t understand why. Right leaning and left leaning people also go to different restaurants, tend to cluster in different hobbies…I think that these are just personality types and politics is just a part of that 

I remember you writing stuff about watching your old neighborhood disappear, be overtaken completely by the Chinese or something lol. That'd give anyone the politics. I reckon Australians must have their own big existential thing about the Chinese, same thing. That's just a dam ready to to burst, right? Or that's the sort of thinking anyway. Fuck it, I have nightmares sometimes about those gobblydegook death march bastards joke joke lol. I dunno thett, but good to see you anyway buddy.
A lot of politics comes from resentment, yeah. My entire 2016-2018 era was pure resentment at all the “woke” stuff lol I kinda cringe at some of the things I said back then. I’m still anti immigration, America first, etc but yeah. Now I just think of politics as a religion for a lot of people frankly 

Good to see you too!!! How are things over there?? I’ve heard the covid lockdowns are crazy but don’t know if it’s true 

What I've been thinking about lately, is a sort of padded room politics. A politics of the agey where there's no sharp edges anymore, everything's been rounded off by experience of it, nothing can hurt me anymore.
I am basically feeling the same way too. I think getting older and more secure is a part of it but idk
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The Three Body Problem/Remembrance of the Earths Past series
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@fauxlaw
I want born and raised in Texas, and unfortunately the Texas accent died out a generation ago (at least where I live) so my speech is super boring and flat and sounds like my Californian parents. But some dialect stuff does survive like “y’all” or “don’t got” 
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The war on terror, turned inward?
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@coal
Excellent post. What do you make of all the statements put out by the intelligence agencies and government that white supremacist terrorism is the most pressing threat to the US? I see liberals make this point all the time, and they share statistics that, frankly, are not believable which show dozens of annual attacks. I can think of a handful of white supremacist terrorist attacks over the past decade (Dylann Roof, the 2018 synagogue shooting) so it definitely is a real thing but the numbers show that there have been 267 plots in the last half decade? Something sinister is going on with the counting here, but I don't know what 

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The Three Body Problem/Remembrance of the Earths Past series
Anyone read these books? I read them about two years ago and am fixing to reread them sometime later this year. I thought they were wonderful, although the third book was a bit messy. I actually liked the second book the most which is traditionally the weakest episode of a trilogy. If you haven't read them I would definitely recommend 
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Beekeeping AMA
Can European bees become Africanized on their own? One of my close friends kept bees for many years, and shortly before getting rid of them they had gotten far more aggressive than they were initially. I thought they had possibly been Africanized but didn't voice that because I don't actually know how the process works and didn't wanna sound stupid
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what are the coins?
I was looking at my profile because I forgot what my self description was, and I saw this little green coin looking icon with a number next to it. what is this??
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I am thett3 ama
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@Jasmine
why?
I don't know.
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Theweakeredge AMA - Reboot
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@Theweakeredge
Yes,
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Theweakeredge AMA - Reboot
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@Theweakeredge
That we should increase the number of immigrants to the USA 
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Theweakeredge AMA - Reboot
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@coal
It’s one of the great moral evils of our time. I really don’t know what else to say about it. The fact that it happens at all just makes me so depressed 
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Theweakeredge AMA - Reboot
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@coal
Yeah I would lean towards giving youth more rights, not less , though I don’t think I would go as far as you. Seems to me that we stifle people in America. Our views on alcohol are particularly insane. Lots of college kids die of alcohol poisoning because they have exactly zero experience with alcohol before coming into an environment where it’s everywhere 
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Theweakeredge AMA - Reboot
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@Theweakeredge
Debate me! 
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Theweakeredge AMA - Reboot
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@Theweakeredge
Again, you are either extremely bad at reading studies, or being dishonest. 
I’ll note that I have been consistently polite to you, even when you made obvious mistakes like not knowing how to read a graph. Please debate me on immigration! We will see who is good at reading studies lol 
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Theweakeredge AMA - Reboot
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@Theweakeredge
The transgenderism topic is getting boring, I’ll probably let you have the last word unless you say something I can’t resist going after lol. I saw you had a debate where you argued for more immigrants that your opponent forfeited. I haven’t debated in a long time but find myself with a greater deal of free time than usual and would take you up on that if you want 
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Theweakeredge AMA - Reboot
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@Theweakeredge
the light blue indicates "male children", and that has reached nearly 1800, in contrast, "female children" are marked in a tannish color and reach 1600. Clearly the unrepresentative graph doesn't agree with your conclusions. Also... this isn't a study... this is an anecdotal example as far as I can read - if you can find some other source that backs up your data then I'll accept the data. 
Ahh I can see the confusion now. This is a stacked area chart. It isn't that "male children" are at 1800, it is that all categories combined are at 1800. So female adolescents have risen to ~1100, male adolescents to about ~350, and the rest split by male and female children. This shows the growth over time, which primarily came from an exponential increase in female adolescents identifying as trans. This is not an anecdotal example, but rather is a summation of all youth referred to a gender clinic by the NHS, however I will grant you that it is not about the United States. Countries in the Anglosphere do typically share similar social and political trends, but I did some digging on the USA side. Here is a study of children who underwent rapid onset gender dysphoria, 83% of the children were girls: https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0202330 The methodology is not the greatest. It's more difficult to get information from America because unlike the UK, we don't have centralized records due to universal health care, however given what evidence we have I think it is safe to say that gender dysphoria is indeed on the rise among teenage girls!

