Instigator / Pro

If Santa was Real He Would be a Criminal


The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

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After 3 votes and with 13 points ahead, the winner is...

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Two days
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One week
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Contender / Con

No kritiks.

Round 1
I waive (in case of trolling and forfeiting). 

The title is actually written in a pseudo-past tense. This is supposed to be the subjunctive tense that uses ‘were’ instead of ‘was’.

The concept of ‘If Santa were real’ is 0% to do with the likelihood of his realism and instead is 70% what he does and how legal it would be and 30% how different the laws and structure of politics would be in a world where, in fact, he was real.

Definition of crime
1 : an illegal act for which someone can be punished by the government
especially : a gross violation of law
Definition of real
adjective UK   /rɪəl/ US /ˈriː.əl/
real adjective (NOT IMAGINARY)

A2 existing in fact and not imaginary:

Assuring the patient that she has a real and not imaginary problem is the first step.

There is a very real threat that he will lose his job.

I don’t think I need to go into Santa this Round unless my opponent insists. He is also known as Father Christmas and St. Nicholas. His full name under ‘Santa’ is Santa Claus… It comes from a mispronunciation of “Saint ‘Klaus” that Europeans with a strong accent would have where they put in an ‘a’ after the Saint and before the shortened version of Niklaus (which is how they spell it). The “Claus” was meant to be pronounced as in ‘house’ but the Brits along with Americans altered it over time to become like ‘pause’.


The UN would commend him and give him diplomatic immunity

I noticed in the comments, this was mentioned and Pro mentions that a supernatural being like Santa should in fact be controlled harsher but this is a debate about what would happen, not what should.

The UN is rooted in the idea that passivity and easy solutions are best, regardless of morality. This is shown by the very mechanism by which diplomatic immunity works and how it’s been exercised in the past. You never need diplomatic immunity unless you’re doing something criminal.

From Human Trafficking of severe degrees done by (not just involving, but engineered by) Diplomats from the UN, to murder to parking tickets and drunk driving... There's a whole spectrum of things you can completely and utterly get away with as UN Diplomats (not even official Ambassador for your nation, just a general Diplomat working for the UN).

Although most civil cases end with a dismissal, like Pahagas and Mendoza’s, the filing provides a basis for staying in the United States, because those suing their employers have temporary immigration relief in order to participate in legal proceedings connected with their case. It also provides recourse for when the diplomat goes back to their home country and their status shrinks back to residual immunity, and, as Vandenberg said, “they only have the defenses of a mere mortal.” This results in some cases being resolved out of court, because of the threat of future action. For the cases that don’t resolve, there is nothing to do but wait. And in terms of large-scale measures, there are provisions for the Department of State to stop issuing these visas to a country or a diplomatic organization. “The truly shameful thing is that no country has ever been suspended for in what some cases are egregious violations,” Vandenberg said.

“Edith is a mother along with most of our members, and has been away from home for years to support her family—it is an awful juxtaposition there,” Brease, from Damayan, said. Damayan continues to ask Koehler to pay the allegedly stolen wages and attorneys’ fees, for a total of over $360,000. “We also want diplomatic immunity to be dismissed as well as a public apology because he did this twice that we know of.”

For Mendoza, the result was extremely disappointing. “You know diplomats are covered by their immunity. If they committed crimes it is okay for them—they are protected,” she said to me. “But the workers like me are never protected. And, you know, I am also human.”

- Ramchandani, A. (2018). Diplomats Are Getting Away With Abusing Their Children's Nannies. [online] The Atlantic. Available at: [Accessed 6 Jul. 2019].

^ This is essentially the closest to any action ever seen against them.

