Instigator / Pro
6
1377
rating
62
debates
25.81%
won
Topic
#1031
life is created intelligently
Status
Finished
The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.
Winner & statistics
Better arguments
0
6
Better sources
4
4
Better legibility
1
2
Better conduct
1
2
After 2 votes and with 8 points ahead, the winner is...
TheAtheist
Tags
Parameters
- Publication date
- Last updated date
- Type
- Standard
- Number of rounds
- 4
- Time for argument
- One week
- Max argument characters
- 10,000
- Voting period
- One week
- Point system
- Multiple criterions
- Voting system
- Open
Contender / Con
14
1378
rating
36
debates
38.89%
won
Description
No information
Round 1
Pro
#1
coloring weasels
Weasels are grey and or brown during the summer time but are white during the winter time
https://www.britannica.com/list/7-animals-that-turn-white-in-winter
what this is like
or me wearing a red shirt so i decide to wear red pants to go with it.
coloring trees
god colored trees green to go with the green grass
this is like how god created the seasonal rabbit to turn brown to white so that the rabbit would go with the white snow
or if Santa clause wears red. so he paints his sleigh red to go with it
or if i have a brick house so i build a brick mailbox to go with the brick mailbox
god created all life
4 legs
4 legs
have 4 legs
have 4 legs
have 4 legs
have 4 legs
have 4 legs
have 4 legs
have 4 legs
have 4 legs
have 4 legs
have 4 legs
have 4 legs
4 legs
have 4 legs
have 4 legs
other coincidences
humans have
2 eyes
2 ears
1 nose
1 mouth
dogs have
2 eyes
2 ears
1 nose
1 mouth
horses have
2 eyes
2 ears
1 nose
1mouth
kangaroos
have
2 eyes
2 ears
1 nose
1 mouth
bears have
2 eyes
2 ears
1 nose
1 mouth
beavers have
2 eyes
2 ears
1 nose
1 mouth
rabbits have
2 eyes
2 ears
1 nose
1 mouth
deer have
2 eyes
2 ears
1 nose
1 mouth
tiger have
2 eyes
2 ears
1 nose
1 mouth
lions have
2 ears
2 eyes
1 nose
1 mouth
racoons have
2 ears
2 eyes
1 nose
1 mouth
cheetahs have
2 ears
2 eyes
1 nose
1 mouth
monkeys have
2 ears
2 eyes
1 nose
1 mouth
mole have
2 ears
2 eyes
1 nose
1mouth
rats have
2 ears
2 eyes
1 nose
1 mouth
elephents have
2 ears
2 eyes
1 nose
1 mouth
most creatures have these features like 90 percent just like how most creatures usually have 2 legs 2 arms. or just 4 legs. and the ones who do not follow this trend like insects. end up following another trend like 8 legs or 6 legs or even 16 legs. god got freaky when he did the insects
out of all billions of insects how many of them do not have 6 8 16 or 24 legs
beside the ones with no legs
this is not random thus life is not random
Con
#2
REBUTTALS:
“Weasels are grey and or brown during the summer time but are white during the winter time.”
Weasels become white during the winter because of evolution. In the past, weasels didn’t turn white when winter came. But at one point, a weasel was born that turned white during winter, which gave him an evolutionary advantage over other weasels. His prey didn’t see him because of the snow. He had more chances of surviving, which means that he had more chances at reproducing, which means his offspring grew and grew. Weasels that didn’t turn white eventually died out, as they had lower chances of survival. This is what actually happened.
“If Santa clause wears red. so he paints his sleigh red to go with it.”
So? What’s your point? There are many animals that don’t turn white when winter comes: tigers, bears, dogs, birds, horses. There are many plants which aren’t green. Just because two things in nature have the same color doesn’t prove intelligent design.
Your claim about animals having four legs is right. But this isn’t because of a God, it’s because of evolution. How come we never see five-legged animals? Because it’s harder to run with an odd number of legs. Animals with an odd number of legs died out, and only four-legged ones were left. But the fact that a lot of animals share different characteristics isn’t proof of intelligent design. Rather, it is proof that the characteristics which the animals share gives them an evolutionary advantage. Running around with six feet is slower than running around with four feet. We don’t need six feet instead of four. We don’t need ten eyes instead of two. We don’t need more than one mouth. There are no evolutionary benefits to having ten feet, or sixty eyes, or five mouths. That’s why animals don’t have them, not because of intelligent design.
Why do animals have two eyes? To see left and right.
Why do animals have two ears? To hear left and right.
Why do animals have one mouth and one nose? Because more than one aren’t necessary.
Evolution.
And now to my main arguments.
ARGUMENTS:
What is intelligent design? It’s design that is intelligent. We can see many examples of design that’s not intelligent in nature. Organs that have no practical use, or flaws in organisms that could be fatal. Take, for example, the human appendix. It has no benefit and no function, and humans can live perfectly fine without it. Yet 7-14% of us will become sick with appendicitis during our lifetimes, a disease that is fatal when left untreated (https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/03/21/a-new-view-of-appendicitis/). Why would an intelligent creator give humans such a pointless organ that is so dangerous? Or maybe this is just a pointless byproduct of evolution? And the appendix isn’t the only example. Did you know that whales have remains of legs in their bodies (https://www.livescience.com/7564-early-whales-legs.html)? Why on Earth would an intelligent creator give whales legs? The real answer is, whales evolved from mammals that walked on land, and the remains of legs are evidence of evolution. There are thousands of other pointless organs or flaws that can be found in different organisms.