 Hm? I'm curious to know - furthermore - you've completely dropped the point that there are nearly as many old people who are transgender, like, you've just brushed that aside - even though you asked for it. 
I didn't drop that point. I don't see how it supports your argument at all. You showed that we have data showing a remarkably consistent 0.5% percentage of the population born anywhere from the 1930s to 1996 identifies as transgender. Yet, studies of current teenagers show that this rate has quadrupled or sextupled to around 2 to 3%. How does that not prove that something unique is going on among the current crop of youth? Your argument that this increase is all due to the removal of discrimination is not soundly backed, particularly when in the same post you argue that the discrimination against transgendered people is so bad that it is the reason for the high suicide attempt rates.

While regret is possible, it is rare. Lack of access to affirming care has been shown to have more concrete risks.Another study looked at surgeons who offered gender affirming procedures. Looking at 46 surgeons who had worked with 22,725 patients, there were only 62 documented cases of regret (0.27%)."
This isn't a survey of transgendered people, it's a survey asking surgeons if their patients expressed regret to them. How would they even know if they regretted it, unless the patient told them immediately after the surgery? Moreover this is not relevant to the meat of our discussion, because the transgender mania did not really take off until around a decade ago. The people who got surgery prior to 2018 when the study was published would've been a part of the 0.5% background rate of transgenderism, not the 2-3% we see in current youth. The background rate people (who are overwhelmingly male) are a much trickier subject. Certainly, there is a distinct difference between elective treatment of a consenting adult and elective treatment of a child. Remember that you don't even believe that 18 year olds are adults capable of making complicated decisions, much less 13 year olds! We will absolutely 100% be seeing tons of people who regretted going on puberty blockers and opposite sex hormones as impressionable teenagers when they realize it caused them to be infertile, removed several inches off of their adult height, made them have a micropenis, etc. I would bet my life on that. Zero doubt.
 
This is why I find the whole thing so disgusting. These children are going to have permanent damage to their bodies because nobody is willing to say no.



Regarding the study - you are misrepresneting it - it is the suicidation of halocaust surviors AND WWII veterans - please do not misrepresent your own data like that - furthermore - it IS CERTAINLY not representative. Did you know that your study only measures 374 halocaust surivors? 
It isn't, actually. Re-read it. The abstract mentions WWII veterans, but the data is all about Holocaust survivors. True, it is not a representative sample. It is a sample of Holocaust survivors in psychiatric hospitals, so it actually selects for mentally ill people...and their attempted suicide rate is STILL lower than transgendered people. The common narrative, which I assume you accept, is that black people are oppressed in the United States, but their suicide rate is well below the rate for white Americans: https://sprc.org/scope/racial-ethnic-disparities Oppression simply is not a credible explanation for the mental health issues that transgender youth go through. There has to be another explanation. What do you think is going on?

