Instigator / Pro
15
1417
rating
158
debates
32.59%
won
Topic

seldiora (instigator of this debate) would beat Oromagi in a rap battle

Status
Finished

All stages have been completed. The voting points distribution and the result are presented below.

Arguments points
3
6
Sources points
6
6
Spelling and grammar points
3
3
Conduct points
3
3

With 3 votes and 3 points ahead, the winner is ...

oromagi
Parameters
More details
Publication date
Last update date
Category
Miscellaneous
Time for argument
Two days
Voting system
Open voting
Voting period
Two weeks
Point system
Four points
Rating mode
Rated
Characters per argument
5,000
Contender / Con
18
1929
rating
99
debates
98.99%
won
Description
~ 343 / 5,000

rap battle: having a rapping contest against someone else, where most of the lyrics are insults directed at the other rapper which have to rhyme at the same time. Winner is that with better rhythm, flow, wordplay, etc.

Assume that in this theoretical rap battle we have the same amount of line limit and time limit

Burden of proof is shared.

Added:
Criterion
Pro
Tie
Con
Points
Better arguments
3 point(s)
Better sources
2 point(s)
Better spelling and grammar
1 point(s)
Better conduct
1 point(s)
Reason:

PRO analyzes his rap clearly, he provides evidence how oromagi would most likely lose to him in a rap battle. Yet PRO fails to maintain that CON will ever accept the rap battle or CERTAINLY LOSE the rap battle. The takeaway from this is that PRO never actually proves the resolution, while CON proves his side of the BOP.

Added:
Criterion
Pro
Tie
Con
Points
Better arguments
3 point(s)
Better sources
2 point(s)
Better spelling and grammar
1 point(s)
Better conduct
1 point(s)
Reason:

Again, Seldiora is arguing as if it is basically a truism that he WILL defeat Oromagi, which is disproven.

1. No matter how good at rapping Seldiora is, he cannot predict the future. There is a chance(even if slim) that he will be banned and/or hit by a mining truck before he can post his first-round verse, no offense. Oromagi perfectly pointed out that it is NOT a truism that his opponent will defeat him because no one can predict the future.

2. Con pointed out that he might not even accept such a rap battle. There is an old saying that says "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take", and the same goes otherwise, if you don't try, you will not lose any. If Oro doesn't even bother to try to do so, then of course he will not lose.

Overall I give the arguments point to Oromagi, the absolute mad legend he is, no offense to Pro.

Added:
Criterion
Pro
Tie
Con
Points
Better arguments
3 point(s)
Better sources
2 point(s)
Better spelling and grammar
1 point(s)
Better conduct
1 point(s)
Reason:

Sources from both sides were pretty weak and this is the only reason they are tied. Con solely used Wikipedia definitions as his showmanship of sourcing but the reason I feel it would be wrong to vote Pro for sourcing is that while Pro uses his sources better (to back up actual evidence supporting his experience as a poet and rapper) it doesn't really help when your actual source is a deviantart profile and a noteflight profile. The 'rapgamenow' again was a not entirely reliable source and was only used to discuss that you improve at rapping over time. So... I leave it tied out of mutual failure to meet the standard.

Conduct was kind of towards Pro because Con baited Pro via the debate's comments into thinking that Con was going to argue he'd never accept a rap battle. In the end, Con ends up admitting he'd never accept a rap battle anyway but says the reason is:

"CON argues that non-debate competitions in the DEBATEART venue lessens the quality of debates overall and reflects talents irrelevant to our present mission of high quality debate."

So... It was very clearly a bait and switch which ended up being irrelevant as the bait and switch reversed itself when Con admits he'd not accept a rap battle but denies it's out of fear (it is out of fear and everyone on this site knows who he fears will accept it).

Now for the arguments.

In this debate only Pro discusses who would win in the rap battle, Con keeps saying that Pro fails to prove that he has concrete probability to win. Con uses Wikipedia to justify that burden of proof is initially on the one making the positive claim and that therefore Pro autoloses if he can't prove Con's incompetence at rap but this isn't how burden of proof works and Pro points this out during the following Rounds.

Con's argument that rap battles reduce the quality of debates on DART is also irrelevant because if you analyse this entire debate's title and description, it doesn't specify that it would need to be Rated on here, nor that the rap battle itself would be held on DART. What it does do is state that the users on DART are the two engaging in it.
While this seems like me inferring things that Pro didn't point out, it is Con's fault for continually trying to make this debate about whether or not rap battles are okay to host and to say he'd never accept it out of a concern for DART's quality of debates. This never held any weight whatsoever by default, since the rap battle is never said to be hosted on DART.

It is further evident that Pro understands this flaw since in his Round 1 he looks to other websites to bring in evidence of his own rapping ability. This displays comprehension that this is not in a 'bubble of DART' but about the users on DART's overall rapping ability.

On top of this, it is confusing why Oromagi keeps pretending that there's 0% proof. When he has dodged nonstop rap battles on the website despite being one of the most active debaters, we have a large sample size to infer he is insecure about his ability to win them. Just because he says he isn't and says that it's his worry about the integrity of DART debates doesn't somehow nullify that Pro has completely explained how the LACK OF EVIDENCE does INDEED support his burden of proof given how active Oromagi has otherwise been. What we can see is that the other person in the rap battle claims himself to have experience in it, meaning that if anything is the default position for burden of proof, it's the one lacking a résumé who has a lot more to prove if he is to conquer the other candidate in the eyes of the judge.

Oromagi's points all revolve around two things:
1) Burden of proof is initially on Pro.
2) Oromagi denies avoiding rap battles out of fear.

Seldiora's points all revolve around two things:
1) Burden of proof is shifted onto Con due to only Pro's candidate having displayed experience in rapping in a competitive environment.
2) Con not only has burden of proof shifted onto them, he has stacked evidence against him given his repeated avoidance of rap battles in spite of his duration of site-use and rate of activity during that duration.

I do not comprehend Con's case, especially since in Round 1 he attacks Pro for claiming that Con is going to avoid a rap battle at any cost only to later in the very same Round admit that he would but scapegoats the reason as DART quality of debates which is irrelevant as the rap battle never was stated to be a rated DART debate.