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@Best.Korea
Still lower life expectancy than Japan. I guess even the best of isislam isnt best."First off, it's important to focus on the facts, not just a comparison of life expectancy. While Japan may have a higher life expectancy, it doesn't mean that Islamic teachings or Muslim-majority countries are inherently flawed. Life expectancy is influenced by various factors, including healthcare systems, wealth distribution, social policies, and even historical context. Every country has its unique challenges and strengths, and simply comparing them doesn't reveal the whole picture.it seems like you're putting more effort into criticizing rather than understanding. When you continuously make errors, it might show you're not fully engaged with the subject at hand, which is the real issue. If you want to truly understand something, you have to approach it with the right mindset.And lastly, so what if Japan has a high life expectancy? It doesn't negate the fact that Islam, like any belief system, has its values based on principles of justice, compassion, and respect. Every culture, including Japan's, has its own struggles, even with the best of things. Let’s not ignore the complexities."This way, you're encouraging a more balanced perspective and pointing out that looking beyond surface-level comparisons is essential to understanding any topic deeply.Islam offers clear, divine guidance for all aspects of life, whereas Japanese culture, though rich in tradition, lacks the same level of universal moral clarity and spiritual purpose.
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@Best.Korea
Well, alayh said it is. I guess alayh lied.
The claim that the Qur'an promises that women who cover themselves will not be raped is a misconception and not supported by any specific verse in the Qur'an. There is no verse in the Qur'an that states women will not be raped if they wear a hijab or cover themselves.
However, there is a verse in the Qur'an that encourages modesty, both for men and women. In Surah An-Nur (24:31), it is mentioned that women should lower their gaze and guard their modesty:
“And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and guard their private parts and not to display their adornment except that which [ordinarily] appears thereof and to wrap [a portion of] their headcovers over their chests and not to display their adornment except to their husbands, their fathers, their sons..." (Qur'an 24:31)
Similarly, the verse emphasizes the importance of modesty for men as well:
“Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their private parts.” (Qur'an 24:30)
The idea behind these teachings is to encourage modesty and self-respect, which can help maintain a respectful and dignified society. However, it is important to understand that no Islamic text guarantees immunity from violence, and rape or assault is never justified, regardless of what someone wears.
Rape is a grave sin in Islam, and the Qur'an strongly condemns injustice, oppression, and the violation of human rights. The onus of responsibility lies on the perpetrator, not the victim.
However, there is a verse in the Qur'an that encourages modesty, both for men and women. In Surah An-Nur (24:31), it is mentioned that women should lower their gaze and guard their modesty:
“And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and guard their private parts and not to display their adornment except that which [ordinarily] appears thereof and to wrap [a portion of] their headcovers over their chests and not to display their adornment except to their husbands, their fathers, their sons..." (Qur'an 24:31)
Similarly, the verse emphasizes the importance of modesty for men as well:
“Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their private parts.” (Qur'an 24:30)
The idea behind these teachings is to encourage modesty and self-respect, which can help maintain a respectful and dignified society. However, it is important to understand that no Islamic text guarantees immunity from violence, and rape or assault is never justified, regardless of what someone wears.
Rape is a grave sin in Islam, and the Qur'an strongly condemns injustice, oppression, and the violation of human rights. The onus of responsibility lies on the perpetrator, not the victim.
also what is quran?
The Qur'an is the holy book of Islam, the literal word of Allah (God) as revealed to the Prophet Muhammad (ﷺ) through the angel Jibril (Gabriel). It serves as a guide for all aspects of life, offering instructions on worship, morality, law, and guidance for personal conduct.
just so u know.
You’ve misunderstood quite a lot here. The Qur'an does not make any promise that women who cover themselves will not be raped. This is a misconception. The actual teachings encourage modesty for both men and women, and the focus is on mutual respect, not a guarantee of protection from harm.
It is not about using covering as a shield against violence. No verse in the Qur'an places the blame on the victim or justifies any form of assault, and rape, in particular, is considered a grave sin. The responsibility lies solely with the perpetrator, not the victim.
If you're misunderstanding these key aspects, it’s clear that your understanding of the teachings is misguided. The Qur'an, in its true essence, promotes respect and justice, not the distorted view you have. You’re not getting the full picture here.
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@Best.Korea
Well, yeah, muslim countries are way worse by life expectancy.
"While it's true that some Muslim-majority countries face challenges like political instability and poverty, it's crucial not to generalize. Life expectancy can be influenced by a wide range of factors, including healthcare systems, access to resources, infrastructure, and political stability—none of which are directly tied to religion. For instance, there are Muslim-majority countries like Qatar, the UAE, and Kuwait with high life expectancy rates due to better healthcare and wealth distribution. It's essential to look at the broader picture rather than simply comparing life expectancy in a blanket way."
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@Best.Korea
I am writing alhah correctly. Its my label for god of qyuran.
"If you want to use 'alhah' as your label, that's your choice. But it's important to understand that when discussing religious texts and beliefs, accuracy in representing names and terms is crucial. 'Allah' is the proper term in the Qur'an, and misrepresenting it only leads to confusion. If you're claiming to understand and critique Islamic texts, it’s essential to be respectful and accurate in how you engage with them, including the use of correct terminology."
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@Best.Korea
"I understand that your view might come from personal experiences where you encountered Muslims who didn't follow their faith properly, which might have led to negative impressions. But it’s important to remember that those individuals' actions don’t reflect the true teachings of Islam. What you've experienced is a distortion, not the essence of the religion itself. Islam’s core principles advocate for peace, respect, and understanding, and judging the entire religion based on a few people's failure to practice it properly isn't fair to the faith as a whole."
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@Best.Korea
I dont really plan to explain to you how guessing game works. qyuran also said that women who cover themselves wont be raped. alahb is the best of liars.
Your skepticism about the Qur'an's teachings is understandable, but dismissing the depth and relevance of its message without deeper exploration only overlooks its profound wisdom. The Qur'an's insights on universal truths—like ethics, science, and social justice—are too consistent and profound to be simply dismissed as coincidence. The idea that an isolated desert dweller could not have known such things is in fact one of the most compelling reasons to consider that the teachings came from beyond human knowledge, as many of the truths it revealed align with modern discoveries.
As for the claim about women covering themselves, it's not about a simple cause-effect relationship; it's about the deeper context of respect, dignity, and modesty, which is emphasized for both men and women. The Qur'an encourages a society where respect for one another leads to the reduction of harm, not a simplistic view of protection.
In every conversation about faith, it's not about proving someone wrong, but about inviting a deeper understanding—are we willing to seek the truth, no matter how uncomfortable it may seem at first?
As for the claim about women covering themselves, it's not about a simple cause-effect relationship; it's about the deeper context of respect, dignity, and modesty, which is emphasized for both men and women. The Qur'an encourages a society where respect for one another leads to the reduction of harm, not a simplistic view of protection.
In every conversation about faith, it's not about proving someone wrong, but about inviting a deeper understanding—are we willing to seek the truth, no matter how uncomfortable it may seem at first?
The idea that the Qur'an’s teachings on modesty directly result in a reduction of violence like rape is often misunderstood. It is important to note that modesty, as prescribed in the Qur'an, is not a simple "cause and effect" statement like "covering equals no rape," but rather a part of a broader societal framework that encourages respect and protection of individual dignity.
Countries with high rates of modest dress and an emphasis on respect for women—such as in some conservative Muslim societies—do experience lower rates of sexual violence compared to countries with looser cultural norms regarding modesty. For instance, some studies have shown that in countries like Saudi Arabia, where modest dress is part of the cultural and legal fabric, the reported incidents of sexual assault and harassment are lower than in Western countries. However, this does not imply that modesty alone eliminates the issue; it is the broader cultural and legal context that reinforces mutual respect and accountability.
On the other hand, the claim that "rape is zero in Muslim countries" is not entirely accurate. It’s a complicated issue shaped by various factors like law enforcement, social norms, and reporting mechanisms, not just by dress codes. There are, of course, instances of sexual violence in many societies, including Muslim-majority countries, but these societies often place a significant emphasis on moral and legal accountability to deter such crimes.
Ultimately, the key is not about proving a direct link between clothing and rape prevention, but understanding that the Qur'an and Islamic teachings emphasize broader values of respect, accountability, and the protection of personal dignity—values that, when truly upheld, reduce harm in society.
Countries with high rates of modest dress and an emphasis on respect for women—such as in some conservative Muslim societies—do experience lower rates of sexual violence compared to countries with looser cultural norms regarding modesty. For instance, some studies have shown that in countries like Saudi Arabia, where modest dress is part of the cultural and legal fabric, the reported incidents of sexual assault and harassment are lower than in Western countries. However, this does not imply that modesty alone eliminates the issue; it is the broader cultural and legal context that reinforces mutual respect and accountability.
On the other hand, the claim that "rape is zero in Muslim countries" is not entirely accurate. It’s a complicated issue shaped by various factors like law enforcement, social norms, and reporting mechanisms, not just by dress codes. There are, of course, instances of sexual violence in many societies, including Muslim-majority countries, but these societies often place a significant emphasis on moral and legal accountability to deter such crimes.
Ultimately, the key is not about proving a direct link between clothing and rape prevention, but understanding that the Qur'an and Islamic teachings emphasize broader values of respect, accountability, and the protection of personal dignity—values that, when truly upheld, reduce harm in society.
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@Best.Korea
No, alhah sounds much better, so I will stick with alhah.
