God does not exist
The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.
After 1 vote and with 3 points ahead, the winner is...
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For the third and (hopefully) final time:
Too often atheists get to play the role of skeptic, poking holes in theistic arguments and making believers in God bear the burden of proof. However, in so far as the atheist not only lacks belief in God but asserts that there is no God as a matter of fact, they have a burden to prove that claim. In this debate, Pro will have the burden of proof to prove the resolution; I will not have to show that the resolution is false, only that Pro has not shown it to be true.
I will not post anything the first round, giving the opening statement to Pro. Then, they will not post anything the final round, establishing a total of four rounds each (if there is a simpler way to accomplish that goal, let me know in the comments).
(in Christianity and other monotheistic religions) the creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being.
For the director of music. Of David. A psalm.1 You have searched me, Lord,and you know me.2 You know when I sit and when I rise;you perceive my thoughts from afar.3 You discern my going out and my lying down;you are familiar with all my ways.4 Before a word is on my tongueyou, Lord, know it completely.5 You hem me in behind and before,and you lay your hand upon me.6 Such knowledge is too wonderful for me,too lofty for me to attain.7 Where can I go from your Spirit?Where can I flee from your presence?8 If I go up to the heavens, you are there;if I make my bed in the depths, you are there.9 If I rise on the wings of the dawn,if I settle on the far side of the sea,10 even there your hand will guide me,your right hand will hold me fast.11 If I say, “Surely the darkness will hide meand the light become night around me,”12 even the darkness will not be dark to you;the night will shine like the day,for darkness is as light to you.13 For you created my inmost being;you knit me together in my mother’s womb.14 I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made;your works are wonderful,I know that full well.15 My frame was not hidden from youwhen I was made in the secret place,when I was woven together in the depths of the earth.16 Your eyes saw my unformed body;all the days ordained for me were written in your bookbefore one of them came to be.17 How precious to me are your thoughts,[a] God!How vast is the sum of them!18 Were I to count them,they would outnumber the grains of sand—when I awake, I am still with you.
- Ditched the idea of God being good or all-loving (and thus making God deceiving us about its true nature absolutely fine)
- Ditched the idea of any judgement by God applying to those who fail to worship it and/or believe in it correctly (heaven, hell, karma etc)
- Ditched any concept whatsoever of morality within this god-entity.
to have being in a specified place or with respect to understood limitations or conditions
- Omnibenevolence - God is all-loving. Christians believe that this is expressed in many different ways. God sacrificed his own son for humanity, which shows how much he loves all human beings without exception.
The concept of omnibenevolence stems from two basic ideas of God: that God is perfect and that God is morally good. Therefore, God must possess perfect goodness.
>Reported Vote: seldiora // Mod action: Not Removed
>Points Awarded: 0:3; 3 points to PRO.
>Reason for Decision: See votes tab.
>Reason for Mod Action: While very underwhelming and much too vague, the vote barely hit enough of the basic requirements for the vote to be borderline. Borderline votes are ruled as sufficient.
"To award argument points, the voter must:
(1) survey the main argument and counterargument in the debate,
(2) weigh those arguments and counterarguments against each other, and
(3) explain, based on the weighing process, how they reached their decision."
This vote accomplishes the first two points well enough, but the 3rd point is missing.
I didn't just do that, I even attacked the amoral god as well saying how it can't exist outside of 'everything' it creates. He never once addressed me on that.
you didnt see the vote
>> How the fuck can you allow that RFD from seldiora?!
You may want to cool down. Votes get posted, and then IF reported get reviewed. They are by default allowed from any member in good standing.
don't vote if you didn't read the debate
hol up a sec, I'm re-reading the debate. Con's stance is a bit slick to examine in detail.
You just deleted your vote and voted for me while your RFD supports Con.
What do you mean run out of ideas? I did not forfeit the last round.
How the fuck can you allow that RFD from seldiora?!
"While Pro is ditching his religion and the God he believes in, in order to assert a God that doesn't judge people or care about morality, in order to win this debate "
I meant Con but technically both sides are doing this.
I linked merriam.webster as the source but the definition was Cambridge's I will fix this error next Round.
That isn't proof of god and I believe in god. The anseer to your question innthis debate will be
that it 0% proves god.
Comment below is intended for you. I thought Pendragon was the atheist.
If God doesn't exist, then how come the solar system is flat as opposed to being shaped like an atom?
Agnosticism imo is an invalid position. If im unsure of his existence, then i currently do not believe in his existence. If not sure if i can score a goal, than at the moment i do not know that i can score that goal. Its a yes or no question, there is no in between.
Zeus can take many physical forms, anything from animals to light. You can go to mount opympus and he can be there, and you will never know.
If absense of evidence is evidence of absence, does that mean black holes and those wierd fish near hydrothermal vents didnt exist before we found the evidence? No, they exist independent of our evidence. Absense of evidence is evidence of absense of evidence, and nothing else.
Even in fantasy lands where fairies exist, they are rarely seen by people and actively avoid them. Do we know what kind of skeletons they leave or do they simple disintegrate into pixie dust? Perhaps they were visitors from another dimention and exist elsewhere in the universe. Its all guesswork, but the point is *proving* nonexistence is impossible. You can declare something doesnt exist in a specific point of space, like between earth and venus, but that doesnt mean it doesnt exist elsewhere.
Your argument about "no evidence of fairies means ita silly to believe in them" is completely opposite of "if you cant disprove god you must believe in him." I mean i cant disprove any god exists, whether its the christian god or the hindu gods. Should i believe in all of them at once even tho only 1 god and many gods is completely contradictory? You cant disprove fairies, so you must believe in fairies! That is very silly.
I disagree that according to the myths Zeus doesn’t have a physical form, but obviously, one could amend their hypothesis and say Zeus is non-physical, sure. But that’s my point: as hypotheses become more and more as hoc, they because less and less likely to be the best explanation of the evidence (in this case, lightning, various calamities sometimes claimed to be wrought by the gods, etc). Moreover, absence of evidence IS evidence of absence of something, when we should expect that thing to leave traces if it existed. For example, the absence of evidence for a planet between Venus and the Earth is pretty good evidence that there is no such planet. Do you really think we have no reason to believe that elves and fairies don’t exist? That’s silly. If there were little flying people or immortal people with pointy ears out there on planet Earth (depending on how you define “Elf”), we would expect to find traces of them: either direct observations of them, or little fairy skeletons, etc. That we do not find these traces is pretty strong evidence that elves and fairies don’t exist.
And even if I grant that you can’t disprove that God exists, then you shouldn’t be an atheist, because claiming that God does not exist goes beyond what you have said you can prove! If there is no way to show that God does not exist, then only agnosticism about his existence could ever be justified.
In case you didnt realize, zeus is a god and not usually in physical form. He has entered places in the form of literally a stream of light. If he doesnt want to be seen by a mortal like you, he wont.
Even if we take a step away from divine beings. Can you prove that elves or fairies dont exist?
Yes! We can go to Mount Olympus, and lo and behold, there is no collection of gods waiting for us. Moreover, scientific explanations of lighting are more powerful explanations than appeal to Zeus. Those two facts undermine the “Zeus hypothesis.” Of course, one can always make a hypothesis more as hoc to explain the data, but that applies to any hypothesis or explanation, not just religious ones.
Can you prove that Zeus doesn't exist?