RESOLVED: BLM is a net harm to America
The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.
After 1 vote and with 6 points ahead, the winner is...
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- Voting system
I, PRO, believe that Black Lives Matter is a net harm to America. You, CON, believe that Black Lives Matter is either net positive or net neutral.
1. Constructive (Make a case)
2. Rebuttal (Refute my case)
3. Defense (Answer my rebuttal)
1. No Kritiks
2. No New arguments made in final round
3. No trolling
4. You must follow the Debate Structure
5. No Plagiarism
6. Must follow debate definitions.
**ANY violation of these warrants loss of debate.**
"Black Lives Matter/BLM" - The racial justice movement to eradicate white supremacy that has been operating from 2013 onwards, currently organized by the Black Lives Matter Foundation, Inc. BLM accounts for the vast bulk of the racial justice movement from 2013 onwards.
"Net HARM" - When all positive and negative impacts have been weighed, the negative outweighs the positive.
"America" - The United States.
"SYSTEMIC racism" - racism tolerated within or perpetuated by the government.
BoP: I, PRO, have the BoP to prove that BLM is a net HARM. You, CON, only have the burden to disprove my arguments.
- BLM states their goal is to:
“eradicate white supremacy and build local power to intervene in violence inflicted on Black communities by the state and vigilantes (police brutality).”
- White supremacy is not a systemic problem in the US.
“The percentage of minorities in the Federal Workforce increased by 0.4 percent to 35.3 percent in FY 2014 from 34.9 percent in FY 2013, which is notably greater than the percentage of the Civilian Labor Force that is comprised by minorities (32.5 percent).”
- Police brutality and vigilante violence are not widespread, systemic threats to black people.
"Overall, killings of blacks by whites and whites by blacks accounted for about 12 percent of the roughly 6,000 homicides last year in which police had information about the race of both victim and killer"
“About 15.8 percent of white victims were killed by blacks last year, and 8.6 percent of black victims were killed by whites.”
- PRO acknowledges there may be individually racist police, but data indicates white cops are no more likely to use excessive force than a black, Hispanic, or Asian cop.
“We also examined the race of involved officers in threat perception failure OISs to gain a greater understanding of how cross-race encounters may influence threat perception. We found that the threat perception failure rate for White officers and Black suspects was 6.8 percent. Black officers had a threat perception failure rate of 11.4 percent when the suspect was Black. The threat perception failure rate for Hispanic officers was 16.7 percent when involved in an OIS with a Black suspect.”
“We find no evidence of anti-Black or anti-Hispanic disparities across shootings, and White officers are not more likely to shoot minority civilians than non-White officers.”
- PRO contends that the per capita disparity of violent encounters with police is due to crime rates and not racism.
“Here’s what it comes down to – the more frequently officers encounter violent suspects – no matter what that racial group is – the greater the chances that members of that racial group will be shot by a police officer.”
“From 1980 to 2008, the homicide offending rate for blacks (34.4 per 100,000) was almost 8 times higher than the rate for whites (4.5 per 100,000).”
“Over the past decade, according to FBI data, 40% of cop killers have been black. Officers are killed by blacks at a rate 2.5 times higher than the rate at which blacks are killed by police.”
- BOTTOM LINE: BLM has misattributed the sources of the problems facing the black community, causing increased racial tensions and national disunity WITHOUT solving violence in the black community.
“Our research shows that of American adults who followed these three simple rules, only about 2 percent are in poverty and nearly 75 percent have joined the middle class (defined as earning around $55,000 or more per year).”
- BLM has a marxist foundation that wants to undercut Judeo-Christian values and Western ideology.
“We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.”
- Not only do these policies hurt black Americans, but PRO contends that they increase racism. Undercutting American ideals and values while taking property from whites and giving them to blacks is an excellent way of breeding new racists who associate the rise of marxist ideology with black Americans.
- Marxism is a social, political, and economic theory originated by Karl Marx, which focuses on the struggle between capitalists and the working class.
- Marx wrote that the power relationships between capitalists and workers were inherently exploitative and would inevitably create class conflict.
- He believed that this conflict would ultimately lead to a revolution in which the working class would overthrow the capitalist class and seize control of the economy.
- CON has VIOLATED the agreed upon debate structure (mentioned twice, both before and after his acceptance) by posting his rebuttal during his constructive round. Within the ruleset, this warrants loss of debate. However, PRO will forgive CON to forgo winning on technicality. PRO reminds voters that the violation of debate structure is a conduct violation regardless of the ruleset penalty.
“I do not see anywhere in Pro's entire case anything even approaching a weighing of net harm vs net benefit.”