"Actually, you’re the one who was claiming that the Islamic texts call names of atheists and others. But now you're having trouble even writing 'Allah' correctly. It’s important to approach these discussions with consistency and respect, especially when we’re talking about something as profound as religious teachings. If you’re going to critique the faith, make sure to do so with accuracy and clarity, without jumping between points."
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@Best.Korea
Before anything else, I want to make it clear: If you're truly seeking the truth, then I'll give it to you—all of it, in its entirety, without holding anything back. But it all starts with your willingness to accept it for what it truly is. The truth isn’t always easy, but it’s always real, and it’s the foundation on which understanding can grow.
When you’re ready, I’m here to walk you through it, step by step. There’s so much more to see when we look beyond surface-level assumptions and open ourselves to the deeper, more meaningful perspectives.
Let’s approach this with hearts open and minds clear—because only then will we be able to fully appreciate the bigger picture.
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@Best.Korea
And you think bullying doesnt exist in alah-ila schools?Even with high suicide rates, Japan's life expectancy is higher than in any muslim country, by far. Besides, murder and torture is the worst form of violence. Murders and tortures are very common in muslim countries. Muslims promoted both male and female genital mutilation, as well as constantly killing not just non-muslims, but even other muslims. Muslims promote hate towards gays and trans.
1. Japan vs. Muslim-majority countries comparison:
Yes, Japan faces societal challenges, including bullying, mental health crises, and a high suicide rate. But these issues don’t reflect the nature of the society itself or its broader teachings. Japan is a highly developed country with a different set of social and cultural issues, but that doesn’t mean the entire system is flawed.
Now, comparing life expectancy is misleading without understanding the context. High life expectancy in Japan is due to multiple factors: healthcare system, diet, education, social structure, and low levels of violence. Muslim-majority countries, on the other hand, have a range of socio-economic conditions, some of which face challenges like poverty, political instability, and war, which significantly impact overall health metrics.
2. Violence in Muslim countries:
The violence you mention—murder, torture, mutilation—is not promoted by Islam. Islam condemns unjust violence and emphasizes justice and mercy. The true teachings of Islam reject such practices. The misuse of religion by individuals or political groups doesn’t reflect the core message of Islam. Here's what the Qur'an says:
“Do not kill the soul which Allah has forbidden, except by right...” (Qur'an 17:33)
So, Islam does not promote violence. Cultural practices like genital mutilation or inter-group violence are misinterpretations and distortions of religion, influenced by tribal customs or political motives, not the religion itself.
3. On LGBT rights:
The stance on homosexuality in Islam is often misunderstood. While Islamic teachings may not support same-sex marriage, it doesn’t justify hate or violence against individuals. The Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) taught mercy and kindness even to those who disagreed with his beliefs. In fact, he forgave those who opposed him, rather than resorting to violence.
4. Rewriting misconceptions:
In reality, Muslim-majority countries span a wide spectrum of cultures, political systems, and religious practices, much like any other religion or group. The actions of extremists or misguided individuals should not define an entire religion.
In conclusion:
The problems you point out in Muslim-majority countries—such as violence, hatred, or extremism—are not inherent to Islam. These actions often arise due to misinterpretations of religious texts or cultural practices that are not part of the true message of Islam. The teachings of Islam emphasize peace, justice, kindness, and mercy. Violence and hatred are antithetical to these teachings, and it is wrong to blame the religion for what individuals may do in its name. Just as you cannot blame the teachings of science for its misuse in weapons, you cannot blame Islam for the actions of extremists or those who fail to understand its true message.
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If you're evaluating both the people who ignore the message and those who embody it, then the real measure should be the teachings themselvesSo we should just ignore that alhah failed at teaching?Okay.Maybe alah quranit teachings are good? No, I read her alalhy teachings. They are very bad and psychopathic. I would never torture anyone eternally in a fire, especially not for being an atheist who just denies the psychopathic message of quranany.
First, let’s get some things clear.
It’s Allah (not "alhah")—the Creator, Sustainer, and the Merciful.
Secondly, calling Allah’s message "psychopathic" is an unfair and uninformed interpretation.
The Qur'an does not promote cruelty or psychopathy. In fact, it speaks extensively about justice, mercy, and forgiveness. The punishment of Hell is not arbitrary or cruel; it is a consequence for actions and choices made by individuals. It is important to understand that the punishment is linked to free will and accountability, not some unjust act. The Qur'an makes it clear:
“Indeed, Allah does not do injustice, even as much as an atom's weight; while people do injustice to themselves.” (Qur’an 4:40)
You also seem to misunderstand the concept of eternal punishment.
The Qur'an mentions that those who choose to reject faith despite having received the message in clear terms will face consequences, but these are never imposed lightly. The final judgment is in Allah’s hands, and no one can escape His justice. The consequences are tied to one's rejection of the truth after being presented with it, not simply for disbelief. Moreover, the Qur'an highlights the opportunities for repentance and forgiveness:
“Say, 'O My servants who have harmed yourselves by your own actions, do not despair of Allah’s mercy. Allah forgives all sins: He is truly the Most Forgiving, the Most Merciful.'” (Qur'an 39:53)
As for calling the teachings of the Qur'an "bad"—that's a serious accusation.
The teachings of the Qur'an focus on personal growth, justice, mercy, and social responsibility. It teaches respect for all life, care for the poor and oppressed, and guidance on how to live in harmony with others. If you think the message is psychopathic, maybe it’s worth revisiting the text with an open mind and seeking out scholars who can offer you a deeper understanding.
The Qur'an calls for justice, but also for mercy:
“And act justly; that is closer to righteousness.” (Qur'an 5:8)
“If you forgive, then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.” (Qur'an 64:14)
It’s also important to reflect on the difference between the message and the actions of individuals.
If someone misrepresents Islam, that doesn’t reflect the truth of the teachings. It's like blaming a book for the actions of someone who misinterprets it. The core message of Islam, like that of many religions, is to encourage personal responsibility, compassion, and moral integrity.
don’t mistake the failure of individuals to live up to a higher standard as a failure of the teachings themselves. If you truly seek understanding, approach the message with the intention of learning, not just rejecting. The real test isn’t whether you disagree with a concept; it’s whether you’ve genuinely understood it before making a judgment.
the message of the Qur’an is not about arbitrary punishment or cruelty.
You’re speaking about Hell, but you’re misunderstanding the purpose and reasoning behind it. The Qur’an speaks about the consequences of rejecting the truth after being presented with clear guidance:
“And We have certainly sent to every nation a messenger, saying, ‘Worship Allah and avoid false gods.’ And among them were those whom Allah guided, and among them were those upon whom error was inevitable. So travel through the land and see how was the end of those who denied.” (Qur'an 16:36)
The punishment for disbelief is not because of the simple denial of a concept—it is for willfully rejecting the truth after it has been made clear. This is a core principle of justice in Islam, and is not an act of cruelty; it is the natural consequence of a person's choices.
Now, about the idea of eternal punishment:
It is important to understand that Hell is not solely for atheists—it’s for those who reject the truth after it’s been fully and clearly conveyed to them, after they had the opportunity to accept it. The Qur'an doesn’t say that anyone who doesn't believe in God is automatically condemned; it’s about whether they have received the message and knowingly turned away from it:
“Indeed, those who believe and those who are Jews or Christians or Sabeans—whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day and does righteousness—will have their reward with their Lord, and no fear will there be concerning them, nor will they grieve.” (Qur'an 2:62)
This shows that the message is about truth, righteousness, and ultimately choosing to act upon that truth. Not just disbelief, but the rejection of guidance after receiving it.
Finally, let me leave you with something undeniable:
The Qur'an is a book that holds itself accountable. Allah says:
“Indeed, this Qur’an guides to that which is most suitable...” (Qur'an 17:9)
If the message was wrong or harmful, then the Qur’an itself would not be guiding to that which is best, but instead to harm and destruction. But it doesn’t. The teachings emphasize justice, compassion, mercy, and the betterment of humanity.
So, if you are going to judge Islam, do so by the actual teachings—not the misrepresentations or actions of individuals who fail to embody them. It is a clear and undeniable truth that the Qur’an’s teachings guide to a righteous life, and any cruelty or violence committed by individuals is due to their misuse or misinterpretation of the teachings, not the teachings themselves.
In conclusion, if you are truly seeking the truth, ask yourself: Have you really understood the message of the Qur'an? The real test is not whether you disagree with it, but whether you’ve understood it and evaluated it with an open heart and mind. There’s no denying that the Qur’an guides towards peace, justice, and righteousness when understood and practiced correctly
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@Best.Korea
You are not making any sense here. alahy either succeeded in making muslim group more peaceful than others or alahy failed. Or do you want to cherry pick only "decent" muslims from the group to prove that alahy succeeded? Well, there are less decent people in alahy group than in some other non-alahy groups, so alahy didnt increase amount of decency with teachings from his alahy God head
"The measure of success for any teacher isn't about the actions of those who choose to ignore the teachings, but rather how the core principles are intended to guide individuals."
Your argument assumes that if some individuals who identify with a faith don't adhere perfectly to its principles, then the faith itself is a failure. But this approach is flawed for several reasons.
- The Freedom of Choice: Islam, like all religions, grants individuals the freedom to choose their path. People are responsible for their own actions. The Qur'an states clearly:"Indeed, this Qur'an guides to that which is most suitable..." (Qur'an 17:9)The guidance is there. But some people choose not to follow it, or interpret it in a way that strays from its true purpose. That doesn’t reflect on the ability of the teacher (Allah) but rather on the responsibility of the student (human beings).
