Instigator / Con
32
1762
rating
45
debates
88.89%
won
Topic
#1690
Resolved: Thanksgiving should not be celebrated in the United States.
Status
Finished
The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.
Winner & statistics
After 5 votes and with 17 points ahead, the winner is...
MisterChris
Parameters
- Publication date
- Last updated date
- Type
- Standard
- Number of rounds
- 3
- Time for argument
- Two weeks
- Max argument characters
- 10,000
- Voting period
- One week
- Point system
- Multiple criterions
- Voting system
- Open
Contender / Pro
15
1395
rating
22
debates
20.45%
won
Description
I negate this resolution. By accepting, you are affirming.
Burden of Proof is shared
R1- Constructive.
R2- Rebuttals
R3- Defense/Closing Thoughts
Rules are simple:
1.No Kritiks
2.No New arguments made in final round
3.No trolling
4.No getting off topic
5.You must follow the Debate Structure
6.No Plagiarism
**ANY violation of these warrants loss of debate.
Round 1
Thanks, GeneralGrant, for accepting this debate.
I will not be presupposing any of PRO's positions so that I can avoid attacking strawmen. Instead, I will be presenting some arguments in favor of Thanksgiving.
1. Thanksgiving is one of the most inclusive holidays in existence.
No matter who you are, no matter your circumstance, you have blessings that you can be thankful for. This is one of the very few, very valuable traits that everyone in the United States shares. Given the animosity between the Pilgrims and the Natives, the fact that they could come together as two separate cultures to celebrate was phenomenal and memorable. Similarly, the animosity between the political parties, ethnicities, and social classes in the United States is higher than ever now. But Thanksgiving is a time to put those differences aside, and let all be included in the giving of thanks. Unity is rare, and whenever the opportunity presents itself to achieve it, it should be taken.
2. Giving Thanks is proven to be helpful in almost all facets of life.
Your brain literally changes on gratitude. The effects can be seen widely, as ThriveGlobal cites:
According to UCLA’s Mindfulness Awareness Research Center, regularly expressing gratitude (the quality of being thankful and readiness to show appreciation) literally changes the molecular structure of the brain, keeps the gray matter functioning, and makes us healthier and happier. In 2008, scientists first used fMRI to study gratitude. In the study the researchers measured brain activity of participants experiencing different emotions, and found that gratitude causes synchronized activation in multiple brain regions, and lights up parts of the brain’s reward pathways and the hypothalamus. In short, just like Prozac, gratitude can boost neurotransmitter serotonin and activate the brain stem to produce dopamine.
The effects of this can range from helping with anxiety and depression, to increasing activity and therefore increasing lifespans.
To conclude, why not be a little thankful?
Forfeited
Round 2
Well, it's a shame that this debate is going to waste. Extend.
I am sorry christopher_best, I actually agree with Thanksgiving, but I will play the devil's advocate. Sorry also about the last round the holiday's keep me busy.
Genocide of American Indians
We should not celebrate the lies that have been handed down to us trying to cover up the white supremacy and the racism that white people put on the Native Americans. While we should be thankful, why designate our Thanksgiving day on the day that remembers when Europeans came to America and began the genocide that can be proven by writers such as Churchill and Zinn. Maybe Thanksgiving day should be moved to another day that will not have to do with European supremacy.
Round 3
Thanks GeneralGrant!
Before I begin to rebut, I would like to make a couple observations.
1. Voters, while I am understanding of the business, keep in mind that GeneralGrant violated the previously agreed structure of this debate round when he forfeited, and then gave his constructive during the rebuttal round.
2. Thus far, my opponent has dropped all of my arguments so you can flow those through in my favor.
Now that this is established, I will rebut my opponent's point line for line.
We should not celebrate the lies that have been handed down to us trying to cover up the white supremacy and the racism that white people put on the Native Americans. While we should be thankful, why designate our Thanksgiving day on the day that remembers when Europeans came to America and began the genocide that can be proven by writers such as Churchill and Zinn.
My opponent links no sources to back up the idea that Thanksgiving has anything to do with genocide or celebrating white supremacy. However, in order to believe that Thanksgiving is racist, he must think that Thanksgiving itself is white supremacist by nature.
Let's clear some misconception up here: the settlers in the New World committed some major atrocities. However, to say that since atrocities happened far in the future, therefore the day of Thanksgiving is bad is a very warped line of logic. If we applied such logic to other holidays, no one of any origin would be able to celebrate anything. Should Germans not celebrate German Unity Day because of the World Wars and Holocaust? Should Christians not celebrate Christmas because of the crusades? Should Native Americans related to any of these tribes not celebrate any holidays because of their cannibalistic and violent past? Hopefully you see my point. We must separate unrelated historical events from our holidays. To properly say that Thanksgiving is racist, we must examine the holiday itself as it is alone.