Just the fact that some animals share similar characteristics is not proof of intelligent design. Worms don’t have eyes. Fish don’t have legs. Horses don’t turn white when winter comes, What you’re doing is called cherry picking the facts to prove your claim. If intelligent design was true, animals wouldn’t have pointless organs and dangerous flaws. Evolution, not intelligent design, is the answer.
Round 2
Pro
#3
In the rebuttal section rebuttal section i underlined my reply. While not underlining stuff you said in your last post. to make it easier to discern the two. This is also
me making jab at my first new points
differentiating good and bad
if you do not understand the apple one try the olive oil one i feel it easier to understand
apple
Apples when consumed feed the good bacteria in the gut but not the bad. Now how can the apple differentiate between good and bad. If a bunch of nothing created the universe would not the apple feed both good germs and bad germs. Just like how a bar of soap kills all germs not just the bad ones. a bar of soap is not intelligent and can not discern good and evil. The us military can discern between good and evil because they have intelligence for example the us military attacks a foreign country's military force and not there civilian force. If god created the universe it makes sense that the apple can distinguish good and bad germs. like the us military. But if a bunch of nothing created the universe would not the apple feed both good and bad bacteria because it can not differentiate the two.Just like how a bar of soap kills both good and bad germs
olive oil
Olive oil kills cancer cells but spares good cells if god created the universe it makes sense that olive oil can tell the difference between good cells and cancer cells. But if a bunch of nothing created olive oil would not the olive oil kill both good cells and cancer cells. Because inanimate objects can not tell the difference between good and bad. For example the doctors use this treatment called chemotherapy. Chemotherapy is a treatment for cancer were the physician poisons his patience in the hope that the poison kill the cancer cells but because the poison can not tell the difference between good cells and cancer cells it just kills them all and the doctors hope that the good cells grow back. So if a bunch of nothing created the universe would not olive oil work like chemotherapy.
A tornado can not tell the difference between someone house and a stupid tree and the tornado destroys both. This is the same as chemotherapy it destroys good cells and bad cells aka cancer cells because it can not discern the two
But if a tornado destroys only stupid trees and does not destroy peoples houses that is god discerning between good and bad. Just like how olive oil attacks cancer cells but spares good cells because it is god who created it to discern the two.
how can medical properties get in plants if it was not god
the turmeric roots heal a damaged brain via 270 known pathways.
This was written by the founder of green med info
DNA repair system try's to prevent mutations
the preacher who is on the radio.i listen to chuck swindoll talks about how evolution is impossible because the body dna repair system trys to prevent mutations
Our DNA repair system try's to prevent mutations a few. they mostly get by because of the chemicals in our food
but in general its efficient. But surely would not the DNA repair system prevent a monkey from turning into a human. plus i have only ever seen bad mutations like autism. the only good mutations i hear about are evolution fair tale ones.
If billions of creatures evolved should we not have at least one completed line of pr evolved creatures. Like the billion pr evolved creatures there would have to be like there the monkey to human line. There should billions of completed fossil for that one line. most scientist did up bone of like 3 different animals and take parts from it to create one animal this is what Lucy and Piltdown are just human bones mixed with monkey bones.
Rebuttal
that is outdated science they have discovered that the appendix helps with the immune system. Which is why it gets a lot of toxins in it and you have to have it removed. Everybody part has a function because god designed it. Before you get into food there is nothing natural about corn or banana there as man made as you can get.
Your really pushing it to call those legs on whales. i could claim a branch on the tree to be a leg because it is straight like a leg. or even my spine to be a leg.
I chose seasonal creatures specifically on purpose. because i was waiting for you to say
So? What’s your point? There are many animals that don’t turn white when winter comes: tigers, bears, dogs, birds, horses. There are many plants which aren’t green. Just because two things in nature have the same color doesn’t prove intelligent design.
firstly seasonal creatures are different every winter they turn brown to pure white. there is no way you can prove that they did anything but this. yes many plants are not green but when those come up it is because god is decorating. for example flowers and if you want to include animals in that statement spotted animals are a result of god decorating. now you can not say a green frog is not green to blend in with it swampy green environment. Because you would be saying evolution is wrong. Just because there are animals that do not follow this it does not make what i said any less true
con said
Weasels become white during the winter because of evolution. In the past, weasels didn’t turn white when winter came. But at one point, a weasel was born that turned white during winter,
reply what caused the weasel that was born to turn white. there is nothing to cause that
con said
Your claim about animals having four legs is right. But this isn’t because of a God, it’s because of evolution. How come we never see five-legged animals? Because it’s harder to run with an odd number of legs. Animals with an odd number of legs died out, and only four-legged ones were left. But the fact that a lot of animals share different characteristics isn’t proof of intelligent design. Rather, it is proof that the characteristics which the animals share gives them an evolutionary advantage. Running around with six feet is slower than running around with four feet. We don’t need six feet instead of four. We don’t need ten eyes instead of two. We don’t need more than one mouth. There are no evolutionary benefits to having ten feet, or sixty eyes, or five mouths. That’s why animals don’t have them, not because of intelligent design.
Why do animals have two eyes? To see left and right.
Why do animals have two ears? To hear left and right.
Why do animals have one mouth and one nose? Because more than one aren’t necessary.
Evolution.