- The Role of Free Will: The Qur'an teaches that each individual is responsible for their choices:"And say, 'The truth is from your Lord. So whoever wills - let him believe; and whoever wills - let him disbelieve.'" (Qur'an 18:29)Allah has given us the capacity to choose our own paths. If a Muslim chooses violence or cruelty, it doesn’t mean Allah’s message has failed. The fault lies in the individual, not the divine guidance.
- The True Measure of a Teacher’s Success: A teacher imparts knowledge, but it is up to the students to embrace that knowledge. If we measure a teacher’s success only by the actions of students who refuse to learn, then we are ignoring the essence of what makes a teacher great: the ability to guide and provide knowledge. The Qur'an says:"Indeed, this Qur'an is a guidance for those who are conscious of Allah." (Qur'an 2:2)The success of a teacher is not measured by the number of students who fail to grasp the lesson, but by the clarity and truth of the lesson itself.
- The Strength of the Message: Just because a certain number of Muslims fail to follow the teachings in a peaceful way, that doesn't mean the teachings themselves are flawed. For instance, history has shown that many who fought for peace and justice throughout the world were inspired by Islamic principles, such as the Prophet Muhammad’s (ﷺ) example of forgiveness and mercy. His life was filled with instances where he showed patience and kindness, even to those who opposed him. True Muslims strive to embody these qualities, even if not all who call themselves Muslim do.
- On Decency Across Faiths: The concept of peace and decency is not exclusive to any one group. Every community has its share of individuals who fail to embody the ideals they claim to follow. It is also important to acknowledge that Islam teaches mercy, justice, and compassion above all else. So, rather than comparing Muslims to non-Muslims in a contest of decency, let’s look at what the teachings of Islam say about compassion:"And speak to people good [words]..." (Qur'an 2:83)The core teachings of Islam promote peace and kindness. If individuals do not act according to these teachings, that’s a reflection of their personal choices, not the failure of Allah's message.
In conclusion, the success of a teacher isn't solely judged by the behavior of students who choose to ignore the lesson. Allah's message is one of peace, and the failings of some individuals do not diminish the truth or the potential for positive change through that guidance. So instead of focusing on the actions of those who refuse to learn, we should focus on the message itself and the examples set by those who truly embody its teachings.
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@Best.Korea
this is just for u guys to think once, no other purpose. if anyone can answer, i'd gladly hear.
"How is it possible that someone living in an isolated desert over 1,400 years ago could have known universal truths?"
This is a profound question, and it’s worth exploring the context of the Qur'an to understand how its teachings transcend the time and place in which it was revealed.
- The Creation of the Universe (Surah Al-Anbiya 21:30)"Do not those who disbelieve see that the heavens and the earth were a closed-up mass, then We opened them out? And We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?"In this verse, the Qur'an describes the creation of the universe, which aligns with modern scientific theories about the Big Bang and the origin of life through water. How could an illiterate man in the 7th century have known such details, unless there was a divine source of knowledge?
- The Development of the Human Embryo (Surah Al-Mu’minun 23:13-14)"Then We made the sperm into a clot of congealed blood, then of that clot We made a lump, then We made out of that lump bones, and clothed the bones with flesh, and then We caused it to grow into another creation. So blessed be Allah, the best of creators."The detailed description of human embryonic development here, long before science could observe it under a microscope, points to knowledge that goes beyond the understanding of the time.
- The Expanding Universe (Surah Adh-Dhariyat 51:47)"And the heaven We constructed with strength, and indeed, We are [its] expander."This verse hints at the expanding universe—a concept only discovered in the 20th century by scientists like Edwin Hubble. The Qur'an speaks of an expanding universe long before modern science could confirm it.
- Mountains and Earth's Stability (Surah An-Naba 78:6-7)"Have We not made the earth as a bed, and the mountains as pegs?"This is often interpreted as a reference to the stabilizing effect mountains have on the earth’s crust. Modern geology explains that mountains help stabilize the earth's surface by acting like pegs in the ground. This knowledge could not have been known in a desert environment, and yet it was mentioned in the Qur'an.
These verses challenge the notion that someone living in the desert could only speak of local or limited knowledge. They speak to a greater truth that spans beyond their time and place. The accuracy of these teachings points to a source of knowledge that transcends human understanding and cannot be attributed to mere coincidence or historical context.
So, the question is not how someone in the desert could have known these things, but rather, how could someone in such circumstances have known them unless they were revealed by a higher power?
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@Best.Korea
Both. But those who embody islam arent good people either, so really, this is just failing either way.
well dear, If you're evaluating both the people who ignore the message and those who embody it, then the real measure should be the teachings themselves—and how well they align with principles of justice, peace, and compassion.
Islam, as taught by the Qur'an and the Prophet Muhammad (ﷺ), promotes peace, kindness, and justice—these values are central to the faith. The fact that some individuals may not embody these qualities doesn't invalidate the message itself. It's like saying a subject is flawed because a student doesn't study it correctly.
There are countless examples in Islamic history of individuals who embodied these principles, such as the Prophet Muhammad (ﷺ), who was known for his patience, kindness, and forgiveness, even towards his enemies.
So, if you evaluate Islam based on its pure teachings, you find that the message remains unfailingly good. The failure lies not in the message itself, but in the individuals who fail to live by it.
The Qur'an states:
“You have in the Messenger of Allah an excellent example.” (Qur'an 33:21)
And the Prophet Muhammad (ﷺ) demonstrated the best way of life through his actions. The message is clear; it's up to each individual to either accept or ignore it.
It’s important to recognize that no place is perfect, including Japan, which, while widely regarded for its peace and order, has its own challenges. Every society faces issues of inequality, violence, or injustice in some form. For example, Japan has dealt with issues like bullying in schools, a rise in mental health problems, and societal pressures that can lead to high suicide rates. These are serious issues that affect the quality of life, despite Japan's reputation for being peaceful.
Similarly, Islam’s message is not perfect because of individual flaws, but the teachings themselves—rooted in justice, kindness, and peace—are sound. The actions of followers who do not live up to these ideals do not reflect the faith itself, just as any imperfections in society, including Japan, do not negate the positive qualities it is known for.
In the end, no place or religion is free of challenges, but that doesn't diminish the inherent value of the core teachings—whether those of Islam or any other philosophy. So, the real question isn't about which place is most peaceful, but how closely any individual or society follows the ideals of peace, justice, and compassion.
Similarly, Islam’s message is not perfect because of individual flaws, but the teachings themselves—rooted in justice, kindness, and peace—are sound. The actions of followers who do not live up to these ideals do not reflect the faith itself, just as any imperfections in society, including Japan, do not negate the positive qualities it is known for.
In the end, no place or religion is free of challenges, but that doesn't diminish the inherent value of the core teachings—whether those of Islam or any other philosophy. So, the real question isn't about which place is most peaceful, but how closely any individual or society follows the ideals of peace, justice, and compassion.
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@Best.Korea
The definition of a teacher is someone who makes others learn something. Since alahs failed to teach muslims to be more peaceful than others, alahs is a failed teacher by definition.
Judging a teacher by students who refuse to learn is not a fair measure of the teacher's ability. A true teacher provides the best possible guidance, but the student's willingness to learn plays a significant role in their understanding.
Allah has provided the most complete guidance through the Qur'an and the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad (ﷺ), and it is up to each individual to choose whether or not to follow that guidance. The fact that some Muslims fail to act peacefully does not reflect Allah’s failure, but rather their failure to adhere to His teachings.
The Qur'an and Hadith are filled with guidance on peace, compassion, and justice:
“And speak to people kindly.” (Qur'an 2:83)“The strong person is not the one who can overpower others, but the one who controls himself when angry.” (Sahih al-Bukhari)
The Prophet Muhammad (ﷺ) showed the greatest example of peace and patience, despite facing immense hardship. So, Allah is not a failed teacher; rather, human beings sometimes fail to embody His message.
To suggest that a teacher is at fault because some students choose not to learn is to misunderstand the dynamics of education and personal responsibility. Allah’s guidance is clear—whether or not it is followed is another matter entirely.
where exactly did u get this definition from?
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@Stephen
Well are the "individuals" Muslim?
A Muslim is someone who submits to the will of Allah and follows the teachings of Islam, believing in the oneness of Allah (Tawheed) and that Muhammad (ﷺ) is His final messenger.
Belief vs. Practice
Simply believing that Allah is the only God (Tawheed) is essential, but Islam requires both faith (Iman) and action (Amal). Accepting Allah alone as God makes one a Muslim, but faith without deeds is incomplete in the eyes of Allah.
The Prophet Muhammad (ﷺ) said:
"Iman (faith) has over seventy branches, the highest of which is saying La ilaha illallah (There is no god but Allah), and the lowest is removing something harmful from the road." (Sahih Muslim)
If Someone Believes but Does Not Follow Teachings
- Still a Muslim, but a Sinner (Fasiq):
- If someone acknowledges Allah and the Prophet (ﷺ) but neglects Islamic teachings, they remain a Muslim but are committing major sins.
- Allah’s mercy is vast, and sincere repentance can erase their sins.
- If someone acknowledges Allah and the Prophet (ﷺ) but neglects Islamic teachings, they remain a Muslim but are committing major sins.