In other words, PRO has assessed and weighed the aims of BLM and concluded that they are net harm.
“Pro seems to be trying to present the case to us that BLM aims to be detrimental to America, not just that it's a net harm by mistake.”
“BLM only happened to hone in on 'blacks' because those ethnicities (Carribean, African etc) that fall under the umbrella of 'black' happen to be the poorest in not just the US but many nations that engaged in the enslavement and oppression of black individuals many generations ago. It is due to the fact that they are the poorest and that over time a huge multiple generation-long bias has remained against them, that BLM happens to focus on the 'black' race. Their actual focus is on the poor and those that are crushed under not just Capitalism but institutional bias against a certain group climbing up the ladder of said Capitalist hierarchy.”
“I am also curious what these 'Christian values' that Pro suggests are being destroyed by BLM are. I would actually agree insofar as that the racist slave traders all served regimes that claimed to be Christian. There are some old testament verses supporting that kind of hierarchy (though in OT it suggests that Semites are superior not simply Caucasians) but is that really what Pro is advocating as positive? BLM has many black Christian members. What Christian values are they standing against? Crony Capitalism and racist elitism? Is that what Pro is saying is Christianity and is being stopped? I'd say good on BLM for stopping that?”
“Over time, the terms “Judeo-Christian” and “Abrahamic” have each become important ways of talking about the contributions of the world’s largest monotheistic religions to politics and culture in the United States.”
In other words, “Judeo-Christian values” are simply values that are contributed by Abrahamic religion in the US.
Not all Christian ideals have been implanted into American culture, and PRO does not purport to suppose that all Christian ideals are positive attributes. PRO also does not suppose that there are no BLM members that are also devout Christians. Instead, PRO simply outlined in-case positive Chrisian values that BLM has, as a whole, attacked:
- The family unit
- The Protestant Work Ethic
- Individual responsibility
Finally, PRO agrees with CON that BLM is attacking capitalism, and PRO considers this a negative. Capitalism has reduced world poverty by 86% in 36 years.
“As for the reparations, the exact proportion of reparations could even be reduced to literally zero (yes, zero) if the system in place was completely fair and just towards the poor. Rather than go ahead and assert it isn't, I will wait to see what Pro says back to any of this.”
“I would say that the third part is the means and is not necessarily what BLM is or has tried to do at all. The fact that some rioters are violent and loot black businessmen even, with the looters including many rich caucasians such as star Jake Paul”
PRO does not believe that looters will necessarily create a violent revolution, but PRO believes looters escalate tensions and cause millions in damages.
“BLM have no beef with poor people of other races”
Additionally, PRO would like to observe that the point 2 of CON’s Marxism definition is an origin of the promotion of class and collective. From this point stems the promotion of the group over the family, the reallocation of wealth from the rich and an abandonment of individual responsibility.
“BLM have beef with rich elitism entitling people to disproportionate privilege even in law enforcement towards themselves vs what the poor get. The Marxist values aren't a negative at all.”
Seventy-two percent of black babies were born to unmarried mothers, according to government statistics.
Children in father-absent homes are almost four times more likely to be poor.The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services states, “Fatherless children are at a dramatically greater risk of drug and alcohol abuse.”Children of single-parent homes are more than twice as likely to commit suicide.71% of high school dropouts are fatherless.The statistical data showed that a 1% increase in the proportion of single-parent families in a neighborhood is associated with a 3% increase in an adolescent’s level of violence.Being raised by a single mother raises the risk of teen pregnancy, marrying with less than a high school degree, and forming a marriage where both partners have less than a high school degree.