Reply
were are these 5 legged creatures that died out. there should be fossil evidence of at least one fossils evidence. if what you say is true there should be as many 5 legged animal bones as there are 4 legged animal bones. evolution claims a lot of bull### but they have not claimed to have found a five legged version of a creature
why would a lizard turn into an giraffe but everything changes except them having 4 legs 2 eyes 1 nose 1 mouth and 4 legs. god did not create animals with extra body parts like 5 legs because it is unnecessary
when you say something like
. Running around with six feet is slower than running around with four feet.
it makes more sense that god did not create animals with 6 feet because they would be faster with 4 feet.
my conclusion does not need absurd evidence that does not exist.
I do not need to lie like most evolution scientist.
for example Dr heckle a long time ago before xray machines. Dr heckles drew a bunch of pictures of embryo. but
the embryo did not support evolution so he drew a picture of an embryo with a bunch of body parts from other creatures. and told everyone that is what aan embro looked like. the average person at the time did not know what an embryo looked like. only the scientist. But now because of xray technology we know that human embryo do not have monkey like parts.
Evolution people are like the Bigfoot people. They have had so many missing links that ended up being a mixture of human bones and monkkey bones it is insane looking at you pitfall man and Lucy
the last bit is he says a few example and calls me a cherry picker its the other way around god did not create everything the same.
Con
#4
REBUTTALS:
"Apples when consumed feed the good bacteria in the gut but not the bad."
Again, you're cherrypicking. A single fruit being beneficial to the human body isn't proof of intelligent creation. I could point to ten foods that feed both the good and bad bacteria in the gut. Your argument is similar to the "Banana fits perfectly into the human hand" argument. Sure, a banana fits perfectly into a human hand, but a pineapple does not.
"Olive oil kills cancer cells but spares good cells if god created the universe it makes sense that olive oil can tell the difference between good cells and cancer cells."
Olive oil is made by humans, not God. If we never figured out that we can get oil from olives, there would never be any olive oil. What you're saying is like pointing to a cure and claiming God exists because we managed to make that cure. There are many foods which don't cure cancer. You're cherrypicking again.
"But if a bunch of nothing created olive oil would not the olive oil kill both good cells and cancer cells."
So according to your logic, the fact that olive oil doesn't kill healthy cells is proof of God. But there are many things that kill both healthy and unhealthy cells! Like chemotherapy, for example. Wasn't chemotherapy made by God, according to your logic? Wasn't bleach, which also kills all cells, made by God? Aren't tornadoes, which destroy both trees and houses, also made by God? Where is the logic in your statements?
"DNA repair system tries to prevent mutations."
Mutation in animals is proven by the evolution of peppered moths. Before the Industrial Revolution came to London, smoke in the city was white. All moths where white, and moths that were born black died since their chance of survival was much lower. But after the Industrial Revolution, factories released black smoke, and so the moth population became white. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peppered_moth_evolution). If mutation is impossible, then how did the moths become black? You're right, the DNA system tries to prevent mutations. Tries. But doesn't always succeed.
"What caused the weasel that was born to turn white?"
Mutation. But keep in mind, it wasn't just a weasel that was born white from brown parents. His parents where also whiter than other weasels, and their parents were also whiter than other weasels, and so on. Eventually, the brown weasels died because the white ones had a higher chance of surviving during the winter.
My opponent understands very little about the theory of evolution. He says things like "There is nothing to cause a weasel to turn white during the winter", "Why would a lizard turn into a giraffe", "Human embryo doesn't have monkey-like parts". Evolution is not a lizard magically giving birth to a giraffe. Evolution is not a monkey giving birth to a human.
Evolution is small, random genetic mutations at birth which give animals advantages. Animals with these mutations eventually take over, and the animals without them die out. This process takes millions of years. That's all evolution is.
ARGUMENTS:
My argument still stands. If life was created intelligently, why would animals have pointless organs and dangerous flaws? Why would the creator allow animals to get sick and die? If life was created intelligently, then why do species die out like the dinosaurs did? If the creator was truly intelligent he would pick his best blueprint and only make animals based on that blueprint, not create thousands of species that die out all the time. My opponent's only arguments are cherrypicking similarities between some animals and the healing properties of some fruits and herbs. This is not proof. My opponent has no proof, only speculation. This is why evolution is right, and there was no intelligent creator.
Round 3
Pro
#5
your saying the whale have evidence of legs. That means your saying it was a land animal and it's evolution went backwards until it was a fish. lol. there all liars
A whale being a land critter goes against the evolution theory. The theory goes that land animals appeared because some fish only some over time grew legs and walked up on land.
.
There fossil evidence sucks.
evolution says humans came to be 200 thousand years ago. ferns popped up 360 million years ago according to fossil evidence.
ferns have properties that help female with breast problems menopausal problems period stuff. it is very clearly meant to help a female human.
how does the fern have medical properties that help females humans. if humans did not come into existence for another 360 million years.
dogs have period prob but the do not have breasts. chicken have breast but the do not have period problems this was designed to help humans girls.
If plants have properties that help humans. how did they get in the plants the creator would have to have humans in mind when he created the ferns. A bunch of nothing can not say
hay i created these humans i better put medicine in these plants to help them out. but god can.
evolution is impossible
you say that evolution is just millions of tiny mutation that results in one big change.
what about foods that repair DNA like green tea turmeric etc. if i drink green tea would i unevolve.
Because my green tee repairs tiny mutations will my evolution go backwards like the whale????
how did DNA repair food get DNA repair properties if it was not god. you need to explain how medical properties got into plants for the sake of your argument.
medical properties in plants are one of the biggest evidence for god. do not ignore my turmeric healing a damaged brain via 270 known pathways argument from last post.
the DNA repair system is not flawed enough were it would not stop a monkey being turned into a human.