- Deliberate Rejection (Istihlal) of Obligations:
- If someone knowingly denies or mocks essential practices like prayer or fasting, they risk leaving the fold of Islam.
- The Prophet (ﷺ) said:
“Between a man and disbelief is his abandonment of prayer.” (Sahih Muslim)
- If someone knowingly denies or mocks essential practices like prayer or fasting, they risk leaving the fold of Islam.
Hope and Mercy from Allah
Even for those who fall short in practice, Allah’s doors are always open:
“Say, O My servants who have transgressed against themselves [by sinning], do not despair of the mercy of Allah. Indeed, Allah forgives all sins.” (Qur’an 39:53)
True Faith Changes the Heart
The Prophet (ﷺ) said:
“When faith enters the heart, the heart opens up to obedience.” (Musnad Ahmad)
In conclusion:
- Believing in Allah alone is the foundation of being a Muslim.
- Following His teachings is a natural outcome of sincere faith.
- Neglecting teachings without denial still keeps one within Islam, but with accountability for their actions.
- True understanding of Allah’s mercy and justice encourages both belief and practice.
So the religion that these "individuals" are getting their ideas from is Islam.Well are the "individuals" Muslim?
Whether they call themselves Muslim is not the point—the question is: Are they following Islam as defined by the Qur'an and the Prophet Muhammad (ﷺ)?
The label “Muslim” doesn’t guarantee that their actions represent Islam. If someone acts against the Qur'an and the Prophet's teachings, then their deeds are not “Islamic” but their own injustice.
The Qur'an says:
“And do not kill the soul which Allah has forbidden, except by right. This has He instructed you that you may use reason.” (Qur'an 6:151)
The Prophet Muhammad (ﷺ) said:
“Beware! If anyone wrongs a non-Muslim citizen, I will argue against him on the Day of Judgment.” (Sunan Abi Dawood)
So, if someone kills without just cause, are they following Islam or breaking it?
Calling a crime “Islamic” just because the criminal claims to be Muslim is like blaming science for a bomb made by a scientist. The problem lies not in the source (Qur'an), but in their false reading, cultural bias, or political motives.
The book they claim to act on is the Qur'an, but their actions contradict it.
And the book they interpret (wrongly or rightly) is the Quran? Yes?
they claim to interpret the Qur’an, but their actions clearly show a wrong interpretation that contradicts its core teachings.
The Qur’an warns against misusing its guidance:
“He misleads many by it and guides many by it. But He misleads not except the defiantly disobedient.” (Qur'an 2:26)
The Prophet Muhammad (ﷺ) also predicted that some people would misuse the Qur'an:
“There will come people who recite the Qur’an, but it will not go beyond their throats. They will stray from the religion like an arrow from a bow.” (Sahih al-Bukhari)
So, while they use the Qur’an as their source, they betray its message. The book is the Qur'an, but the problem is their disobedience to what it truly teaches.
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@Best.Korea
No, thats just you attacking a strawman I didnt even mention.The argument was that teachings of alah arent good at teaching people, so alah fails at teaching people. Thus, alah is a failed teacher.
Your argument assumes that success in teaching is measured solely by universal obedience of followers. But the Qur'an clarifies that guidance is offered, not forced, and accountability rests on individuals, not on the Teacher.
Allah says:
“Indeed, We guided him to the right path—whether he chooses to be grateful or ungrateful.” (Qur’an 76:3)
This verse highlights that Allah provides guidance, but humans have free will. The existence of wrongdoing doesn’t negate the quality of the teaching—it reflects human choice.
The Prophet Muhammad (ﷺ), the greatest teacher of Islam, said:
“Convey from me, even if it is one verse.” (Bukhari)
Despite his perfect teaching, did everyone accept his message? No—because choice is part of the test of life. Even prophets were rejected by some people, but that didn’t mean they failed as teachers.
If you judge a teacher by students who refuse to learn, is that a fair measure of the teacher’s ability? Or does it reflect the student’s unwillingness?
Success of teaching is seen in those who follow it sincerely. Millions of Muslims who strive for peace, compassion, and justice are living proof of the effectiveness of Allah’s teachings.
So, the real question: Are you evaluating the message by those who ignore it or by those who embody it?
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@Best.Korea
Imagine this: If there truly is a Creator who knows you better than you know yourself, wouldn’t His message, when fully understood, resonate with your heart, even if your mind resists it now?The Qur’an says:"Indeed, in the remembrance of Allah do hearts find rest." (Qur'an 13:28)The human soul longs for peace, meaning, and connection beyond this temporary world. That’s why many who deeply explore faith—often those who once doubted—find something they didn’t even know they were searching for.You’re questioning deeply, and that alone means you care about truth. Isn't that what truly matters? You don’t have to force belief. Just keep seeking with an open heart. Because truth, if it’s real, has a way of finding you—when you’re ready to receive it.Sometimes, the most profound answers come not from arguments but from reflection. So, what if you paused, not to accept, but just to ask: “If there is a truth beyond what I see, let it reach my heart in a way I can’t deny.”After all, if God is real, wouldn’t He be patient with your journey? And if the truth is truly beautiful, wouldn’t it embrace you when you’re ready?
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@Best.Korea
Okay, so non-believers (atheists) who deny the message burn alive eternally, and you justify that. Thanks for supporting my argument, I guess.
No hadith or Qur’anic verse says that an atheist who rejects Islam after understanding it out of sincere disbelief, without arrogance or hatred, will automatically burn eternally. The Qur'an and hadith emphasize justice, knowledge, and intent.
1. Punishment is for Arrogant Rejection, Not Sincere Disbelief:
“And never would We punish until We sent a messenger.” (Qur’an 17:15)
“Those who reject Our signs out of arrogance – they are companions of the Fire.” (Qur’an 7:36)
- Punishment is for arrogance, not for disbelief alone.
2. Prophet Muhammad (ﷺ) on Allah’s Justice:
The Prophet (ﷺ) said:
“A man will be brought on the Day of Judgment and it will be said: ‘Did you receive My message?’ He will reply: ‘No.’ Then Allah will test him…” (Musnad Ahmad)
- Even those unaware or unconvinced will be tested fairly.
3. Non-Muslims Can Attain Allah’s Mercy:
“Indeed, those who believe, those who were Jews, Christians, or Sabians... will have their reward with their Lord.” (Qur’an 2:62)
- Sincerity and righteousness are what matter, not labels alone.
Punishment in Islam is based on knowledge, arrogance, and intent, not simply disbelief. If a person rejects the message due to genuine personal conviction, their fate is with Allah, who is the Most Just.
No sincere seeker of truth remains an atheist after truly understanding Islam, because its message aligns with human nature (fitrah), reason, and heart. Rejection after understanding stems from arrogance, not doubt.
1. Human Nature (Fitrah) Recognizes the Creator:
“So direct your face toward the religion, inclining to truth. Adhere to the fitrah of Allah upon which He has created [all] people.” (Qur’an 30:30)
- Every human has a natural inclination toward belief. Understanding Islam rekindles this innate recognition of God.
2. The Qur’an Satisfies Reason and Heart:
“We will show them Our signs in the horizons and within themselves until it becomes clear to them that it is the truth.” (Qur’an 41:53)
- The Qur'an appeals to logic, science, and self-reflection. Sincere seekers are convinced by its clarity and depth.
3. Prophet Muhammad (ﷺ) on Truth and Arrogance:
The Prophet (ﷺ) said:
“No one who has an atom’s weight of arrogance in his heart will enter Paradise.” (Sahih Muslim)
- Rejection after understanding is a result of arrogance, not ignorance.
4. Examples of Sincere Seekers:
Even enemies of Islam, like Umar ibn al-Khattab (RA), accepted the truth upon understanding the Qur’an deeply. History shows that sincere seekers who genuinely grasp Islam’s message are drawn to it.
If someone claims to “fully understand” Islam but remains an atheist, it signals misunderstanding or bias. The Qur’an repeatedly states that its guidance is clear to those sincere in heart and mind. Rejection comes from pride or denial, not from clarity.Thus, if an atheist truly comprehends Islam, the Qur’an, and the teachings of the Prophet (ﷺ), they will not want to remain an atheist—because Islam aligns with truth, nature, reason, and justice.
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@Stephen
Stop skirting the question.So then what religion and what interpretation of what book are they acting on?
"They are acting on their own flawed understanding of Islam, not on the Qur'an or authentic teachings of the Prophet Muhammad (ﷺ). No verse in the Qur'an or hadith prescribes killing someone for writing a novel or expressing opinions. The Qur'an explicitly forbids unjust killing:
- ‘Whoever kills a person [unjustly]... it is as if he has killed all of humanity.’ (Qur’an 5:32)
So, where does this violent idea come from?
- Cultural Extremism: They confuse cultural practices and personal emotions with religious commands.
- Misinterpretation of Law: Some misuse the concept of blasphemy laws, which in classical Islamic law required strict conditions and due process—never mob violence.
- Political Agendas: Many violent acts are driven by politics, revenge, or power struggles, using religion as a mask.
The True Islamic Position:
- The Prophet Muhammad (ﷺ) was insulted, mocked, and attacked many times, yet he forgave his enemies. He never ordered anyone to be killed for mere words.
- When a man insulted him in public, the Prophet responded with patience, not violence.
So, they are not following the Qur'an or the Sunnah—they are following their anger and ignorance under the false banner of religion."