Black Lives Matter has always been more of a human rights movement rather than a civil rights movement. BLM's focus has been less about changing specific laws and more about fighting for a fundamental reordering of society wherein Black lives are free from systematic dehumanization. Still, the movement’s measurable impact on the political and legal landscape is undeniable.What gets referred to as “the Black Lives Matter movement” is, in actuality, the collective labor of a wide range of Black liberation organizations, each which their own distinct histories. These organizations include groups like the Black Youth Project 100, the Dream Defenders, Assata’s Daughters, the St. Louis Action council, Millennial Activists United, and the Organization for Black Struggle, to name just a few.Collectively, since 2013, these organizers have effected significant change locally and nationally, including the ousting of high-profile corrupt prosecutors. In Chicago, the labor of groups such as BYP100 and Assata’s Daughters, among others, led Anita Alvarez — who had inexplicably failed to charge police officers who shot at least 68 people to death — to lose her re-election bid for Cook County prosecutor. And in Florida, groups like The Dream Defenders and others helped end Angela Corey’s reign as a state attorney. Corey remains infamous for failing to convict Trayvon Martin’s killer George Zimmerman while prosecuting Marissa Alexander, a Black woman who didn’t hurt anyone when firing a warning shot at her abusive ex-husband.The BLM movement’s work certainly doesn’t stop there. Students on the ground in Missouri, as part of the #ConcernedStudent1950 movement, helped lead to the resignation of the University of Missouri president over his failure to deal with racism on campus. BLM compelled Democrats to restructure their national platform to include issues such as criminal justice reform, and the movement contributed to the election of Black leftist organizers to public office, such as activist Chokwe Lumumba to mayor of Jackson, Mississippi.The BLM movement’s unrelenting work on the issue of police corruption, helped incite the release of four unprecedented U.S. Department of Justice reports that confirm the widespread presence of police corruption in Baltimore, Chicago, Ferguson, and Cleveland. Moreover, the Movement for Black Lives’ publication of a watershed multi-agenda policy platform — authored by over 50 black-centered organizations — laid bare the expansive policy goals of the movement. The fact that these accomplishments have happened so quickly is an extraordinary achievement in and of itself.Moreover, the broader cultural impact of BLM as a movement has been immeasurably expansive. BLM will forever be remembered as the movement responsible for popularizing what has now become an indispensable tool in 21st-century organizing efforts: the phenomenon that scholars refer to as “mediated mobilization.” By using the tools of social media, BLM was the first U.S. social movement in history to successfully use the internet as a mass mobilization device. The recent successes of movements, such as #MeToo, #NeverAgain, and #TimesUp, would be inconceivable had it not been for the groundwork that #BlackLivesMatter laid.
Employers should identify and implement concrete steps to address and fix inequities, and endeavor to create diverse and inclusive workplaces by establishing programs and continually assessing and reworking them to reach their goals. Diversity initiatives come in all shapes and sizes.For example, over the last decade, many businesses adopted a version of the “Rooney Rule,” a practice started in the NFL to increase the opportunities for minorities to hold coaching and management positions by requiring that teams interview at least one non-white candidate for open positions. Businesses adopting these initiatives often require at least one female and one non-white candidate to be considered among the candidates for every open leadership position.
- When we realise they helped blacks move towards better legal representation, Pro will accuse this of 'hurting the prosecutors of America to put criminals behind bars' despite the bias being the opposite.
- When we realise they helped workers' rights, inspired movements like MeToo and helped inspire Latinos to fight ICE, we are told it doesn't matter.
- When I agree they have Marxist values, Pro says no...
- RECALL that CON has VIOLATED the debate structure. PRO reminds voters that the violation of debate structure is a conduct violation (although PRO is willing to allow an exception to the ruleset that makes debate structure violation an instant loss).
- This is PRO’s final round. Any new arguments made by CON should be disregarded by voters and RECALL that the debate ruleset warrants loss of debate if this rule is broken.
- The entirety of CON’s sources can not be found using the provided links (they are likely broken), so PRO has done their best to trace down the original source for refutations through CON’s quotations. If an original source can not be found, PRO urges voters to consider the original point by CON unsubstantiated and drop them entirely.
- “PRO CLAIMS BLM IS A CONSPIRACY THEORY”
- CON cites a long snippet of this article written by a BLM activist.
RECALL: “PRO acknowledges there may be individually racist police, but data indicates white cops are no more likely to use excessive force than a black, Hispanic, or Asian cop.”
-The US federal gov employs a disproportionately HIGH number of minority Americans
-The vast majority of blacks die from black-on-black crime, something BLM is notoriously SILENT on.
-IRONICALLY, black-on-white violence outweighs white-on-black.
-A PNAS study finds no evidence that white officers target black civilians.
“BLM movement’s unrelenting work on the issue of police corruption, helped incite the release of four unprecedented U.S. Department of Justice reports that confirm the widespread presence of police corruption in Baltimore, Chicago, Ferguson, and Cleveland.”
- “BLM IS ABOUT SAVING THE LOWER CLASS, NOT RACE”
“BLM's focus has been less about changing specific laws and more about fighting for a fundamental reordering of society wherein Black lives are free from systematic dehumanization.”
- “BLM CREATED METOO AND OTHER MOVEMENTS”
- BLM BUTTERFLY EFFECT INTERNATIONALLY
- WORKERS’ RIGHTS
The Civil Rights Act of 1964 accomplished this first domestically:
“The Civil Rights Act of 1964 is labor law legislation that outlawed discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex, or national origin.”