There no reason why it would not stop this. Sure it fails in some instances but so does our hearts and everything else in our body.
olive oil is made from god. we humans take olives and extract the oil from them. just like l all the essential oils.there a lot of them to many to count. god created olive the oil is part of the olive. So he created that to
cons argument has no argument. Cons argument is i can not use god created apples to feed good bacteria in the gut as an argument.
Because oranges do not feed good bacteria in the gut.
Again, you're cherrypicking. A single fruit being beneficial to the human body isn't proof of intelligent creation. I could point to ten foods that feed both the good and bad bacteria in the gut. Your argument is similar to the "Banana fits perfectly into the human hand" argument. Sure, a banana fits perfectly into a human hand, but a pineapple does not.
God did not create all plants with the same health benefits.
And god did not create all plants to be used by humans. Con seems to believe that i am saying that the apple being beneficial to humans means god created it. Which is true.
But i was making the claim that because it can differentiate between two thing. It means god created it. But before i get into that con says he can show me 10 fruit that when humans consume feed both good and bad bacteria.
Nothing like this exist because because god created stuff like apples to be eaten.
do not try to back out of this and show me a poisonous plants. God did not create those for us to eat. There are poisonous to keep bugs off them.
and just because its poisonous to us does not mean its not a food source. we can not eat raw meat but dogs can.
Many Christians say there are poisons plants because god cursed the ground after Adam ate the forbidden fruit.
the reason con believe that there are fruits that can feed both good and bad bacteria in the gut is because he believes that the universe was created by nothing.
This would be the case if the universe came from nothing. The apple would feed good and bad bacteria just like how a bar of soap kills both good and bad bacteria and can not discern the two things because it is not intelligent.
but because it can discern between good and bad it means god. Because the apple feeds the good bacteria and knows it should not feed the bad that is intelligence and discerning between two things which is a form of thinking.
just like how god will discern the people who have deny him and the people who believe in him and place them in either hell or heaven.
or how the us military attacks an enemy country's military force but spares there civilian force.
This is a form of intelligence. you mean to tell me that you bunch of nothing that created the universe is intelligent.
Only an intelligent being can differentiate between things. So only humans and or god would be able to do these thing. Because it would require intelligence.
obliviously inanimate objects can not differentiate things. so why are you saying a bunch of nothing created life.
So the stuff made below is made by god and man because it can differentiate. if it was not created by god it would not be able to differentiate between two things.
examples of my logic
.olive oil can discern between two thing. it kills cancer cells while leaving the good cells alone. because god could differentiate the bad cells and good cells.
He knew that he should attack the cells not working while leaving the good cells alone.
If a bunch of nothing created life the nothing. how would nothing be able to know the cancer cell is bad and it should spare the good cells. The answer is a bunch of nothing could not differentiate because it is an inanimate object it. if a bunch of nothing created olive oil it would work just like how chemotherapy attacks both cancer cells and normal cells because it can not differentiate,
other differentiating that need to be addressed.
people can not discern real from fiction and they believe that believing in Jesus is the same as believing in Santa
if you believe this it is not you fault. Satan planned this. Santa is just Satan rearranged. both Santa clause and Satan both wear red.
What is Santa last name. It is claws. Satan greatest trick was convincing the world he never existed. like the bible says.
why you assume
if life was created by nothing. Like you believe. The apple would feed both good and bad bacteria. which is why you believe that you can come up with ten fruit that do this.
But this is not the case god created the apple. god knew that if the apple when consume fed the bad bacteria in the gut that it would spell trouble.
So he designed it to only feed the good bacteria in the gut.
same thing with the appendix in my last post i show that the appendix is a safe house for good germs. it protects good germs from bad germs. it does this because god knew that bad germs are bad. and good germs would need help against them.
just like if there is a hornets nest in my barn and a beehive. i know that the beehive is good it produces honey and helps the wildlife so i do not destroy it. But the hornets nest has to go so i terminate it. this is a form of thinking. think here. can inanimate object do this. and be like this is bad kill it. this is good spare it.no if anything it would effect both because it can not differentiate. instead if life was created by nothing the appendix would not know that bad germs are bad and good germ are good and would house both of them. and would not be a safe house for good germs.. if life was created by nothing the
creation vs evolution
.the Alaskan owls are white to go with the white snow not evolution
.god created the desert owl yellow to go with the yellow desert
. just like if i wear a red shirt so i wear red pants to go with it
or Santa is colored red so he colors his sleigh red to go with it.
god created trees green to go with the green grass. you are right when you say not all plants are green. there are blue flowers red flowers pink flowers yellow flowers. but when god does this he is decorating and making life beautiful.
same thing with animals god did not create all animals the color that there environment are.
He colored them with cool spots on them like the Dalmatian. the dogs fire fighters use. when god does this he must be decorating.
con still clings that there are useless body parts. firstly the appendix helps the immune system it is even a safe house for good germs. the stuff you posted is outdated science.
just because do not know its function does not mean it does not have a function.
con claims that moths evolved and changed colors when the smoke from factories changed. . everything but the evolution is true. you know when you catch a butterfly powdery
stuff gets on your hands. god created the powdery stuff to stay on because they need it to fly.so when the white smoke hit the moths the white smoke would not come off
because it has that design for that kind of smog to permanently stay on because of the powder that does not come off with wind.
so the white smoke permanently dye the moths white. but when the black smoke hit they smoke dyed them black. then a hundreds of years later.