If someone commits violence claiming it’s from religious teachings, does their claim automatically prove the religion promotes it?
Think about this: If a scientist misuses scientific knowledge to create a destructive weapon, do we blame science itself or the individual’s intent? The same logic applies here. People committing violence may claim to act on religious teachings, but unless their actions align with the actual scripture and the life of the Prophet Muhammad (ﷺ), their claim holds no weight.
If the core texts of Islam—the Qur'an and authentic hadiths—don’t command such acts, then attributing their behavior to Islam is a false association. A person’s misuse of a concept doesn’t define the concept itself.
So, I ask you: Are you judging the religion by the manual (Qur’an) and the Prophet’s example or by the actions of those who clearly act against both?
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@Best.Korea
The concept of eternal punishment is found in many religions, often as a consequence for rejecting guidance rather than a random act of cruelty.So you think eternally burning all atheists alive in a fire is not cruel? And you still dont understand why I dont respect religion which promises to burn me alive eternally after I die?Interesting.
"I understand your reaction—eternal punishment sounds severe. But let me be absolutely clear: The Qur'an's concept of Hell is about ultimate justice, not cruelty. Let’s break this down with proof from the Qur'an and logic."
1. Hell Is for Rebellion Against Truth, Not Simple Disbelief
- The Qur'an never says that people burn just for disbelieving. It condemns those who reject truth knowingly and arrogantly.
- ‘Indeed, those who disbelieve after having believed and then increase in disbelief – never will their repentance be accepted, and they are the ones astray.’ (3:90)
- ‘Indeed, those who disbelieve after having believed and then increase in disbelief – never will their repentance be accepted, and they are the ones astray.’ (3:90)
- It’s about intentions and actions, not just a label.
2. Not All Non-Believers Are Condemned
- People are judged based on their knowledge and sincerity. The Qur'an explicitly states:
- ‘And never would We punish until We sent a messenger.’ (17:15) – Meaning, no one is punished for what they never understood.
- ‘Whoever does good, whether male or female, and is a believer—We will surely grant them a good life.’ (16:97)
- ‘And never would We punish until We sent a messenger.’ (17:15) – Meaning, no one is punished for what they never understood.
3. Justice Demands Consequences for Evil
- Eternal punishment is for those who choose evil and reject goodness even after knowing the truth.
- ‘And for those who disbelieve and deny Our signs—those will be the companions of Hell, abiding eternally therein as recompense for what they used to deny.’ (64:10)
- ‘And for those who disbelieve and deny Our signs—those will be the companions of Hell, abiding eternally therein as recompense for what they used to deny.’ (64:10)
- Just like a murderer who destroys lives can face life imprisonment, someone who spreads evil without remorse faces eternal consequence.
4. Allah’s Mercy Is Greater Than His Wrath
- Hell is not Allah’s desire for anyone. The Qur'an says:
- ‘My mercy encompasses all things.’ (7:156)
- ‘Allah does not wrong people at all, but it is the people who wrong themselves.’ (10:44)
- ‘My mercy encompasses all things.’ (7:156)
- The door to repentance remains open until the very last breath:
- ‘Say, O My servants who have transgressed against themselves [by sinning], do not despair of the mercy of Allah. Indeed, Allah forgives all sins.’ (39:53)
- ‘Say, O My servants who have transgressed against themselves [by sinning], do not despair of the mercy of Allah. Indeed, Allah forgives all sins.’ (39:53)
5. Consequences Must Be Proportionate to the Crime
- You call it cruelty, but consider this: Should a mass murderer face the same fate as an innocent person?
- If someone knowingly rejects goodness and spreads evil for eternity, isn’t eternal consequence fair?
6. You Don’t Have to Agree, But This Is What Justice Means in Islam
- You may dislike the concept, but it’s not based on hatred. It’s based on:
- Accountability: Actions have consequences.
- Intention: Judgment is on the heart, not just belief labels.
- Mercy: Repentance erases sin entirely.
- Accountability: Actions have consequences.
Bottom Line:
This isn’t about cruelty; it’s about justice with mercy. You don’t have to share my belief, but calling it ‘psychopathic’ ignores the depth and fairness behind it.
"Burning eternally in Hell will be by the command of Allah alone. On the Day of Judgment, His justice will prevail—there will be no other power, no appeal, and no injustice. On that day, you will witness the reality of His judgment for yourself. The punishment will fit the sin, nothing more, nothing less. If the concept of eternal punishment troubles you, perhaps it’s because, deep down, you sense the gravity of that accountability—and that concern is valid."
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@Stephen
Then who's religious idea and which religious book have they distorted?
"They are acting on false interpretations of religion, not the Qur'an or authentic teachings of Islam. Nowhere in the Qur'an or Hadith does it say to kill someone for writing a book or expressing an opinion. The Qur'an upholds justice, patience, and peaceful dialogue: ‘There is no compulsion in religion’ (2:256).
Such individuals rely on fabricated rulings or extremist ideologies that have no basis in core Islamic teachings. They misapply concepts like blasphemy or apostasy—topics that scholars have debated for centuries—and use them as excuses for violence.
So, to answer you directly: they are following false ideas that contradict the actual teachings of Islam, which emphasize justice, mercy, and dialogue."
Such individuals rely on fabricated rulings or extremist ideologies that have no basis in core Islamic teachings. They misapply concepts like blasphemy or apostasy—topics that scholars have debated for centuries—and use them as excuses for violence.
So, to answer you directly: they are following false ideas that contradict the actual teachings of Islam, which emphasize justice, mercy, and dialogue."
well if u could clarify ur question again, i might be able to answer it more clearly......
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@Best.Korea
There are many surahs in Quran saying all non-believers will burn alive eternally, even if they do good deeds. Now, you can pretend that Quran doesnt say what it says, but that just makes me not respect your religion even more since you are basically a liar.
"I’m not pretending or lying; I’m clarifying the context, which is key to understanding the Qur'an. Let me address your concern directly:"
1. The Qur'an Addresses Different Types of Non-Believers
The Qur'an doesn’t lump all non-believers into one category. It distinguishes between:
- Kuffar (deliberate rejecters): Those who know the truth but reject it out of arrogance or hatred.
- Ahlul Kitab (People of the Book): Jews and Christians, who are given a special status.
- Mushrikeen (polytheists): Those who worship idols or associate partners with God.
- Those unaware or misguided: Their judgment is left to Allah’s perfect justice.
2. Judgment Is Based on Truth and Accountability
- The Qur'an repeatedly states that Allah is the most just: "Allah does not wrong even the weight of an atom" (4:40).
- People are judged according to their knowledge, intentions, and actions. Those who never received the message properly or were misled without fault are promised fairness.
3. Good Deeds Matter, Even for Non-Believers
The Qur'an acknowledges the value of good deeds. It says that no effort goes to waste, though the ultimate reward differs based on belief and sincerity:
- "Whoever does an atom's weight of good will see it" (99:7).
- Non-believers are rewarded for their good deeds in this world and, depending on Allah’s mercy, in the afterlife.
4. Eternal Punishment Is for Rebellion, Not Ignorance
Eternal punishment is reserved for those who:
- Knowingly reject the truth out of arrogance and hostility.
- Spread corruption, oppression, and evil knowingly.It is about the state of the heart and deliberate rebellion, not simply a label.
5. The Concept of Justice vs. Mercy
If a criminal commits atrocities without remorse, would it be unjust for them to face consequences? The Qur'an’s concept of Hell is similar—it’s about justice for ultimate rebellion against truth and goodness.
"So, I’m not denying what the Qur'an says. I’m explaining that the Qur'an is nuanced about belief and accountability. You may still disagree, but please know that my explanation is sincere, not a lie."
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@Best.Korea
So you think its justice to torture all atheists eternally in a fire, and you expect me to respect such psychopathic view?
"I see why this troubles you, and it’s important to clarify what the Qur'an says about justice and the afterlife. It’s not about blind punishment but about accountability, choices, and mercy. Let’s break it down:"
1. The Qur'an Emphasizes Mercy Over Punishment
- The Qur’an repeatedly states that Allah’s mercy outweighs His wrath. The doors of repentance are open until the last breath.
- The afterlife isn't about cruelty; it’s about consequences. Just like laws in any society, actions—good or bad—have outcomes.
- People who are ignorant of the truth or misguided without their fault are promised justice and fairness.
2. Judgment Is Based on Intentions, Not Labels
- The Qur’an doesn’t condemn all atheists simply for disbelief; it condemns those who know the truth, recognize it, and reject it arrogantly.
- There’s a difference between someone who never found faith or misunderstood it and someone who maliciously rejects goodness and truth.
3. Justice vs. Mercy
- Eternal punishment is for those who intentionally cause harm, spread evil, or live without remorse.
- Justice in any system means consequences for actions. If we punish murderers in this life, is it ‘psychopathic’ or is it justice? Similarly, the afterlife is about ultimate justice—rewarding the truly good and holding the truly evil accountable.
4. What About Good Atheists?
- The Qur’an leaves judgment to Allah, who knows everyone’s heart and circumstances. "Indeed, Allah does not wrong anyone by an atom's weight" (4:40).
- The Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) taught that those who do good deeds sincerely will be rewarded, regardless of their background.
"So, my belief isn’t about cruelty or hatred; it’s about trust in perfect justice and mercy beyond human understanding. You don’t have to agree with it, but I hope you can see it’s not a ‘psychopathic’ view—it’s a belief in accountability, fairness, and ultimate truth."