Oh my god - no - you are quite literally ignoring everything I've said, cutting out swawthes of context, and not overall repeating yourself. The reason trangender people do that is to feel that their SEX matches what is percieved of their GENDER - because guess what? People judge them BASED ON THAT! Gender dysphoria is a reaction to people, it is not, however, a status that transgender people have neccessarily. I do not think you are arguing in good faith, if you are, you are quite.. well ignorant. At least very bad at reading studies. 
The point is that if gender is not inextricably linked with sex characteristics (women having a breasts, less body hair, etc) why is it so imperative to prevent children from going through puberty? If by your definition a tall, burly, hairy, deep voiced person with an adams apple and a penis can be a woman, so be it. Why prevent her from becoming that individual, then? This is significant because if gender IS inextricably linked with sex characteristics, which I believe that it is and I suspect that you do as well, transition is never going to work. No matter how hard you try, a man can never be made into a woman and vice versa. Our bodies are just too different, and denying that is sheer folly.
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Theweakeredge AMA - Reboot
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@Theweakeredge
What the actual hell man? This data CONTRADICTS YOUR ARGUMENT - the highest rate in this graph are adolescent boys - or should we say girls, and yes we should - because that graph identifying them by sex isn't very consistent with an epistemological position of expression. Furthermore, we've been talkin' about America - that's quite explicitly what my numbers have been referring to - that's what the previous study you presented was about, why the sudden shift to UK graphs? Also can you even source that graph? Because right now it has no data to actually support it. And... yes! Because that's exactly what it is! It's not just "more opened minds" i guess you could say-  now not as many people want to find and kill people for being trans! Cause ya know hate crimes! 
Check it again, it clearly shows that the increase is among girls. But you're right, the data came from this source, but unfortunately it was paywalled so I just linked the pretty picture instead: https://www.economist.com/international/2020/12/12/an-english-ruling-on-transgender-teens-could-have-global-repercussions
 
True, we have been talking about America but the UK seems to have much better data (probably due to the NHS), and social trends in both countries tend to line up. But sure, we can go back to the US, where we both agree that the rate of transgenderism among youth has skyrocketed. Here is an excerpt from the portion of the article I can see: 

"America had one gender clinic in 2007; now it has more than 50. Piecemeal evidence around the world suggests that three-quarters of children expressing gender dysphoria at such clinics are adolescent girls, whereas until recently it was roughly evenly split. An increasing number are also de-transitioning, choosing to revert to their previous gender. Unfortunately, if children have already begun a medical transition, including hormone treatment, it can leave them infertile and unable to have a full sex life." 

 you could try to compare the discrimination to today's other minorities, but the fact of the matter is that transgender people are discriminated more than ANY OTHER MINORITY TODAY -
Even if this were true, I was talking about historical groups. I just googled "Holocaust survivor suicide attempt rate" and found this: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16085786/ A group of people who literally witnessed their family members being sent away to camps where they were gassed to death and then thrown in ovens has a lower suicide attempt rate than transgendered people. There is simply no way that the discrimination against them is anywhere near comparable to what Jews went through in the Holocaust, so the explanation has to be something else. What do you think is going on?

You are not reading a single thing - GENDER and SEX are two different things - people go through transitioning to feel comfortable with their sex, to make their sex match their gender-  which I ALREADY EXPLAINED...What does the sky have to do with anything? Why are you using that specific example - its not any one individual experience ITS A WAY OF EXPERIENCING THINGS, just like gay people, I've explained it all to you - you repeating "I don't get it" when you've been dishonest in the same post really doesn't give me much hope that you actually are trying to understand. 
So is someone with a penis and a flat chest less of a woman than someone with breasts and a vagina?  I mean, if it is just a way of experiencing things why should we try to stop puberty...you can experience something regardless of gender, unless it is like childbirth or producing semen or something, in which case all the hormone therapy in the world can't make you do if it isn't a part of your sex. I promise you I am trying to understand. "A way of experiencing things" just seems super vague when you're saying this is why we should give hormonal therapy to children lol. It seems to me that you do indeed link gender with sex characteristics such as genitalia, traditional roles, etc