In fact, the holiday itself stands for quite the opposite. We have historical documentation that lays out precisely what happened. There was 3 days of feasting between Plymouth colonists and Wampanoag Indians who were invited there BY the colonists, followed by a 50 year alliance of peace between the two groups. The whole point of the feast was to ignore notions of white supremacy and divide. That's why, when Abraham Lincoln made Thanksgiving a holiday in 1863, the entire purpose was to create unity and bridge racial/cultural divides left by the Civil War. To "heal the wounds" of a divided nation.
To start saying that Thanksgiving holiday is racist and we shouldn't celebrate it actually heightens racial tensions more and encourages white supremacy. It is simply counter-productive and divisive. Now you may say to move the holiday, but that does not solve anything since the date itself means nothing. The meaning is what is celebrated, and the meaning is also what is being attacked. If we want racism to be eliminated and if we want to celebrate inclusiveness, then I can't think of a better day than Thanksgiving. If we want to encourage division and racism, then we should move Thanksgiving all over the calendar because of completely unrelated historical events.
Pro wins. I am really bad at being a devil's advocate.
Ah... so it's the history that's racist! That's an interesting view, I never considered that before.
It might be interesting to note here that my father's family traces one line of ancestry right back to the Pilgrims. One ancestor performed the blessing on the Mayflower when it left from Leyden and his son came to America on a later immigration. I am a direct beneficiary of the Wampanoags' destruction.
One could certainly argue that the value of family togetherness and communal gratitude far outweigh the value of legitimate but ancient resentments making the modern Turkey day a worthy feast celebrating American culture but that don't mean it ain't racist.
The second most popular argument is that the woman who successfully lobbied Abraham Lincoln to make Thanksgiving a holiday also wrote a book supporting the forced migration of black Americans to Liberia (which, considering that the position was predicated on the abolition of slavery was probably a more liberal position than a modern sensibility might suppose). The Mother of Thanksgiving was pro-segregation. Unquestionably racist today but hardly cause sufficient to call off a party, I'd say.
=> How is Thanksgiving racist?
There are a number of facets to the charge but I think I'm in agreement with Dr.Franklin when he suggests that any 400 year old event is likely to be found racist to a modern sensibility.
The main argument is that the original 1621 event featured Pilgrims celebrating their salvation from starvation by the generous aid and instruction of local Wampanoag tribesmen. The Pilgrims took over ready made, abandoned houses and fortifications and farmlands because European disease had killed 95% of the people who lived there two years prior. There was an understanding that the Pilgrims would respect Wampanoag territorial claims and even prevent other European colonists from expansion in the area but as the decades passed these promises lost strength, there were more European immigrants and fewer and fewer Wampanoag's mostly due to European diseases like smallpox and alcoholism. Eventually things got tense and the Pilgrims demanded that the Wampanoags hand over all their guns, which started an outbreak of violence that expanded into King Phillip's War. Most Wampanoags were killed or enslaved and all territorial claims were ignored. From a Wampanoag perspective, the First Thanksgiving was the begining of the end for their people and way of life. If you define America as the white descendants of Pilgrims, then Thanksgiving Day was a win for America. If you define America as all the people who were living in America in 1621 than the First Thanksgiving was more like prologue to apocalypse. Of the 100,000 or so residents of Southeastern Massachusetts in 1600, only about 400 descendants were around 76 years later (about 2,000 survive today).
How is thanks giving racist? I've never heard or thought of thanksgiving like that before.
wow people from 1620 were racist, big shock from 400 years ago!
It's racist? Never heard.
"Frankly I'm not certain I've met a middle aged woman who DOESN'T get all Christmas presents on Black Friday or Cyber Monday"
Now if they just get all of us to do that they only need employees (6% of US jobs) a couple of weeks per year.
bump
Frankly I'm not certain I've met a middle aged woman who DOESN'T get all Christmas presents on Black Friday or Cyber Monday
Respectfully, I disagree with that statement. I actually believe Thanksgiving is possibly one of the least racist holidays. Although, you are entitled to your opinions. Have a good Thanksgiving!
Thanksgiving is unquestionably racist but that has little bearing on whether or not to celebrate. If we gave up on every holiday with a racist past we'd have few or none to celebrate.
Happy Thanksgiving.
We should totally go out celebrating Christmas with Black Friday shopping instead! 🤣