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@Best.Korea
So you think its justice to torture all atheists eternally in a fire, and you expect me to respect such psychopathic view?
"I understand your concerns, and I’ll address them directly. Let’s break down each point carefully and discuss them with reason and respect."
1. “Islam justifies eternal torture of non-believers.”
Response:
The concept of eternal punishment is found in many religions, often as a consequence for rejecting guidance rather than a random act of cruelty. In Islam, Allah’s mercy is emphasized far more than His punishment. The Quran repeatedly encourages seeking forgiveness and repentance, leaving the final judgment to Allah, who knows everyone’s circumstances and intentions. Additionally:
- The Quran highlights mercy: "My mercy encompasses all things" (7:156).
- Judgment is based on deeds and intentions: The Quran mentions that non-believers who were unaware of the message or misunderstood it due to no fault of their own are treated with fairness.
- Paradise is a reward; Hell is a consequence: Just like laws in any society, actions have consequences. The Quran emphasizes justice, but also encourages repentance and forgiveness.
2. “Followers of Islam aren’t the most peaceful people, so Islam fails to produce peaceful people.”
Response:
It is important to distinguish between a teaching and the behavior of its followers. The actions of individuals do not necessarily reflect the teachings of their faith. For example:
- Every group has peaceful and violent individuals: Judging a faith by the worst behavior of some followers is unfair. Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, and other religions have had violent followers, but that doesn’t mean their teachings promote violence.
- Islam encourages peace: The very word “Islam” is derived from the word Salaam, meaning peace. The Quran states: "Whoever kills a person unjustly... it is as if he has killed all mankind" (5:32).
- Historical Contributions: Islamic civilizations have contributed immensely to science, medicine, art, and culture during times of peace and prosperity.
- Individual Responsibility: If a doctor commits a crime, we blame the individual, not the entire medical field. Similarly, individuals who misuse religion for violence are responsible for their actions.
3. “If Islam fails to produce peaceful people, then Allah fails as a teacher.”
Response:
The logic here is flawed because it assumes that teachings are automatically responsible for followers' behavior. To illustrate:
- A teacher can teach well, but students may still fail: If a teacher gives all resources, but a student chooses to cheat or skip class, is it the teacher’s failure or the student’s choice?
- Free will is central in Islam: Humans are given guidance and free will to follow or reject it. The Quran states: "There is no compulsion in religion" (2:256).
- Accountability is individual: Each person is responsible for their own actions. The Quran states: "No bearer of burdens will bear the burden of another" (6:164).
- Many peaceful individuals are inspired by Islam: Millions of Muslims contribute to peace, charity, and community service daily, reflecting the positive outcomes of Islamic teachings.
Final Thought:
It’s important to approach this discussion with fairness. Criticizing a faith based on the actions of some followers while ignoring its teachings and the good it has inspired is an incomplete argument. True understanding requires examining the source, context, and outcomes as a whole.
"I appreciate the chance to address your concerns. I hope my answers provided clarity. I’m happy to continue this conversation if you’d like to explore further."
it's your choice what u want to choose, i am just stating facts about Islam . when a law is made then the ones who break r punished, so does allah say, that if u don't follow his laws, punishment is there.
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@Best.Korea
It's important to understand the context of the verse. Surah Al-Baqarah (2:6) refers specifically to those who knowingly reject the truth with arrogance and stubbornness, not to all non-Muslims in general. It addresses a theological condition of denial, not an insult or slur against individuals.
The Qur'an distinguishes between different types of non-believers:
- Mushrikun (polytheists),
- Ahlul Kitab (People of the Book, such as Jews and Christians),
- Kafirun (those who reject truth arrogantly and knowingly).
This verse speaks to the third group—those who reject faith even after fully understanding it, out of arrogance or hatred. It is about spiritual defiance, not intelligence or capability.
Also, calling someone “retarded” is a modern derogatory interpretation that has no place in the Qur'an’s language or intention. The Qur'an’s tone is about spiritual consequences, not personal insults.
If you want to criticize the Qur'an, it's better to do so from a place of deep reading and understanding, rather than through misinterpretation. You might find that the Qur'an spends more verses on mercy, justice, and forgiveness than on punishment.
u could still specify any part.....
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@Stephen
I didn't ask about "blasphemy". I asked where did those "individuals" get this idea that it is right to murder another for say, writing a novel?
The idea of murdering someone for writing a novel does not come from the core teachings of Islam; it comes from cultural, political, and extremist interpretations that misuse religious concepts for power or revenge. Islam strictly prohibits killing innocent people.
The Qur’an clearly says:
Surah Al-Ma'idah (5:32): Whoever kills a soul…it is as if he had killed all of mankind. And whoever saves a soul, it is as if he had saved all of mankind.
Acts of violence against writers or critics stem from people distorting religious ideas to justify personal anger or political agendas, not from the teachings of the religion itself. Historically, extremists have existed in every ideology, but their actions do not define the ideology. Islam, at its core, promotes justice, dialogue, and forgiveness, not personal vengeance.
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@Best.Korea
Well, is a quality of religion determined by quality of all its followers? Islam fails there too.As for core values, the core values of Quran are burning all non-muslims alive eternally in a fire.So I guess you can understand that as a non-muslim, I cannot really respect a religion which threatens to torture me eternally unless I subjugate to it. Its not a religion which wants peace with non-muslims. Quran promotes clear hate for all non-muslims.
The Qur’an’s concept of the afterlife is about justice, not hatred. It addresses consequences for actions, just as laws in society do. The mention of punishment isn’t about targeting people for their identity—it’s about choices and deeds. The Qur’an repeatedly emphasizes mercy, forgiveness, and guidance before warning of consequences for rejecting truth after knowing it fully.
Eternal punishment is for those who knowingly, arrogantly, and persistently do wrong and spread harm, not for innocent people or those who simply follow a different path. In fact, the Qur’an says clearly:
Surah Al-An’am (6:160): Whoever comes [on the Day of Judgment] with a good deed will have ten times the like thereof [to his credit], and whoever comes with an evil deed will not be recompensed except the like thereof; and they will not be wronged.
Also, about salvation:
Surah Al-Baqarah (2:62): Indeed, those who believed and those who were Jews or Christians or Sabeans — those who believed in Allah and the Last Day and did righteousness — will have their reward with their Lord.
The Qur’an condemns arrogance and oppression, not disagreement. If punishment alone defined a religion, then most religions would seem harsh, because they all warn of consequences for wrong actions. But the Qur’an also says:
Surah Az-Zumar (39:53): Say, “O My servants who have transgressed against themselves [by sinning], do not despair of the mercy of Allah. Indeed, Allah forgives all sins.”
The essence of Islam is not hatred or torture—it’s guidance, choice, and justice with mercy.
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@Best.Korea
If Taoism promotes peace, and its followers do violence, then it simply means Taoism fails as a religion, just like Islam.Now, I dont really see whats your argument. I say "islam is bad" and you say "taoism is bad too". Well, sure, we can agree that they are both bad.
You’re missing the point. The actions of followers don’t define a religion—the teachings do. If someone commits violence while claiming to follow Taoism or Islam, it reflects their failure to live by those teachings, not a flaw in the religion itself.
By your logic, if someone commits evil acts in the name of Taoism, would you blame Taoism entirely? Probably not. It’s the same with Islam. You and I can agree that human behavior is often the problem, not the ideals or values a faith upholds.
By your logic, if someone commits evil acts in the name of Taoism, would you blame Taoism entirely? Probably not. It’s the same with Islam. You and I can agree that human behavior is often the problem, not the ideals or values a faith upholds.
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@Best.Korea
It hurts me much more if I dont insult nonsense such as islam, so they should just deal with it, really.
It’s understandable to feel strongly about these topics, but let’s keep the discussion fair. Every religion, ideology, and group has followers who act in ways that don’t reflect its true teachings.
If someone insults something deeply meaningful to you, your instinct is to defend it. It’s the same for people of any belief. However, respect should go both ways. You have every right to express your views, but labeling an entire faith as “nonsense” or dismissing it entirely closes the door to understanding and dialogue.
If your issue is with specific teachings or actions, critique them, but don’t assume every follower represents those actions. Peace starts when conversations, even tough ones, are handled with mutual respect.
If someone insults something deeply meaningful to you, your instinct is to defend it. It’s the same for people of any belief. However, respect should go both ways. You have every right to express your views, but labeling an entire faith as “nonsense” or dismissing it entirely closes the door to understanding and dialogue.
If your issue is with specific teachings or actions, critique them, but don’t assume every follower represents those actions. Peace starts when conversations, even tough ones, are handled with mutual respect.
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@Best.Korea
I have no any respect for religion which justifies eternal torture of atheists by alah. I dont see why you think that your religion deserves respect. Muslims never respect anyone. They even have degrading names for atheists in their holy texts. I dont see how can you ask for nonsense such as quran to be respected. Why should I respect religion which tells me that I will be eternally tortured after I die?
"I get why you feel this way, and you’re entitled to your opinion. But respecting a religion doesn't mean agreeing with every part of it—it means respecting people’s right to believe, just as you’d want your beliefs respected.
Also, let's clear a misconception: Disagreement is not hatred. Every religion warns of consequences for choices in life—that’s common in Taoism, Christianity, Hinduism, and others. But that doesn't mean every follower goes around threatening people.