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The Destruction of Small Business
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@bmdrocks21
In high school, I worked at Pizza Hut starting at $7.25. After a year and a half when I left, I was still only making $8.65. The term “living wage” gets thrown around an awful lot, but honestly, do we expect businesses to be giving out living wages for flipping burgers?
yeah there is definitely a lot of truth to this. People don't want to admit that some labor really just isn't all that valuable. That said, I really truly don't think that raising the minimum wage to $10 or $11 would harm things that much. De-facto, this is the minimum wage for most people, by raising it we are just filling in the gaps
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The Destruction of Small Business
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@Vader
I agree, I think a $10-12 dollar minimum wage is reasonable enough. I would be fine with that deal

I think my issue with people staying home is that it enforces lazy habits. Sitting at home collecting checks never feels satisfying or good in anyway and you soon fall slum into laziness. Who knows, maybe they become too comfortable in the life they have and just collect checks. I was taught that hard work is good for you to become a better person.
Yeah we don't disagree then...the federal unemployment supplement was necessary when the government forced people out of work through lockdowns and such, but now that things have returned to normal its completely absurd that people can make more sitting at home than actually working. It needs to end
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Theweakeredge AMA - Reboot
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@Theweakeredge
Um... no -because the only DATA you've given has supported MY ARGUMENT, what data do you have to support that claim? 
The data that the amount of children identifying as trans has skyrocketed. It's hard for me to find exact data very quickly, but it appears the situation is even more profound in other western countries. Check out this data from the UK...the number has increased 10x in a decade: https://science.sciencemag.org/content/sci/361/6406/958/F1.large.jpg Are you really willing to argue that, actually, there's nothing going on here except more open minds?

BTW since you brought it up...why DO you think mental health problems are so prolific among trans people? I know you said oppression, but what is unique about this oppression in particular? Because oppressed groups historically did not have a 33-40% suicide attempt rate, I assure you. You know what group DOES historically attempt suicide at a high rate? Mentally ill teenage girls.

 gender is a way that your brain perceives and interprets data - a fundamental set in fact...The difference is that male-ness and female-ness are already abstract enough, so the only people who can really identify which is the way they perceive things is themself, same way as gay people only being able to identify their feelings - the mere fact that its more complicated doesn't mean its not valid.
This still is not a coherent definition. I'm not trying to be rude, but what does the way my brain interprets data such as the color of the sky have to do with my gender? Please be more specific. If you think male and female are abstract, vague concepts, then why are hormone blockers necessary? If someone with a penis, adams apple, and a deep voice claims to be a woman, how does surgically removing his penis make them more of a woman? If gender is a vague, undefinable concept that can only be ascertained through listening to what people say.

As for the last thing - whenever that system perpetuates poverty through ideology, heck yeah its indicative of the system.
How do you define poverty?
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Theweakeredge AMA - Reboot
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@Theweakeredge
But also... I have no access to the study - even if I were to grant that the methodology is good (which I can't confirm given only access to a news story and vague explanations) - it literally explains in your source how the conclusion you come to is definitely not supported by the data. And again, this is assuming your study is valid. As for the disproportionate level of mental health emergencies that trans people go through? Well no duh - these people are literally oppressed on a daily basis, told that their identity doesn't exist, and that their existence is a "mental illness", yeah, no freaken' duh they have higher rates of suicide.,
I didn't bring up the rate of suicide/mental health problems. While I personally believe that this is very strong evidence of underlying mental illness (oppressed groups historically don't have nearly the attempted suicide rate trans people do) I find it extremely distasteful to use as an argument, and the way a lot of right leaning people talk about it comes across as extremely unsympathetic to say the least.