The stupid scientist looked back and said this must be evolution with no evidence because they were not there. and it would be impossible for them to test there theory.
it is nearly impossible for the white smoke not to color them white simply because of the sticky ability they have. because they need to keep there flying powder on.
Con
#6
REBUTTALS:
"You're saying the whale has evidence of legs. That means you're saying it was a land animal and its evolution went backwards until it was a fish."
The whale does have evidence of legs. The first whales swam by wiggling their large hind legs, but this was slower than swimming with a tail. That's why whales evolved to swim without hind legs. (https://www.livescience.com/7564-early-whales-legs.html). The whales that swam with hind legs died out, and the whales that swam with tails replaced them. The whales still have legs inside their bodies because being born without these legs doesn't give whales an advantage, meaning the whales with legs inside their bodies have no reason to die out. Evolution cannot "go backwards", it has no goal. Also, a whale is not a fish, it's a mammal.
Evolution says humans came to be 200 thousand years ago. ferns popped up 360 million years ago according to fossil evidence. Ferns have properties that help female with breast problems menopausal problems period stuff. it is very clearly meant to help a female human.
Cherrypicking the medical properties of some plants doesn't prove the existence of an intelligent creator. If the creator was intelligent, he wouldn't give women menopausal problems and breast problems in the first place. There are also many plants that have no medical properties, and some plants that are harmful to humans. Why would the creator create those?
You say that evolution is just millions of tiny mutation that results in one big change.
I literally never said this. Evolution is tiny mutations at birth that give some animals advantages over others, which causes the animals without advantages to die out. This process takes millions of years. That's all evolution is.
The DNA repair system is not flawed enough were it would not stop a monkey being turned into a human.There no reason why it would not stop this. Sure it fails in some instances but so does our hearts and everything else in our body.
If the DNA repair system is flawless, why are humans born without fingers? With four hands? With no eyesight? Why does that happen if the DNA repair system is flawless? And if it's not flawless, then why can't evolution happen?
I will not debunk all of Pro's ludicrous claims, such as that Santa is Satan even though Santa is a Christian saint. There simply wouldn't be enough space for it. But here is my argument:
ARGUMENTS:
Pro suggests that because some foods have medical properties, and some animals are colored like the environment they live in, an intelligent creator must exist. This is untrue.
Some plants do have medical properties. But hundreds of plants are harmful to humans! Pro dismisses this argument by saying "God didn't mean for the harmful plants to be eaten". But then why can't humans differentiate between good and bad plants? Many people die from eating poisonous berries and plants every year. The only reason we know some plants are harmful is because some people tried these plants and died. Similarly, the only reason we know some plants are good is because some people tried these plants and were healed. God didn't tell us which foods were harmful and which weren't, we figured that out ourselves.
Some animals are colored like the environment they live in. Areas with lots of snow are inhabited by white owls. But this is because of evolution, not intelligent design! Animals that are colored like the environment they live in have two advantages: they cannot be seen by their predators and they cannot be seen by their prey. This gives them an advantage over the animals that are colored differently. Eventually, the animals that are colored differently die out and only the animals that are colored like the environment they live in remain. This is exactly what evolution is: random mutations at birth which give some animals an advantage over animals without those mutations.
I suggest an experiment: release a hundred desert owls into the Arctic. You will find that after some time, the descendants will be more white than the owls that were first released. This is proof of evolution. Proof of evolution is everywhere. Denying evolution in favor of an intelligent creator because olive oil kills cancer cells and Arctic owls are white is ridiculous. I'm not even sure if my opponent is serious about his beliefs, judging from his comments about Santa being the Devil.
Round 4
Pro
#7
If life was created by an intelligent being
we would see evidence of
. thinking
.intelligence
knowledge
we would see these things because those things can only be done by an intelligent being. A bunch of nothing can not think have intelligence or thoughts. Only an intelligent being has those quality's. If life is created by an intelligent being we should see evidence of god using thinking intelligence and knowledge in his creations
here is evidence of the creator using thinking intelligence and knowledge in his creations.
evidence thinking
god was thinking of people with stuttering problems when he creating sweet flag roots. we know this because god designed sweet flag to help with stuttering problems and humans are the only creature who can talk and are the only creature that can have stuttering problems
big pharma was thinking of people with diabetes when they were creating diabetes drugs. We know this because they design the drug to help with insulin because people with diabetes can not produce there own insulin.
god was thinking of people with noodle brains when creating turmeric. we know this because god created turmeric to heal a brain via 270 known pathways. and the only reason he would do that is if he wanted to help noodle brains.
god was thinking about the joey of a kangaroo when creating the kangaroo. we know this because he designed the kangaroo with little pouch for the joey to ride in.
carnival ride makers were thinking about there customers when creating carnival rides. we know this because they put seat belts in the rides so the customers won't get hurt.
god was thinking about how dark nighttime is when creating owls. We know this because god knew that it is dark during the night so applied this knowledge and designed night time creatures like the owl with night vision.