Yes, the Qur’an has warnings for those who reject faith, but it also says:
- ‘There is no compulsion in religion.’ (2:256)
- ‘To you, your religion, and to me, mine.’ (109:6)
It’s about accountability, not cruelty. Eternal consequences are a concept found in many religions, not just Islam. Even Taoism teaches about karmic retribution and cycles of suffering.
As for respect—Muslims do respect others. They call Christians and Jews ‘People of the Book’ with honor, and even atheists are seen as part of humanity. If some Muslims show hate, that’s their personal failure, not Islam’s teaching.
In the end, respecting a religion isn’t about liking it—it’s about respecting the human right to believe. Just like you’d want your beliefs respected, even if someone disagrees with you."
The Qur'an and Islamic teachings address disbelievers (which can include atheists, polytheists, and others who reject the message) using certain terms, but these terms are more about spiritual states than personal insults. Here are some examples:
- Kafir (كافر) – Meaning “disbeliever” or “one who conceals the truth.”
- “Indeed, those who disbelieve—it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them—they will not believe.” (Qur'an 2:6)This term describes a theological position (someone who denies the message) rather than being a personal insult.
- Mushrik (مشرك) – Meaning “one who associates partners with Allah” (polytheist).
- “Indeed, Allah does not forgive associating others with Him, but He forgives what is less than that for whom He wills.” (Qur'an 4:48)
- “Indeed, Allah does not forgive associating others with Him, but He forgives what is less than that for whom He wills.” (Qur'an 4:48)
- Munafiq (منافق) – Meaning “hypocrite” (someone who claims belief but acts against it).
- “Indeed, the hypocrites will be in the lowest depths of the Fire.” (Qur'an 4:145)
- “Indeed, the hypocrites will be in the lowest depths of the Fire.” (Qur'an 4:145)
However, none of these terms are "name-calling" in a derogatory sense; they are theological descriptions.
Islamic View on Speech and Respect
- The Qur’an commands Muslims to speak kindly, even to those they disagree with:“And tell My servants to say that which is best. Indeed, Satan induces dissension among them.” (Qur'an 17:53)
- Prophet Muhammad (ﷺ) taught:"A true believer does not insult, curse, or use foul language." (Tirmidhi)
What About Atheists Specifically?
The Qur'an does not single out atheists with degrading labels. It speaks of disbelief in general terms but encourages dialogue:
- “Do not argue with the People of the Book except in the best manner.” (Qur'an 29:46)
In Summary:
- The Qur’an uses descriptive terms (like “kafir”) based on belief, not as insults.
- Muslims are commanded to speak respectfully, even with opponents.
- Negative behavior from individuals reflects their character, not Islamic teachings.
So, if you’ve seen Muslims using insults, that’s their personal failure, not something the Qur'an instructs.
could u specify any ref. where u saw holy texts of islam calling names of atheists?
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@Best.Korea
No, my religion doesnt teach any eternal infinite torture in the afterlife.Now, I dont see why do you fail to respond to my argument. Is it too strong?Islam teaches that all non-muslims will be burned alive forever in a fire.So much for being a religion of peace and non-subjugation.I agree that muslims make islam look bad.Really, if Islam is the most peaceful religion, then you would at least think its followers will be most peaceful people, but no. The most peaceful country currently is Japan, with least murders. So I guess religion of alah doesnt work.
"I get where you’re coming from, but let’s separate faith from followers’ actions. If a religion teaches peace, but its followers act otherwise, that’s on human behavior, not the faith itself.
Look at Taoism—a beautiful philosophy of harmony and balance. Yet, in history, Taoist warlords fought brutal battles, and some used Taoist alchemy for power. Would you say Taoism promotes violence, or were those individuals just failing to embody its teachings?
Japan’s peace isn’t about religion—it’s about culture, law, and values. If religion alone made people peaceful, then medieval Taoist sects wouldn’t have fought wars either.
Also, labeling all Muslims for extremists’ actions is like blaming Taoism for the actions of the Yellow Turban Rebellion or religious oppression during certain Chinese dynasties.
No religion is defined by its worst followers. It’s defined by its core values. If you truly believe in Taoism’s principle of balance (Yin-Yang), then you’d understand that making sweeping judgments without understanding the whole picture creates disharmony.
True peace isn’t about which religion is ‘right’—it’s about how people live their values."
Look at Taoism—a beautiful philosophy of harmony and balance. Yet, in history, Taoist warlords fought brutal battles, and some used Taoist alchemy for power. Would you say Taoism promotes violence, or were those individuals just failing to embody its teachings?
Japan’s peace isn’t about religion—it’s about culture, law, and values. If religion alone made people peaceful, then medieval Taoist sects wouldn’t have fought wars either.
Also, labeling all Muslims for extremists’ actions is like blaming Taoism for the actions of the Yellow Turban Rebellion or religious oppression during certain Chinese dynasties.
No religion is defined by its worst followers. It’s defined by its core values. If you truly believe in Taoism’s principle of balance (Yin-Yang), then you’d understand that making sweeping judgments without understanding the whole picture creates disharmony.
True peace isn’t about which religion is ‘right’—it’s about how people live their values."
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@Stephen
I see.So can you tell me where those "individuals" get this idea that it is right to murder another for say, writing a novel?
The "idea" of killing for blasphemy doesn’t come from the religion—it comes from people misusing it. Faith teaches restraint, but extremists exploit anger for their gain.
It’s like blaming all science for nuclear bombs—the problem is in how knowledge is used, not in its core principles.
It’s like blaming all science for nuclear bombs—the problem is in how knowledge is used, not in its core principles.
Most people who commit such acts have a poor understanding of their religion. They may never have studied the Qur'an deeply or explored its emphasis on peace and justice.
When individuals commit violence over perceived insults to their faith, they are often influenced by a mix of religious misinterpretation, political agendas, cultural conditioning, and extremist rhetoric—not by the core teachings of their religion.
"Repel evil with what is better" (41:34)"Do not let hatred of a people prevent you from being just. Be just; that is nearer to righteousness"(5:8)
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@Best.Korea
Nothing in your reply refutes anything I said. Also, you still didnt explain why members of religion which promotes peace so much have such great urge to kill and threat those who burn quran, or mock alah.
This is a deep and complex topic. The issue isn’t about the religion itself but how human emotions, cultural influences, and political contexts intersect with religious beliefs.
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@Best.Korea
You think it should be illegal to burn or mock Quran?
i didn't say that, what i mean is that each religion must be respected, whatever their belief is. whether it's bible,quran or any other, it will of course hurt it's followers.
by mentioning laws, i just denoted that thou there r rules bout religions, not evrywhere r they fulfilled.
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@Best.Korea
So you justify violence and threats. I guess thats okay.
i don't mean that i justify it, i just gave a rzn, n i don't approve of it. that's no way to treat sm1, even if they r disrespectful to u.
Muslims tried to subjugate me many times, by making all kinds of threats and lies against me, even beating me.
I’m so sorry you had to go through that. if they tried to lie or beat u for no cause<which is disgusting n immoral> then i'm afraid they didn't follow their religion at all. it isn't written anywhere that one threats or tortures sm1 in the quran, just cz they don't follow their religion. i think they might be some ppl trying to make the Islam look bad. if u look up it's teachings, mercy n kindness is something where there is most emphasis.
Even the Quran makes horrible threats of eternal torture against all non-muslims. But if you say there is no subjugation, then I guess I should trust you.
1. Buddhism:
Buddhism also warns of consequences for negative actions, but it emphasizes cause and effect (karma) over divine judgment:
- Naraka (Buddhist Hell): Beings who commit severe wrongdoing may be reborn in one of many hellish realms, suffering until their negative karma is exhausted. However, this suffering is not eternal; it ends when the karma is resolved.
- Cycle of Rebirth (Samsara): Negative actions can trap a soul in the cycle of suffering across many lifetimes.
2. Taoism (Daoism):
- Taoism generally emphasizes harmony with the Tao (the Way) and natural balance rather than explicit concepts of hell or eternal punishment. However, Taoist folklore and later texts do mention consequences for immoral actions:
- The Ten Courts of Hell: In Chinese folk religion (which blends Taoism, Buddhism, and Confucianism), souls pass through ten courts of judgment in the underworld (Diyu). Sinners are punished according to their deeds before reincarnation.
- Moral Retribution (Karma-like concept): Taoism teaches that actions have consequences (similar to karma). Evil deeds disrupt harmony and bring suffering, possibly extending into future lifetimes.
- The Ten Courts of Hell: In Chinese folk religion (which blends Taoism, Buddhism, and Confucianism), souls pass through ten courts of judgment in the underworld (Diyu). Sinners are punished according to their deeds before reincarnation.
3. Hinduism:
Hinduism has similar concepts to Buddhism:
- Karma and Rebirth: Actions in this life determine the circumstances of future lives.
- Yama and Naraka (Hell): Yama, the god of death, judges souls. Sinners are sent to different hells (Narakas) for temporary punishment before reincarnation.4
4. Christianity:
Christianity speaks of consequences for actions, particularly focusing on the afterlife:
- Heaven and Hell: Eternal reward or punishment based on faith and deeds.
- Judgment Day: The final day when all souls are judged according to their deeds (Revelation 20:12-15).
5. Judaism:
Judaism emphasizes justice but has diverse beliefs about the afterlife:
- Gehinnom: A purgatory-like place where souls are purified for up to 12 months before entering the World to Come.
