Hot Dogs are not sandwiches
The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.
After 3 votes and with 7 points ahead, the winner is...
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- Number of rounds
- 3
- Time for argument
- Two days
- Max argument characters
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- One week
- Point system
- Multiple criterions
- Voting system
- Open
Hot dogs are signature American fast food dishes. We are not arguing about the hot dog with no bread.
an item of food consisting of two pieces of bread with meat, cheese, or other fillings between them, eaten as a light meal.[1]
- something that is constructed like or has the form of a sandwich.[2]
- Sandwich, UK, is a town in England. The food is named after this town.
- Roasting a pet dog(the act is discouraged whatsoever) does not make the product a sandwich
- Hot Dogs are not the same as Sandwiches, based on spelling.
- Can be eaten portably
- Have a Top and a Bottom
- Fillings inside
34 percent, said "yes" to hot dog as sandwich, significantly below the hamburger (60 percent) and sloppy joe (62 percent), both of which pulled out a majority on the sandwich side.[9]
- Subway sells sandwiches.
- Subway's core product is the submarine sandwich (or "sub") [5].
- Submarine sandwich, also known as a sub, hoagie, hero, or grinder, is a type of sandwich consisting of a length of bread or roll split lengthwise and filled with a variety of meats, cheeses, vegetables, and condiments [6].
- "Limiting the hot dog’s significance by saying it’s 'just a sandwich' category is like calling the Dalai Lama 'just a guy'."
- "hot dog formerly known as a sandwich."
- The British Nobleman, Earl of Sandwich invented the Sandwich, formally named it, and made it go famous(Before this, nothing in the structure of a sandwich is called a sandwich)
- The Earl of Sandwich intended the food to be made with two pieces of bread on the top and bottom, while the filling between.[1]
- Consequently, he would ask his servants to bring him slices of meat between two slices of bread, a habit well-known among his gambling friends.
- The Hot Dog is not even remotely close to the structure of the intended Sandwich[See R1]. It has one piece of bread with a thin slit, with no resemblance to an actual, 100% defined sandwich(Such as the BLT)You may argue that the one piece of sandwich still holds the sausage inside, but if so, go call a pizza and a Pop-tart a sandwich, as well as Chinese Dumplings, because in all 3 of them the wheat flour portion holds the filling(Such as meat) together.
- Earl of Sandwich wouldn't call a Hot Dog nor an open sandwich a sandwich. Since the definition of Sandwich revolve around him because he initially defined it(That is an understatement. He INVENTED the concept, which the concept is something(preferably meat such as ham) between 2 edible materials(such as bread)), Neither open sandwiches nor hot dogs would be, orthodoxically, a sandwich,
Feuchtwanger's wife proposed the use of a bun in 1880: Feuchtwanger sold hot dogs on the streets of St. Louis, Missouri, and provided gloves to his customers so that they could handle the sausages without burning their hands.[3]
Feuchtwanger's wife proposed the use of a bun in 1880: Feuchtwanger sold hot dogs on the streets of St. Louis, Missouri, and provided gloves to his customers so that they could handle the sausages without burning their hands.
3. USDA: A SANDWICH IS MEAT BETWEEN TWO SLICES OF BREADIf you want to know the definition of a certain dish, the officials at the U.S. Department of Agriculture are good people to ask. It’s their job to make sure that the nation’s supply of meat is correctly labeled. When it comes to sandwiches, the agency follows strict criteria. “A sandwich is a meat or poultry filling between two slices of bread, a bun, or a biscuit,” Mark Wheeler, who works in food and safety at the USDA, told NPR. His definition comes from the Food Standards and Labeling Policy Book used by the department (the USDA only covers the “labeling of meat, poultry, and egg products,” while the FDA handles everything else, which is why the USDA's definition excludes things like grilled cheese). Not included under their umbrella of foodstuff served between bread are burritos, wraps, and hot dogs.
1-7
8 - Submarine sandwich is a sandwich:
- Subway sells sandwiches.
- Subway's core product is the submarine sandwich (or "sub") [5].
- Submarine sandwich, also known as a sub, hoagie, hero, or grinder, is a type of sandwich consisting of a length of bread or roll split lengthwise and filled with a variety of meats, cheeses, vegetables, and condiments [6].
9 - It follows from item (8) that split rolls are allowed as sandwich container.
10 - A sandwich doesn't need to have (necessarily) two slices of breads. Look at this classic sandwich with 3 slices [7], it's my first result in Google images when searching for the word "sandwich".
11- Even the NHDSC (National Hot Dog and Sausage Council), with all its bias, implies that hot dogs are sandwiches [8]:
- "Limiting the hot dog’s significance by saying it’s 'just a sandwich' category is like calling the Dalai Lama 'just a guy'."
- "hot dog formerly known as a sandwich."
There is no doubt that still the Dalai Lama is a guy.
12 - "Hot dog is a sandwich" is just a neutral position [9].
13 - New York tax policy says that hot dogs are sandwiches [10].
Pro argues that an Oreo or everything that follows the rules: 1) can be eaten portably, 2) have a top and a botton, 3) fllings inside; can be considered a sandwich. It seems to me that given those conditions a Hot dog is a sandwich.
An Ice cream sandwich or even an Oreo count as a sandwich consider it has a structure in which it:
- Can be eaten portably
- Have a Top and a Bottom
- Fillings inside
Pro later says that "Hot Dogs, on the contrary, have "two" pieces of bread" almost contradicting himself.