created things that show god using knowledge
god had knowledge that the dog would be hot during the summer. so he applied this knowledge and designed the dog to shed its fur so that it can cool off during the summer
just like how a person in fire country builds his house out of metal instead of wood because he has knowledge that metal can not be burnt down
or if i build my house away from the beach because i have knowledge that beach houses flood
or if god designed the dog to grow more fur during the winter because he has knowledge that it is cold during the winter and it would need a way to keep warm
evidence of intelligence
god would have needed great intelligence to create turmeric with the properties that heals a damaged brain. firstly he would have needed to identify 270 pathways to use in order to get turmeric roots to the brain to heal it. the creator would have needed intelligence of at least 1000 neurosurgeon in order to learn how to heal a damaged brain
god used intelligence when he created the seasonal creatures. we knows this because he designed them to turn white to go with the white snow. and he had knowledge that white goes well with white
just like how i use intelligence and i decide to wear red pants because i knew that it would go well with my red shirt. because there both red
or how a race car driver uses intelligence and wears a green uniform to go with my green car. because he knowledge red uniforms do not go with green cars.
an easier explanation for what i have been trying to say with differentiating
ps smart soap does not exist i needed an example i made it up.
normal soap kills both good and bad bacteria because the soap is not intelligent and can not discern the two.
so scientist created this soap called smart soap. Smart soap kills the bad bacteria while sparring the good bacteria. it is called smart soap because it has evidence of intelligence.
it took a lot of thinking when creating smart soap. The scientist had to discern between good and bad germs and have knowledge to only kill the bad germs. They also had to figure out how to create a substance that kills bad germs but leaves good ones alone. figuring that out would take a lot of thought.
if life was created by god there would be things that work like smart soap. but if life was created by nothing it would work like normal soap.
life does work like smart soap.
the apple feeds the good bacteria while not feeding the bad bacteria in the gut. like smart soap. for this to happen it would require thinking.
god would have to know that bad bacteria is bad and that he should only feed the good bacteria. then figure out how to make it wear the apple only feed the good bacteria without feeding the bad.
the apple is just like how the made up scientist had to figure out how to create the smart soap to only kill the bad bacteria without harming the good. if the apple needed thinking in order for it to be created then how did a bunch of nothing create it.
life shows evidence of god thinking through the apple. just like smart soap shows evidence of the scientist thinking. thinking can only be done by a person of knowledge thus life was created intelligently.
if life was not like smart soap it would look like this.
if life was created by nothing the apple would work like a bar of soap and like how the soap kills both good and bad bacteria the apple would feed both good and bad bacteria. con thought there were ten fruits that fed both good and bad bacteria he thought this because that is what it would be if life was created by nothing.
Rebuttal
i said Evolution says humans came to be 200 thousand years ago. ferns popped up 360 million years ago according to fossil evidence. Ferns have properties that help female with breast problems menopausal problems period stuff. it is very clearly meant to help a female human.
con said Evolution says humans came to be 200 thousand years ago. ferns popped up 360 million years ago according to fossil evidence. Ferns have properties that help female with breast problems menopausal problems period stuff. it is very clearly meant to help a female human.con said Cherrypicking the medical properties of some plants doesn't prove the existence of an intelligent creator. If the creator was intelligent, he wouldn't give women menopausal problems and breast problems in the first place. There are also many plants that have no medical properties, and some plants that are harmful to humans. Why would the creator create those?
firstly your claiming that i can not use apple feed both good and bad germs as an argument because oranges do not feed good and bad bacteria. and just because there are poison plants does not mean that plants with medical properties do not exist. its like saying i can not use land animals as an example because there are sea creatures. look think about how much thinking it would take to create turmeric, your bunch of nothing to create turmeric healing 270 pathways to heal a damaged brain should not be ignored. it would take a lot of thinking in order to do this. and your bunch of nothing can not think. a bunch of nothing can not traverse the brain via 270 known pathways. not even Nero surgeons can do that. that is only something god can do thus god created turmeric.
i also said it is believed god cursed the ground after Adam ate from the tree. god only had one plant that we could not eat from. but now we have several plants because there poison because of Adams sin. why can't we differentiate between good and bad plants. we can god colored them. somehow Indians were aware of the medical properties in plants
you did not answer the question. you avoided it with a question..
and our body get diseases because adam sinned
and for the whale thing just because we do not know its function does not mean it has none just like the appendix.
they also forged some whale fossils. so what are the chances your bones are real
it says
Dr. Werner documented that blowholes were added to skeletal models of the walking whales Pakicetus and Ambulocetus even though fossil evidence of the blowhole region had not been found; a whale’s tail (fluke) was added to the walking whale Rodhocetus except no tail fossils had been found; and front fins were added to the walking whales Rodhocetus and Pakicetus when fossils of fins did not exist. According to Dr. Werner
and this guy has quiet the list against evolution
article says
how the weasel became white
there is still nothing to cause a weasel to evolve white.
con said a mutation caused i to be born white if so then what caused the mutation. living in the white snow.
I suggest an experiment: release a hundred desert owls into the Arctic. You will find that after some time, the descendants will be more white than the owls that were first released
no dessert owls baby's would be white because the desert owls will mate with local arctic owls.
and obviously the desert owls would not survive
god created the desert owl to go with the yellow desert
or how i build a blue house so i color the mailbox blue two
god also created the desert owl yellow so that it can hide better in the desert if that is taken away it would die easier
dna repair system
the dna repair system is not flawless our dna repair system does screw up sometimes. mostly this generation since mental illness is everywhere. and back before our chemical filled diets the only mentally ill people that were the kings and queens offspring who were incest. and you almost saw no one else with that kind of problem. im sure it did happen but was rare.like blindness
but that's why god made dna repair food.
again if i eat my dna repair food would i evolve back into a monkey since i am fixing my mutations
Con
#8
My opponent still does not understand what evolution is. Evolution is not monkeys giving birth to people. You can't reverse evolution and become a monkey. Evolution is tiny, random mutations at birth which give some animals advantage over other animals. Eventually, the animals without those advantages die out. This process takes millions of years. That's all evolution is.