We agree that the current youth are far, far more likely to identify as transgender than older cohorts, including people who are only in their mid twenties. The social contagion theory is that this is a social trend, and not a deep underlying and unchangeable identity. This is made more credible by observations of who identifies as transgender: the current increase is mostly being driven by teenage girls, when historically gender dysphoria was found almost exclusively in males. All of the data we have is highly suggestive of the social contagion theory. Your theory is that teenagers and younger, who you think are close to a decade away from being full adults, are NOT susceptible to social trends and that the current increase in transgenderism is driven by...what exactly? Is it really just acceptance? because you just argued these people are so oppressed that it explains other mental health problems they may have so it doesn't seem like you think the current youth environment is all that accepting

the basics are that gender identity is a neurological connection between how you perceives things and your experience (how data is input, and how you interpret that data as a human) 
This doesn't mean anything, though. I'm not being disingenuous, I just genuinely don't understand what you are even saying. My experience is that I like cookies, does that have any relation to my gender identity? 

If it's just what people say....why should we block puberty? I mean, if someone with functioning breasts and a uterus says they are a man, who are you to tell them differently, by your own definition? Yet, your support for "Gender affirming care" (read: hormone therapy and surgery) highly suggests that you do not personally define gender as something as vague as you describe, but in fact associate it with genitalia and secondary sex characteristics. Which leads us right back to the real question, which is what's the definition of gender? 

Um... because despite the fact that we aren't in repression - there are still millions in poverty, regardless, its about the principle of the matter - you shouldn't have to pay for things you need to live. "If it ain't broken don't fix it" is certainly a nice expression, it does delay progress though. 
Poverty is relative, though. Things you view as necessities, such as electricity, are things your ancestors went thousands of years without. It is vanishingly rare for someone to starve to death in the United States. You could probably find one or two edge cases, but even those typically have extenuating circumstances. Living standards have risen so much that the lifestyle of todays poor would be considered middle class (at least) in any other period of history. The modal dwelling for thousands of years was a single room cottage, and typical families would spend around 1/3rd to 1/2 of their income on food. 

To be clear, that doesn't mean I don't want to help poor people. But I hardly see how the existence of inequality in and of itself is an indictment of the system. Do you think that is where our fundamental disagreement lies?
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@Theweakeredge
though more specifically to increase the density of educated people in the US. So, I would just say it's a case-by-case basis, same as it is now. 
Fair enough, but I am still having trouble visualizing the world you want. What are a few changes that should be made? 

though - it actually isn't by much - where 0.7% of adults identify as transgender between the ages of 18-24, 05% of people over the age of 65% identity as trans - like - you do realize that this is the exact argument had against gay people right? The comparison is blinding with how obvious it is. 
You just accidentally proved my point. This article is from 2016. People who were 18-24 in 2016 are people in my cohort, who were adults before this craze took hold. Transgender identification is far, far higher among current teens. Here's a concurrent 2016 study that found 3% of high schoolers identify as trans or nonconforming: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2018/02/05/more-u-s-teens-identify-transgender-survey-finds/306357002/


These numbers are four to six times the background rate of gender dysphoria observed in other age cohorts. Moreover, it tends to cluster within friend groups: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUPHqTkL5Nw There is definitely something going on, what do you think it is?

And this is a big question that a lot of cis people have, and the answer is simple, what defines or distinguishes gender is your experience, unless you have a specific way of measuring neurologic connections with regard to interpreting data, it is literally the only way you can distinguish, so you know how you do that? You just ask the individual, its the same thing as being straight or gay. 
I mean being gay seems pretty objective. You are attracted to your same sex. But you are failing to identify what even defines gender. If it's just what someone says why do we need to give people puberty blockers . If it is all just what people identify as, and an adult man can have functioning breasts, why do we need to block puberty?

Though the confusion is understandable you being an admitted bigot isn't - that's just being a dick.
I don't care. I view this as incredibly destructive and I'm willing to be called whatever names necessary to push back on it.