- AFFIRMATIVE ACTION
Simple. Exercise the 3 decisions PRO outlines in R1 and work hard.
“Pro starts talking about fatherless homes... Then blames BLM for encouraging the community to band together to take care of parentless youth. This is a most preposterous leap in logic. BLM are not encouraging homes to be fatherless and suggesting the community should forcibly 'take care of' each other.”
So no, they aren’t encouraging fatherlessness per se, but they are dismissing it as a necessity or as a smart idea at all. Furthermore, for being the #1 issue facing the black community, BLM has been oddly silent on fatherlessness.
“When I agree they have Marxist values, Pro says no…”
- White supremacy is not systemic, and neither is police brutality, thus BLM has entirely misattributed the cause of the problems facing the black community. ---> NO RESPONSE ---> PRO WINS
- BLM has caused costly riots for no real benefit. ---> Rioters are not socialist revolutionaries. ---> Never claimed they were, but they increase racial tensions and cost millions. ---> PRO WINS
- Anyone can make 3 smart decisions and be successful, thus disproving the idea some systemic entity prevents black people from succeeding. ---> NO RESPONSE ---> PRO WINS
- BLM’s Marxist influences hurts the black community. ---> BLM’s Marxism is good because it helps the unfortunate of every race, such as preventing discrimination in the workplace with affirmative action. ---> BLM has not helped discrimination in the workplace, the CRA of 1964 did. BLM is entirely black focused. Additionally, affirmative action is racist towards Asian Americans, and yet they do better than any other race. This disproves the necessity of affirmative action while proving the necessity of the 3 smart decisions. Regardless, CON presents no evidence for his claims. ---> PRO WINS
- BLM helps elect Democrats, who hurt the black community. ---> NO RESPONSE ---> PRO WINS.
- BLM ignores and worsens black fatherlessness. ---> BLM does not say fatherlessness is bad. ---> BLM openly dismisses the importance of fathers in the black community. ---> PRO WINS.
Yeah that really screwed you on sources, and I couldn't trace down some of them
NEVER EVER USE SHORTURL FUCK THAT WEBSITE!!!!
It removed my links?!!!!!! I just relaised it now when reading Ragnar's RFD more in depth.
None of us are immune to the pitfalls of virtue ethics, as much as the world would be a better place if we were.
Plus, you are correct. I really just let that infrastructure point float in the air and snatched it up again at the last second of R3. I needed to hit that home more.
Thanks for the vote! Admittedly, if I were to redo the constructive, I would not include the"Christian values" thing or the Marxism point. I would likely just really hammer my evidence about the "3 smart decisions anyone can do."
URL shorteners majorly backfired in con's R2 (all broken).
If anyone is curious, I tracked down the couple which were quoted:
That is an astute observation, I had completely forgotten about that section. And considering a reparations act would more than likely be challenged at the Supreme Court, unless the judges are delusional, that should strike it down (unfortunately, considering the way rulings have been recently, delusion is more likely than it should be).
Chris, just a note to you as I review the arguments. You mention reparations in r1. Did you know that the proposal does not pass constitutional muster?Article I, section 9: No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed. Ex post facto is retro-active law. reparations would be retro-active. Can't be done.
It is very appreciated
I will vote on it before the deadline
Any votes on this would be appreciated, despite the forfeit from RM
BLM wants reparations for African Americans. This would require much higher taxes and is bound to drag our country more into debt.
Maybe it could use more, but any more than 10k characters and it becomes an arduous slog for me. I still like to semi-enjoy my debates, even if they are on serious topics
Serious and relevent topic... I'd say given the size of it that it deserves a little more than 10k characters.
You are 100% wrong but similar to how I avoided Wylted/Singularity's more extreme debates, there are some debates where I just don't want to be involved as it's too controversial what will come up in it.
Understood. If it helps, I could increase the time for arguments
Good objection. The BLM we know was founded in 2013, so I suppose I can amend the definition to include most instances of the "racial justice" movement in the US from 2013 onward.
I might disagree, but I am too scared to take this lol.
One of the difficulties in a debate like this is the impossibility of determining where Black Lives Matter begins and ends. There might be a Foundation with a legal address and all that, but it's a movement, as you say. When should the action(s) of an individual be attributed to BLM, and to what degree? Pinning down attribution with a high degree of precision is impossible, as far as I can tell.
Of course, this difficulty may not necessarily prevent a fruitful debate from occurring. But I wouldn't be surprised if Pro and Con tussle over what the 'real' BLM is, just like people debate what 'real' Christianity or 'real' Islam is.