ARGUMENTS:
Every single one of Pro's arguments can be explained by evolution. Why do kangoroos have pouches? Evolution. Why do some animals shed fur? Evolution. Why do some animals change color? Evolution. All of these characteristics give animals evolutionary advantages, and that's why they have them. Many animals do not have these advantages, because they are less evolved. If God was intelligent, his creations wouldn't have any flaws. But they clearly do, which is proven by useless and flawed organs, extinctions, and diseases.
My opponent clearly does not understand what evolution is. If you ask questions like, "If eat my DNA repair food would I evolve back into a monkey?", that means you understand absolutely nothing about evolution. You can't change the mutations with "repair food" because they're not broken. You can't repair a perfectly working laptop, can you? Also, a human cannot turn into a monkey, that is scientifically impossible. And evolution isn't monkeys magically turning into humans, it's a complicated process of genetic mutations that give some animals advantages over others.
Pro thinks that he can win this debate by just repeating the same arguments over and over. He denies the existence of random mutations in animals, which is a scientifically proven fact. He denies the existence of evolution, which is also a scientific fact. I suggest my opponent learns more about evolution before trying to "debunk" it. Here:
TheAtheist out.
Criterion
Pro
Tie
Con
Points
Better arguments
3 point(s)
Better sources
2 point(s)
Better legibility
1 point(s)
Better conduct
1 point(s)
Reason:
Gift: Affirming the Consequent by Repetition does not make something true.
S&G: I don't know if I've ever given this for formatting before, but the level of bad made it difficulty to read, rendering much of pro's case incomprehensible (I should never have to copy things to word, to fix the formatting before analyzing arguments). I suspect this was an effort to pad the arguments to make them look big, as was seen on the first point about how all mammals have four legs requiring pages of scrolling. An example of these errors is the unending streams of underlined text.
Arguments: pro made an okay argument for unintelligent design as seen with FSM, but not for intelligent design as seen with whatever religion he is. He could not find any intelligent use of legs in whales, when that structure was so much of his case. Pro could not find how Appendicitis is good, rather than a flaw. Pro's argument that everything we eat is healthy was easily countered by the number of unhealthy things we could try to eat. The owl one was another bad one, it outright requires God having no imagination (why stick with owls, and not something of a whole different form suited perfectly for the area of operation?), con's counter that selective breeding and death lead to the colors seen today was outright likely, unlike the explanation that God perfectly placed each owl and colored it individually...
Conduct: I strongly suspect pro plagiarized parts of his case, but without verification I am leaving conduct tied.
Criterion
Pro
Tie
Con
Points
Better arguments
3 point(s)
Better sources
2 point(s)
Better legibility
1 point(s)
Better conduct
1 point(s)
Reason:
Pro round1. Pro does not provide his burden of proof.
In his opening round, he shows some aspects of life appear to be non random. Even if accept this, it does not affirm the resolution. Intelligent != non random.
He also asserts that the reason the weasels skin changes in winter for aesthetics. He doesn’t support this point with an argument.
Cons rebuttal was to point this out - but also to point out the optimal generated traits of evolution, and to explain that life is rarely optimal and contains a number of examples where life appears not to be intelligently designed.
Pro throws out a long list of examples of coincidental positive things - which con points out is cherry picking given the non optimality.
He doesn’t address the main issue of key flaws in life. A majority of his response is simply a denial of the examples brought by con.
The rest of the debate was much of the same - pro simply re-iterating his argument, and con pointing out that there are still flaws.
What it comes down to here - is that not only does pro not sufficiently warrant his claims by clearly explaining the properties of life, and why they necessarily require a creator - but pro clearly shows pro is cherry picking, with key counter examples, and examples of cases where even pros own arguments do not hold true regarding poisonous food and the DNA repair system being insufficient. Pros only response is to beg the question - and effectively highlights the circularity of his position.
Given this, I cant accept pros argument as sufficient to meet his burden.
From an evolutionary standpoint - I would have liked con to have done more to express the validity of evolution: and to address in some limited sense the issues about evolution presented by con - but this was mostly a secondary point, and didn’t effect the outcome.
It’s important to stress though, as if con was up against someone better, leaving a key point unaddressed can be tactically dangerous.
With this being said, as imo pro has the burden, and didn’t meat it - arguments to con.
Conduct: pro appeared to focus primarily on overloading his opponent with examples rather than focusing on providing a justification for those claims. When your reasoning is largely assertion, the voluminous examples mean that con has no chance to address everything rendering most of pros case a Gish Gallop.
This attempt to overload his opponent without appropriately justifying his points is clearly substantially disrespectful and warrants a conduct violation.
Im UP FOR ROUND 2
No they weren't my friends. What further debates are you planning. I dont Run away from them I always post.
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Dr. Franklin,
YOUR WISHFUL THINKING QUOTE: "No evidence!!! and you lost against me"
I allegedly lost because of only THREE VOTERS which were your friends that obviously felt sorry for you, and by the fact that it was okay for said voters for you to use YOUR OPINION, WISHFUL THINKING, AND HEARSAY! Whereas, the most embarrassing thing you did in your debate is to show us your SATANIC ignorance in not using the correct Hebrew word for "circle!" You will never live this faux pas down! LOL!
