Instigator / Con
34
1605
rating
17
debates
70.59%
won
Topic

Honor demands that Trump pay Warren 1 million dollars

Status
Finished

All stages have been completed. The voting points distribution and the result are presented below.

Arguments points
15
3
Sources points
10
2
Spelling and grammar points
5
5
Conduct points
4
1

With 5 votes and 23 points ahead, the winner is ...

Death23
Parameters
More details
Publication date
Last update date
Category
Politics
Time for argument
Three days
Voting system
Open voting
Voting period
One month
Point system
Four points
Rating mode
Rated
Characters per argument
10,000
Contender / Pro
11
1500
rating
16
debates
40.63%
won
Description
~ 279 / 5,000

Background - https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-warren-million-offer-dna/ ----- Full resolution - Honor demands that Trump pay 1 million to Warren's favorite charity upon demand by Warren ----- Rules:- Round 1: Opening cases only (no rebuttals)----- Round 2: Rebuttals only

Round 1
Con
Facts -

At a rally on July 5th, 2018, Trump stated the following: "Lets say I'm debating Pocahontas, right? I promise you I'll do this. I will take - You know those little kits they sell on television for two dollars? 'Learn Your Heritage!' Guy says 'I was born in Scotland!' Turns out he was born in Puerto Rico and that's OK. That's good. You know. Guy says 'I was born in Germany' well he wasn't born in Germany he was born someplace else. I'm gonna get one of those little kits and in the middle of the debate when she proclaims that she's of Indian heritage because her mother said she has high cheek bones. That's her only evidence - That her mother said that she has high cheek bones. We will take that little kit and say - But we have to do it gently because we're in the 'me too' generation so we have to be very gentle. And we will very gently take that kit and we will slowly toss it, hoping it doesn't hit her and injure her arm even though it only weighs probably two ounces. And we will say 'I will give you a million dollars to your favorite charity, paid for by Trump, if you take the test and it shows you're an Indian.' You know. And lets see what she does, right?"

https://goo.gl/RFf2tu (Video of the rally)

On October 15th, 2018, Warren released the results of a DNA test which indicated that she has Native American Heritage. Warren further demanded that Trump send a million dollars to NIWRC, a nonprofit working to protect Native American women from violence.

The DNA test results indicated the following: "While the vast majority of the individual’s ancestry is European, the results strongly support the existence of an unadmixed Native American ancestor in the individual’s pedigree, likely in the range of 6-10 generations ago."

https://goo.gl/DJNpJv (DNA test results)

On that same day, a reporter questioned Trump in Warner Robins, GA regarding the issue. The dialogue was as follows:

Reporter: "Senator Warren released some of her DNA results that show a strong likelihood that she does have native American roots."

Trump: "How much? 1/1000th?"

Reporter: "Do you owe her an apology?"

Trump: "No, I don't. Absolutely. Do I owe her? She owes the country an apology. What's the percentage? 1/1000th?"

Reporter: "I don't have the exact numbers."

Trump: "OK. Tell me when you have the percentage. When you have the percentage tell me what the percentage is."

Reporter: "What about the money that you told her you would ... "

Trump: "You mean if she gets the nomination, in a debate where I was gonna have her test it? I'll only do it if I can test her personally. OK? That will not be something I enjoy doing either."

https://goo.gl/CfFRdW (Video of Trump / Reporter dialogue)



Arguments -

1. The DNA test results do not show that Warren is an Indian

Trump's "challenge" was clear: "take the test and it shows you're an Indian." The DNA test results provided by Warren do not show that Warran is an Indian. Rather, the DNA test results show "the existence of an unadmixed Native American ancestor [...] likely in the range of 6-10 generations ago."

DNA test results showing a Native American ancestor 6-10 generations ago aren't sufficient to show that Warren is an Indian. For simplicity's sake, assume for the moment that each generation going back reduces the content of an individual's heritage by 50% (half from mother, half from father). An ancestor six generations ago would then mean that Warren is approximately 1.56% (1 / 2^6) Indian, and going back 10 generations would be approximately ~0.01% Indian (1 / 2^10).

Would you say that someone is a Korean because he is 1.56% Korean? Or that someone is an Arab because he is 1.56% Arab? No, you wouldn't. In common parlance, the meaning of "an Indian" means someone who is substantially more Indian than Warren's test results show.

Trump brought this up when questioned by the reporter. Trump said "What's the percentage? 1/1000th?"

2. Warren failed to comply with the terms of Trump's "challenge"

Trump's "challenge" contemplated that Trump would collect the DNA sample, choose the DNA test provider and otherwise exercise control over the testing. It matters who collects the DNA, who choose the provider and who exercises control over the testing process. It matters because there's an obvious opportunity for fraud and Trump doesn't trust Warren. The only way Trump can be satisfied that the results are legitimate is by exercising control over the testing process.

This did not happen. What did happen was that Warren apparently exercised full control over testing process and Trump was consequently unable to verify the legitimacy of the results. Trump brought this up when questioned by the reporter. Trump said "I'll only do it if I can test her personally. OK?"

Pro
Trump did not specify what percent Warren had to be.  Therefore, he owes her a million dollars.  Secondly, Trump is not a geneticist.  He probably doesn't know how to conduct a test, it would scew it and make it seem like Warren isn't Indian, when in fact she is a percentage.  A real geneticist conducted the test, and it showed Indian heritage.  Trump is keep gonna backtrack until he is satisfied with his own scewed results.  He has no real intention of giving her a million dollars.  This is just another lie among so many.  My opponent is wrong, and is biased because doesn't like Warren or her Indian heritage.
Round 2
Con
Trump did not specify what percent Warren had to be.  Therefore, he owes her a million dollars. 
This is the only argument offered by Pro in support of the resolution. The conclusion doesn't follow from the premise.

Secondly, Trump is not a geneticist.  He probably doesn't know how to conduct a test, it would scew it and make it seem like Warren isn't Indian, when in fact she is a percentage.  A real geneticist conducted the test, and it showed Indian heritage.  Trump is keep gonna backtrack until he is satisfied with his own scewed results.  He has no real intention of giving her a million dollars.  This is just another lie among so many.  My opponent is wrong, and is biased because doesn't like Warren or her Indian heritage.

These are rebuttals to arguments which formed part of my case. Per the debate rules, round 1 was for presenting a case, not for rebuttals. Rebuttals should have been presented in round 2. Nonetheless, I will respond.

Pro, while pointing out that Trump isn't a geneticist, is ignoring a more reasonable interpretation of Trump's statements - Namely that Trump contemplated that he would contract with a third party to have the tests conducted. This was what Trump originally referred to at the Trump rally - Using a test kit which would be mailed off to a lab. This does involve Trump personally handling it.

With respect to honor, it doesn't matter that a real geneticist conducted the tests. The terms of Trump's "challenge" are what matter. Trump's "challenge" required Trump to exercise control over the testing. The fact that Warren didn't permit to exercise control over the testing means that Warren failed to comply with the terms of Trump's challenge in that respect. That failure alone is an independently sufficient and honorable reason for Trump to refuse to pay. Whether or not Trump had any real intention of paying in the first place has no impact on whether or not Trump is honor bound to pay now.

I'm not wrong. I do like Warren. I don't care for her Indian heritage. I don't like Trump. I'm a godless commie.
Pro
Forfeited