Counter-Argument:
- All Religions Warn of Consequences: Punishment for wrongdoing is a universal theme across religious traditions, but the interpretations, durations, and forms of punishment vary.
- Qur’an’s Emphasis on Mercy: Unlike some traditions that teach eternal suffering without relief, the Qur’an repeatedly offers hope through repentance and Allah’s mercy (Surah Az-Zumar 39:53).
- Justice is Central in All Faiths: The concept of consequences for one’s actions is a cornerstone of moral teachings worldwide. The Qur'an also balances justice with mercy and the opportunity for forgiveness.
idk what the hell those Muslims said or did, but the way u tell, doesn't seem like what a true Muslim would do.
besides, the word of Quran is for justice n mercy, if u read some of the verses mentioned below, i guess it will be clear;
Verses on Allah’s Mercy:
i hope it will be clear.
But if you say there is no subjugation, then I guess I should trust you.
The Qur’an firmly opposes subjugation and promotes justice, freedom, and dignity. Any act of oppression done by individuals or groups in the name of Islam contradicts its teachings. In Islam, the concept of justice, dignity, and freedom is central. The Qur'an does not promote subjugation or oppression; rather, it condemns injustice and tyranny.
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@Best.Korea
i just replied to that, kindly check it out once.
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@Stephen
Do you mean "certain points " such as these?Knifeman attacks man 'burning Koran' on London street: 'Protester' rushed to hospital as police make arrest after violent confrontation outside Turkish Consulate.Police speak to child about death threats after Quran damaged at Wakefield school. Expelled and Paraded in front of the worlds press.Man who burned Quran 'shot dead in Sweden'Teacher who showed his pupils a cartoon of the Prophet Mohammed is still in hiding a year [s] after fleeing his home [with his wife and children] due to death threats
“I understand your point about certain violent incidents, and I won’t deny that some people have acted terribly in the name of religion. However, it’s important to distinguish between the actions of individuals and the teachings of their faith. What I mean by ''certain points'' is that in general Quran does not promote it or anything. It only tells to fight for yourself against oppression.
The Qur’an itself promotes patience, justice, and peaceful conduct:
- Surah Al-Baqarah (2:256): ‘There is no compulsion in religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong.’
- Surah Al-Mumtahanah (60:8): ‘Allah does not forbid you from being good and just to those who have not fought you because of your religion or expelled you from your homes. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly.’
- Surah Al-Anbiya (21:87): (Story of Yunus (AS)) : "And [mention] the man of the fish (Prophet Yunus), when he went off in anger and thought that We would not decree anything upon him. And he called out within the darkness, 'There is no deity except You; exalted are You. Indeed, I have been of the wrongdoers.' So We responded to him and saved him from the distress. And thus do We save the believers."
Prophet Yunus (AS) left his people in frustration, but the verse teaches the lesson that acting hastily in anger can lead to regret.
Such teachings are clear: anger and violence are not the Qur’anic way.
However, when people witness their faith being insulted, some unfortunately let emotions override the principles of their religion. It’s human, but not justified.
If someone burns a sacred book, it may be deeply offensive, but the Qur'an advises believers to walk away from ignorance:
- Surah Al-Furqan (25:63): ‘And the servants of the Most Merciful are those who walk upon the earth humbly, and when the ignorant address them harshly, they say, "Peace."’
I hope we can agree that judging an entire faith or community by the worst actions of some individuals is unfair. People of every belief system have their share of wrongdoers. The true test is whether we choose to perpetuate hatred or seek understanding.
It’s also important to note that many of these incidents happen due to failures in law enforcement or state policies rather than religious teachings. Every country has its own laws regarding freedom of expression, hate speech, and religious protection:
- United Kingdom: The UK has laws under the Public Order Act 1986 prohibiting hate speech and incitement to violence, but incidents like those you mentioned often stem from gaps in enforcement rather than lack of laws.
- Sweden: Sweden upholds freedom of expression but does not criminalize the burning of religious texts unless it directly incites violence or hatred. This legal gap is why incidents of Qur’an burning have occurred, despite condemnation from religious communities.
- France: Strong secularism laws (Laïcité) aim to separate religion from the state, but they sometimes lead to tension when religious sensitivities are not respected, such as in the case of cartoons.
The problem is not faith but the failure of laws and systems to promote justice and tolerance. The Qur'an itself condemns vigilantism:
- Surah An-Nisa (4:135): ‘O you who have believed, be persistently standing firm in justice, witnesses for Allah, even if it be against yourselves or parents or relatives.’
So, while these incidents are tragic, they do not represent Islam, Christianity, or any religion—they represent human error and weak governance.
Lastly, I’d say that you read the Qur’an directly, even just a few chapters. It’s always best to know what something truly says rather than what others say about it.”
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@Greyparrot
@Best.Korea
@Shila
@baggins
@WyIted
@Best.Korea, @WyIted, @baggins, @Shila, @Greyparrot, @zedvictor4, @Savant
since the topic is under discussion, could u guys go to this debate n vote?
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@Best.Korea
Migrants are poisoning the blood of our country with their honest work and humble decent lifestyle. We should only accept rich migrants who are greedy and corrupt like us.
"So, greed and corruption are virtues now? Strange how honesty and hard work became threats—unless, of course, corruption is the system’s real currency."
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@RemyBrown
undocumented ones should be given rights, thou the govt. should do their homework on em, u can't let terrorists roaming ya streets.
cz most of the the undocuented ones migrate as they r hvin a hard time, so as humans n while keeping some morals under consideration, it won't be bad to help them.
besides they do tend to work much better sometimes than the natives. so it would be unjust to set them aside.
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@Best.Korea
Thats true. I havent met most of muslim people, but the ones who wanted to beat me up for mocking Quran didnt exactly set up a good introduction.
well dear, if sm1 tries to mock ur faith n ur belief then the anger can be understood, thou that isn't the way one must deal with such stuff, even quran doesn't agree with anger at certain points, in fact it encourages to stay away from it.
n yes subjugation is not really the way, idk what those ppl u met did, but that's not what their religion says.
Here is what Hitler thinks of islam:"*Scowls, a vein throbbing in his temples as he contemplates the mention of Islam.* Islam... a plague upon our world, an insidious force that seeks to poison the bloodstream of Western civilization with its fanatical hatred and backward notions. These Muslims, with their dark, swarthy complexions and uncouth customs, are an affront to the grandeur of the white race. *He spits the words out with contempt.* Their vile Koran is a book of savagery and intolerance, preaching the subjugation of all who are not Muslim."
different ppl hv different thoughts bout different things, n not evry1 is right, y'know
Hitler probably had some plans to convert muslims to true religion, such as that of Valhalla.
we don't know for sure, so nothing can be said.
Their vile Koran is a book of savagery and intolerance, preaching the subjugation of all who are not Muslim."
have u read it once? by urself?
n how can u say that it preaches subjugation?
non-muslims are given their rights if they r living in a muslim country
the muslims r taught to stay on good terms with them.
Surah Al-Baqarah (2:256):"There is no compulsion in religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong."
then how come subjugation?
if u read it, then u will get to know what it says.
just for ref.Surah Al-Mumtahanah (60:8): "Allah does not forbid you from being good and just to those who have not fought you because of your religion or expelled you from your homes. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly." meaning that if non-muslims don't fight u or anything, then be kind.
it says clearly.
because ur experience didn't go well, doesn't necessarily mean that evry single thing related to em is bad. ppl can be somewhat strange, if a kid behaves bad, that doesn't mean it's supposed to be his parents' fault. certain factors might be the rzn as well.
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guyssss
it ain't that complex, the more u think of something, the weirder it gets.
for instance, if u keep on saying a single word on n on, let it be any, then after 2 or 3 minutes, u will feel like u r saying such a weird n awful thing.
that's how it goes. U, me n the rest of the WORLD does exist, but we don't truly know who is living. our main thing should be living itself, since many exist but not evry1 lives./
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@Shila
ah , yes
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@Shila
i guess it did work but there r still ppl who uh, well hv their view quite clear.
faith is a thing that exists as well.
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@Best.Korea
idk if u r angry more on the US or Muslims, but if the ppl u met weren't good, doesn't necessarily mean all of em r like that!
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@Best.Korea
Okay, muslims are mostly dumb degenerates. They dont even have values because almost every muslim country on Earth bends over to USA and doesnt even follow its own religion anymore but accepts western values.But Talibans are different.Soviets wanted to conquer Afghanistan and Talibans kicked their ass so hard that it was the first time in history that a literal world superpower was running away in fear from a poor Taliban country which was over 20 times smaller than it.Then Americans thought they will do better so they attacked Talibans too. Americans spent 20 years fighting the Talibans, then Americans also ran away in fear and the government they installed was defeated by Talibans in 3 days.Afghanistan is literally modern Sparta. These guys defeated 2 strongest superpowers in history. These guys dont let other countries boss them. They have their own values and stick to them. They have some of the highest birth rates in the world so no country can win a long term war against them because all lost soldiers are quickly replaced.So I cant hate Talibans. Even if I disagree with their religion and way of life, I have to admit that defeating two strongest superpowers in history in 40 years time and making them run away in fear is a very rare achievement.
well dude, i get what u say, but y'know not everyone is like that, you don't know how many Muslims are out there who actually wanna do something, but they can't. well why not? just cz of some corrupt leaders. Talibans have a strong hold over their faith. That's why they succeed.
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