I am planning further debates with you, and I hope that you will NOT RUN AWAY FROM THEM IN THE NAME OF SATAN, AGREED? Hang on to your underwear when you will be challenged and shown to be the ignorant fake Christian fool that you are!
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Ragnar,
YOUR QUOTE: "Given that number of animals that the bible calls unclean, do you think God made them all intelligently?"
To address your question, and knowing that we humans are animals, then I would say that Dr. Franklin is one of the dumbest of all animals relative to his assumed Christian faith. With that being said, seemingly the Koala is the dumbest of all animals and I don't know why Yahweh/Jesus made them this way.
What I have always had a problem with in regards to unclean animals, barring if they were intelligent or not, is the biblical FACT that Noah's Ark contained over 19.2 MILLION specie of animals, along with an equal abundance of insect species that were on the ocean for 371 days! (Genesis 8:15–19). "Take with you seven pairs of every kind of clean animal, a male and its mate, and one pair of every kind of unclean animal, a male and its mate," (Genesis 7:2).
For the mathematically challenged, the verse above states that 7 pairs of clean animals = 14, plus 1 pair of unclean animal = 2. 14+2=16 OF EACH SPECIE. Now, thus far, there’re 1.2 million different species on earth, then x 16 pairs = 19.2 million species that had to be on Noah’s Ark! Imagine the clean up of that amount of animal waste for almost a year on the ocean. Our Jesus God had a sense of humor for sure. Of course, this is barring all of the different dinosaurs that our Yahweh/Jesus made, being more of a problem for Noah and family.
Yes, we TRUE Christians, like myself, have to swallow a lot of outlandish stuff and be hated because of doing so, if we want to believe in our Jesus! (Matthew 10:22)
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YOUR EVIL SATANIC BAD UNGODLIKE QOUTE: "I am glad that you admit to your MO of repeating your Devil Speak over and over here at Debateart!"
No evidence!!! and you lost against me
Given that number of animals that the bible calls unclean, do you think God made them all intelligently?
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Dr. Franklin,
YOUR QUOTE: "true"
I am glad that you admit to your MO of repeating your Devil Speak over and over here at Debateart!
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true
It's impossible to debate with these idiots. They just repeat the same nonsense over and over like a broken recorder.
Diseases doesn't automatically mean cancer. IQ of 10. Fucking idiot. I swear you get dumber and dumber every day. DO YOU KNOW THERE IS A RECEIVER BAR. HOW MANY TIMES.
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Dr. Franklin,
Sometimes I think you are kidding me, because why else would you make such an inept statement?
YOUR QUOTE: "Never mentioned cancer"
WTF?! CANCER is as much of a disease as any other, where "crossed" stated there are plants to heal DISEASES, GET IT? Don't parse diseases in that manner, or I'll have to bible slap you again! Understood? The situation never mentioned in how dumbfounded you are regarding our bible, therefore, in turn, does this make sense to the situation? NO IT DOES NOT! GET IT?
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"heal such diseases"
Never mentioned cancer
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Crossed,
YOUR QUOTE: "the fact he created plants with medical properties in plants to heal such diseases."
OMG, you mean there is a plant on Jesus' earth that cures cancer 100 percent?!!! PLEASE tell me what the name of that plant is, and where it can be purchased because I have a few friends with cancer! Awaiting your quick response, thank you.
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here is a picture of an animal with 5 legs. Guess what? It has a handicap that decreases it's ability to survive.
https://imgflip.com/i/334cb7
1.) Since when does olive oil cure cancer?
2.) Apples provide nutrients, which is what the good cells rely on, but then, the bad cells feed on the good cells. Just because nutrients aren't given directly to the cells doesn't mean they don't get to them.
3.) If apples help our immune system, that doesn't mean god made them that way, it means that humans chose the right fruit. We bent around evolution, it didn't bend around us.
4.) You've gotten me riled up, and I want to challenge you for the same debate
Why would God let us get sick in the first place, if his designs are perfect?
don't worry. the sickness that the body receives leaves room for one of the biggest proofs of god. the fact he created plants with medical properties in plants to heal such diseases. Which proves god absolutely there is no science explanation. The Indians took advantage of this why don't we
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Crossed,
Whatever you do regarding the “intelligent design” discussion, please don’t bring forth that our bodies are prone to colds, gastroenteritis, allergies, autoimmune diseases; and where sometimes, children are born with malformed hearts . Of course, the worst case is that if we live long enough there is a huge chance that we will get cancer. As you can see, the human body is the last thing that we TRUE Christians should use in the intelligent design theory.
Furthermore, and especially, DO NOT bring up the human eye as intelligent design!!! As a TRUE Christian, I have to accept that when Jesus designed it, as Yahweh God incarnate, it is troubled with needing eyeglasses, glaucoma, Astigmatism, Cataracts, Color Blindness, Macular Degeneration, Myopia, and other eye problems. Therefore, the eye should never be used in the “intelligent design” discussion.
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thanks.
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CROSSED,
Lest you forget, Jesus' inspired words stated that you missed a four-footed creation of his, which is the following: "All flying insects that walk on all fours are to be regarded as unclean by you.” (Leviticus 11:20) A 4-footed flying insect helps give foundation to the proof of our faith, praise!
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Alright
I snapped it together in like 4 minute. most of it is copy and paste from past post.
Please use capitalization. Otherwise it’s really hard to read what you write.
i'm glad they did the have one week to post 3 days became really hard