Labor Trafficking is Not a New Problem, but It Requires New Solutions

Labor trafficking through diplomatic missions has long been an open secret, implicitly condoned by both the hosting and sending nations. For example, although the U.S. launched a criminal case against Bangladesh’s Deputy Consul General, Mohammed Islam in 2017, it appears that this case has been settled extrajudicially.[30] As a result, it is likely that Islam will not face criminal or other punishment. This cuts against the original purpose of diplomatic immunity which was to remove impediments to diplomats’ official duties, not enable their criminal behavior.[31] No aspect of human trafficking and few aspects of managing domestic help involve diplomatic functions. The value of applying diplomatic immunity to cases like Mohammed Islam’s is unclear. Diplomatic immunity should not trump constitutional and international prohibitions against slavery and indentured servitude. While immunity makes it challenging to hold foreign service officers accountable, there are mechanisms in place that, if fully utilized, can help to prevent this egregious crime from going unpunished.
- Jacob, M. and Davis, H. (2018). Human Trafficking: Diplomatic Immunity or Impunity? — The Michigan Journal of International Law. [online] The Michigan Journal of International Law. Available at: [Accessed 6 Jul. 2019].

If more proof is needed, I'd be happy to provide it. I will also notice that all policies made by the UN follow similar suit; they operate around doing as little as possible in an active sense and as much as possible in a passive, defensive manner. This is why when nukes came about, the response was to enable nukes in as many nations as possible unless that particular nation was highly suspected of sinister intent and disliked by other nations.

I assert, as Con, that Santa would be something the UN decided to work around and with as opposed to actively taking on in any manner.


Santa would be so popular that even if prosecuted, Jury Nullification would occur.

Both due to religion and the fact that he only pisses off the rich or societal irritating 'naughty ones', Santa is the legend that would not be messed with by any legal means whatsoever unless somehow he crash-landed in a dictatorship that had particular contempt for him. However, since he has third-eye vision to see the good and naughty so that's not going to happen, since he'd see every detail beforehand or at least during.

^ In 2015, Christianity was the most popular religion, having 2.3 Billion vs Islam's 1.8 Billion. If Santa was real in a blatant, physical sense it's extremely probable that to prevent people converting to Christianity, Sharia nations would alter the context of a "Saint Nicholas" to be part of the Bible that isn't the wrong part and would thus fit in with Islamic narrative and enable them to maintain a following. This is something Pro has to prove wrong, since it's fairly intuitive. If you combined both religions together in terms of nations they control by law, that's over half the world (or at least half) that now is going to be supporting Santa. Do you then think Hindu, Buddhist and Secular nations are in any way going to oppose free presents to their people, especially if it's given to the 'good and obedient' ones while being withheld from the 'naughty' ones? Don't kid yourself, the rich only have so much influence, they aren't going to mess with the entire poor when Santa is so supernatural and deeply fore-seeing that he'd see through everything beforehand.

I'll leave it at that for now.

Round 2
There is only one thing for me to do here, it is time to unleash the rap genius of Rational Maduuuuuumaneeeehhh! AWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Beat to Loop (right-click and click Loop if on computer otherwise you will need Youtube Music or something):

Note the phrase 'just deserts' is actually spelled that way and was an old English term referring to something in between desert and dessert that was giving you a harsh thing you thought would be a treat that you actually deserve.

Also note, Klaus is pronounced like 'house'.

Santa's a man of anonymous pleasure,
Throwing presents to peasants what an unpleasant-ass measure it would be to perjure the most trustworthy handler of treasure,
Some for your mother, don't even buy her that dress, you already know Santa's got better so just sit tight and 'fess up your dirt,
For if you're a sinner, no winner's prize is there for you after dinner, just-desert,
You wanna lie? Well Klaus's eye can see you flirt, he sees the things you do that push beneath the skirt.

So what if he comes and doesn't knock at the door? There'd likely be a consent-to-Santa list taken months before,
To assume all would be the same's only true for the decor, You're outta your mind if you think you can truly predict more,
Imagine corporations unable to starve you of the keys to a brothel that you own, full of whores,
And the old, abusive Pimp's lying there dead on the floor,
I aint saying Santa did it, I'm just saying he foresaw the blood pour,
He'd be an idol of the new world, now shut up and do your chores.
Round 3
I have too much work to do this week so VOTE CON.

hoogady boogady you been a good boy this year!
Round 4
Vote Con 
Ho! Ho! H... Wait, no I'll marry you and make you my lovely wedded elf!