Pro argues that hot dogs are not recognized as sandwiches but even Pro evidence suggest the contrary: "in a survey 34 percent, said "yes" to hot dog as sandwich"(they are recognized as sandwiches for more than 1/3). Also my evidence suggest the contrary.
"Another section of the book lists hot dogs and hamburgers as examples of sandwich-type products when laying out inspection policies for pre-packaged dinners."
1) Pro admitted that a Subway sandwich is structured similarly to a sandwich and therefore is a sandwich according to his stated definition:- "Sub Sandwiches are mutated sandwiches almost to the point where it is NOT a sandwich, however, because it is structured similarly, I can pass it on."- "Something that is similar to a sandwich based on the structure can also be referred to, as a sandwich."
- The name is the name.
- It is a mutated sandwich that was originated from a two-side sandwich. Only that one of the bakers felt weird and tried to replace the two loaves of bread with one single piece of bread.
- Sub sandwiches are INTENDED to be made with 2 pieces of bread, both pragmatically[1][2] and semantically[3].
A submarine sandwich, also known as a sub, hoagie, hero, or grinder, is a type of sandwich consisting of a length of bread or roll split lengthwise and filled with a variety of meats, cheeses, vegetables, and condiments.
Definition of split
(Entry 1 of 4)transitive verb1a: to divide lengthwise usually along a grain or seam or by layersb: to affect as if by cleaving or forcing apart
4) Hot dogs are sometimes eaten as sandwiches (and can easily be converted into what Pro consider as sandwich structure):https://www.j-14.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/justin-bieber-hot-dog.jpg?fit=800%2C540 (Justin Bieber eating hot dog like a sandwich)Look at the next picture:It seems that Pro would say that the left hot dog is a sandwich but the right one is not, which is a weak opinion at least.
An Ice cream sandwich or even an Oreo count as a sandwich consider it has a structure in which it:
- Can be eaten portably
- Have a Top and a Bottom
- Fillings inside
5) Pro asks:"Also, I would like my opponent to answer this for the 2nd time.If I call the waiter to give me any sandwich, and then he gives you a hot dog, is this expected?"Probably the waiter will ask "what kind of sandwich?". It won't be expected because there is a more specific name for hot dog, but I can't complain either.
) Pro agrees with the USDA:"Since the USDA is a rather orthodox organization and its concept is more organized than what the people made without the explicit admission of the organizations with the right to say what is something or not, I will be using the USDA definition."The USDA says that hot dogs are sandwich-type product, from same source Pro shared https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/501011/5-ways-define-sandwich-according-law:
"Another section of the book lists hot dogs and hamburgers as examples of sandwich-type products when laying out inspection policies for pre-packaged dinners."
Not included under their umbrella of foodstuff served between bread are burritos, wraps, and hot dogs.
- Sub sandwiches are intended to be made with 2 pieces of bread, and hot dogs aren't subs.
- Sandwiches still have only 1 piece of bread.
- Hot dogs are not officially considered a sandwich. It is considered a sandwich-like thing but not fully a sandwich.
I will conclude:
- Sub sandwiches are intended to be made with 2 pieces of bread, and hot dogs aren't subs.
- Sandwiches still have only 1 piece of bread.
- Hot dogs are not officially considered a sandwich. It is considered a sandwich-like thing but not fully a sandwich.
Something that is similar to a sandwich based on the structure can also be referred to, as a sandwich.
Hot Dog is not that British nobleman, so not a sandwich... Kidding!
I learned a lot about the history of hot dogs, so for that I am grateful. However this is a definition debate, and it's a lot easier to prove that something falls inside a definition, than it is specifically excluded by it. In practice, a third of people accept that it's a sandwich, even some tax codes ended up considering it that. So con takes the win.
A highlight from con was bringing up Subway. Pro counting with burritos was a wise move, but reviewing the photographic evidence, hot dogs look far more like the sub sandwich than they do the burrito. Of course them not originally being intended as sandwiches is noted, but much like the sub sandwich, things mutate with time and become other forms than they began.
Nice debate!
The definitions presented are both ok. 2006's definition stated that a sandwich was 2 pieces of bread, which proves his entire argument. But, Con's argument provided the definition of "sliced bread". I take sliced bread to be completely sliced. Therefore User_2006 wins arguments.
Sources: (same as fauxlaw)
Argument: Con offered an argument that went direct to dictionary definition of "sandwich," while Pro offered a wiki definition. Sorry for my partiality against wiki, but this debate is a perfect example why it should not be one's first-pass search for relevant material to source. Before reading the the arguments, I sought a dictionary definition, as well, using, per my preference, the OED, the which contained a definition similar to Merriam-Webster, as Con quoted, i.e., allowing for a "sliced bun." Points to Con
Sources: Both cited liberally, but Con's sources were more reliable than Pro's.
S&G. tie
Conduct: Tie
Best quote nomination:
"Roasting a pet dog(the act is discouraged whatsoever) does not make the product a sandwich" -User_2006
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"Sandwiches still have only 1 piece of bread. "
Sorry for making that error. What I was to convey is that "Hot Dogs still have only 1 piece of bread".
Technically, the sandwich got its name from the Earl of Sandwich, not the town itself.