Um... you do realize that you need a job to pay for.... anything? Right? Like, do you think that if these workers COULD get a better job they wouldn't? Like what the hell? People HAVE to pay for rent, for food, for water, for electricity, all of the above - of course they agree - a lot of times its the only work they can find!
Yeah, and I don't have a problem with that. If we ever get to a point where there simply aren't jobs to be had (such as a great depression situation, or early on in the pandemic) the government should step in to help people, but if times are normal and people can get a job what is morally wrong with expecting them to pay their own way? Businesses should of course be regulated to provide fair wages. Nothing is free. The men fixing utility lines and whatnot have to be paid from somewhere, the only question is if it's going to be through a corporation or through the government. I simply don't see the moral obligation I have to take care of someone who doesn't want to work
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@Theweakeredge
The age of majority should be 21.... that's all. Pretty easy it is.
That doesn’t seem very simple to me, though. Buying tobacco, alcohol, and handguns are pretty much the only things I can think of in our society that 18 year olds can’t do. So at the very least a lot of those laws need to change, and If 18-20 year olds are still children should high school be extended? 

you would be ostracized from all of your friends, family, work, etc- if you came out as trans - nowadays, that happens much less- hince more trans people in the public eye.
Then why is there not a corresponding increase in adults identifying as trans? Where are all the trans 40 and 50 year olds who now feel safe to come out? If there’s no social contagion and this is indeed something that is inborn why is the rapid increase only seen in impressionable teenagers? 
 

having a different gender identity than what you were assigned at birth is a neurological, psychological, and concrete scientific possibility.
What defines gender identity, though. What makes a “man” and a “woman” if not biology? I guess you’d rely on traditional gender roles but in the past people who fell outside of those weren’t viewed as the opposite sex, they were just viewed as different. This seems a lot healthier than giving people untested drugs that delay puberty 

To call a trans identity a "mental illness" is transphobic btw - like - almost definitionally so. 
I don’t care. 

 but even as their product increases their profit annually - the workers get metaphorically shafted with the exact same wages - and in some instances - this happens with people who don't make nearly enough money to live. 
This is where you lose me. I hardly see how getting paid the wage you agreed upon for the work you
Agreed to do is being “shafted.” Certainly corporations don’t really care about their employees but at some point they, and their competitors, grow profitable enough that if they don’t increase wages employees will leave. Our living standards are much higher than they were in the past. They simply are. Where’s the exploitation?
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@Theweakeredge
eh - 25 is over-generalized, but regardless, my point was that its core functions are done - technically speaking, the epigenetics of your brain are always developing, I'm talking about the stability of your frontal cortex, and that happens at 21
How do you think society should change due to this? 

I am extremely aware: its the intrinsic discomfort and experiential pain of having your sex not match your gender.
But what causes that? In particular what causes the rapid proliferation of this identity, almost exclusively among young females? https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/culture-mind-and-brain/201811/why-is-transgender-identity-the-rise-among-teens%3famp

I have to be honest with you: as someone who grew up before all of this, its just incredibly obvious to me that this is mental illness, and “gender affirming care” that prevents a boy from becoming a man or a girl from becoming a woman is horrible. But this is your ama so I’m trying not to preach! 

Profit motive perpeautates poverty, and it has for hundreds of other economics systems
Does it? Why do you think this? Just looking around at recent economic history it sure doesn’t look like capitalism perpetuates poverty 
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@Theweakeredge
Its mostly because you frontal cortex isn't finished developing - a lot of traumatic events can still permanently affect your brain, as well as alcohol and all of that - that's the main argument. Its the same reason why you shouldn't be able to drink till' your 21. 
The prefrontal cortex doesn’t stop growing until 25 or so, though. In that sense 21 seems as arbitrary as 18. What do you think the age should be? And how should society be restructured if we accept this? For example, should high school be extended until age 21 

So you know how transgender people get hormone therapy or even treatment in general? Yeah that
What do you think causes gender dysphoria? 

Because fundamentally speaking, you shouldn't have to pay for stuff you need to live - I believe that to be a right, to live, not a privilege.
Are you at all sympathetic to the argument that the profit motive is what allows these things to exist in the first place, and/or makes them better?

Personally I’m wary of outsourcing very much industry at all to the government. The private sector + regulation seems to be the best model for a lot of stuff imo. What’s your ideal economic system? 
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The Destruction of Small Business
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@Vader
The $15/hr is a negotiating tactic. It’s a starting point, the real goal is to get it to around $10-$12 an hour. This wouldn’t hurt businesses because the vast majority pay around that for their lowest wages. Raising the minimum wage to $11 an hour or so wouldn’t break the bank of businesses but it would provide some much needed relief for people who are particularly exploitable or made particularly bad employment deals. Very few people work for the federal minimum wage, the de facto minimum wage in most places is already around $10. 

I don’t think people really grasp how pathetically small $7.25 is. It’s hard for me to even imagine what kind of work you’d be willing to pay for that doesn’t return you more than a McDonald’s combo meal in marginal utility. I don’t think anyone should have to work for those kinds of wages in such a rich country. 
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Does CRT have a leg standing?
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@oromagi
The answer to the question is obviously NO for the same reason that geocentrism can't sue Galileo for damages: only people and never ideas have standing before the law.  The question itself demonstrates ignorance regarding the subject and its conditional.

CRITICAL RACE THEORY (CRT) is "an academic movement of civil-rights scholars and activists in the United States who seek to critically examine the law as it intersects with issues of race and to challenge mainstream liberal approaches to racial justice"

CRT is loosely unified by two common themes:
  1. First, that white supremacy (societal racism) exists and maintains power through the law
  2. Second, that transforming the relationship between law and racial power, and also achieving racial emancipation and anti-subordination more broadly, are possible.
In law, STANDING or locus standi is the ability of a party to demonstrate to the court sufficient connection to and harm from the law or action challenged to support that party's participation in the case. In United States law, the Supreme Court has stated, "In essence the question of standing is whether the litigant is entitled to have the court decide the merits of the dispute or of particular issues."

There are a number of requirements that a plaintiff must establish to have standing before a federal court.

  1. Injury-in-fact: The plaintiff must have suffered or imminently will suffer injury—an invasion of a legally protected interest that is (a) concrete and particularized, and (b) actual or imminent (that is, neither conjectural nor hypothetical; not abstract).  The injury can be either economic, non-economic, or both.
  2. Causation: There must be a causal connection between the injury and the conduct complained of, so that the injury is fairly traceable to the challenged action of the defendant and not the result of the independent action of some third party who is not before the court.
  3. Redressability: It must be likely, as opposed to merely speculative, that a favorable court decision will redress the injury.
Here in America we neither put ideas on trial nor recognize the capacity of any idea to suffer concrete injury.

  • Fauxlaw argues that a theory must proven true before it may claim injury before a court but that's quite wrong-headed, ideas may not claim standing.
  • Fauxlaw further argues that "what the average person may think, and act upon, is not evidence of systemic, or CRT," apparently ignorant of the fact that CRT makes no claims regarding the average person and is, by definition, exclusively interested in the law and legal institutions. 
serious question, why do you waste time writing posts like this? The OP was quite clearly using the word "standing" in a different context...you just come off as super pedantic lol
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Why do I get so angry?
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@Theweakeredge
 Sometimes a voice doubting your conclusions, actually always, is necessary, but those voices which attack your character as a reason for your arguments being wrong is no help at all. It fundamentally hinders my ability to reason, as I have to take the time to address inherently irrational rebuttals.
You can get over this by realizing that your opinion doesn't matter. Not yours specifically, nobodies political opinions matter unless you have a net worth in the nine figures, are particularly well connected, are an actual politician, or work a very specific job like being a pundit on the news. Your arguments have nothing to do with your character, and this is a debate site so you should expect to be challenged and take some L's

I've known Coal for a very long time and that's just how he talks lol...dont take it personally. He's a good guy. RM I don't really have a good read on, but his posting style doesnt come off as condescending to me. You probably are a little unduly insecure if he makes you rage, at the end of the day this site is all in good fun
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Theweakeredge AMA - Reboot
  • Free-Utilities
I'm a homeowner and have always found utility prices really reasonable. I get power for a month for the cost of a nice restaurant meal, or so. It seems like a "if it aint broke dont fix it" type situation to me, but maybe  I am just spoiled. why do you think this?
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  • Gender-Affirming Healthcare 
what does this mean?
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