This is the Best Online Debating Platform Ever
The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.
After 1 vote and with 3 points ahead, the winner is...
- Publication date
- Last updated date
- Type
- Standard
- Number of rounds
- 3
- Time for argument
- One day
- Max argument characters
- 10,000
- Voting period
- One week
- Point system
- Multiple criterions
- Voting system
- Open
No information
Ever: At any time, in any way, always
- Real-time Structural debate. Like This site, DDO has real-time structured debates, even going further than this site, as there are tournaments in which people had to come up with an argument within 1 hour or less, basically like an online tournament except you are not seeing the other person. DArt here has the minimum argument time of 12 hours or half of a day, so unless all people are trying to build the live-debating atmosphere, you are going to sit in front of your computer for hours to come. Compared to not so many active debaters and only one single tournament ever taking place in the entirety of this site's 2-year history, DDO has massive numbers of users, which would mean more participation and more activity in debating and essentially more real-time structural debates. DArt's activity is nowhere near DDO's peak.
- Forums. Yeah, DDO's forums now is a hellscape wasteland. However, they were nevertheless much more active than what we have here now. With over 16,000 topics in just one single category! We have here only about 4,597 forum topics here, and that is the entirety of forum pages. DDO is 13 years old and it has 116,495 topics. DArt is 2 years old so divide that by 6.5, and you get 17922 topics per 2 years, which is about 4 times of DArt's productivity. This is also on top of the fact that DDO is dead for 2 years so on its peaks the topic rate is even higher back then! Compared to DDO's topic, DArt's forums can barely be considered alive. Let's also consider posts. DArt has 196,419 posts in 2 years. DDO has 3,056,498 in 13 years. On average it is 470230 posts per 2 years, which is over 2 times our productivity. How can we say that the forums on this platform are the best of all times when there is literally one 2-4 times more active per year, counting the dead ones??
- Involvement of Brilliant People. DDO has much more brilliant people out there, only that they are no more active. Out of all people, we only have 11-page worth of debaters, whereas there are over 11 pages of debaters that have the tendency and skill to actually win the debates. People like RoyLatham and Lannan13 as well as Zaroette are no longer debating on this site, and they are still very brilliant people. There are over 100,000 people on DDO and the intelligent people are simply of more value. Seriously, there are lots of good debaters on DDO and only a fraction moved here. The course to improvement is literally the same when DDO is not dead.
- Skill Development. DArt is using the same algorithm as DDO. When DDO is not dead you improve the exact same way. Isn't this a quality of literally every single debating platform that could and would exist?
- Personalities. If there is a literal religion on DDO with actual popes and followers, you know how quirky the community is. DArt so far has no such communities and only one single debating tournament. Why would you even bother raising a 2-year-old community with one that is 13-year-old? The fact there is a weekly video series about absurd and funny quotes from an enormous community would be even more flavorful than the community we have now.
- Unprecedented Charts. DDO was, and is, the most popular debating website according to counts of people, Even now you can see new users joining. DDO was unprecedented and was suddenly popular. There is nothing before it and it became such a big hitter. DArt is following DDO's footsteps, merely going the right steps and avoiding the wrong ones. The achievement of DDO made cannot be repeated.
2. He tried to rather compare one platform to the other which he believes is the best but I don't. So, in a nutshell he resorts to subjectivity throughout the argument. However, he disclosed some statistical significance to prove why DDO is the better platform and the best overall; so I will consider them along the way for my next arguments with addressing rebuttals.
Timelessness & Consistency. When you add the word former to a term like glory it negates the timelessness of that correspondence. So, DDO has lost it's touch according to even you and your later remarks confirm that they are not in the state as they used to be in a dominant fashion. But with the way DArt has been approaching, it might be even bigger than what has ever been. Also Con tried to make it look like that being dead for 2-years only added to the arsenal of DDO for being the greatest platform ever.
If anything, that just proves how inconsistent DDO has stood to be after all these years when it came to face real competition with the rise of other debating online platforms.
Competition. When Con builds his argument through a 13 years old site against a 2 years one, pointing out simple statistics doesn't help. When DDO started, even as you stated that there was nothing before this and so it worked its magic up the way- isn't it simple? Since there were no other competition for them, it was basically a raw monopoly and they gained the popularity they deserved. But DArt, relatively way more modern in terms of this era has risen to its popularity competing with the veteran sites like DDO and other platforms. The credibility lies in competition through ages, not in pioneering to a drastical end.
In terms of tournaments, I concede with this one but that can't be used as an argument against the platform; rather could be a constructional advice. In fact with this timeline, sound voting system and better texting experience (Microsoft Word Style) of DArt, I believe it has drawn more and more debaters and admirers online and explicitly outdated DDO.
Con asks "Why would you even bother raising a 2-year-old community with one that is 13-year-old?" - well I didn't and I wouldn't. My question though would be back to you- "Why would you?"
Prediction. Con states, "The achievement of DDO made cannot be repeated". Well, he doesn't necessarily know the future and from the likes of my arguments, we can predict how DArt may as well be even bigger.
Nevertheless, Pro this time touched on the term "ever", but this time, he still didn't define the parameters for "ever". Yeah, Without parameters it means of all time.
Pro needs to prove that DArt is the best platform at all times, in the past and even in the future. Of course, we don't need to prove the future because that would render Pro's statement impossible to justify. Let's just keep it both now and the past.
I have no idea why I dropped that point, but Pro never even fulfilled his BoP in the first round.
It is as if Pro didn't use subjectivity either. He did. Also, I just proved DDO is better than this one counting its overall life(not just now). The fact my opponent used "DDO is dead" as a reason is like the I the slight athletic boy is objectively a better athlete than the old Olympics Champion who'd be in a wheelchair because he is so old. Even then, the old Olympics competitor is probably objectively a better athlete within 14 years of age than me. Comparing his 90-year old body with my 14-year old body is just unfair.
However, DDO at its most glorious moment is better than whatever we'd have over here
Competing? No. DArt is more like hopping on the derailed train of DDO. DDO helps DArt more than it hurts it. Having one of the most popular debating sites literally helping its growth, then having such a small circle after 2 whole years with the peak of it being NOWHERE near DDO's, I don't see why DArt is overall better.
However, having a more modern vehicle does not make the site generally better.
Comparing a community of 2 years with a community at least 11 years old would be completely unfair and biased. However, the resolution compares the whole life of the community, and DDO's easily wins. You have literal religions and weekly web shows created just for that site. What does this site have over DDO?
For now, it is not repeated yet. However, using a community not done to compare one already done would be clear in the outcome, and the one with the BoP can't predict that DArt will surpass DDO. Who knows if the internet will be completely shut tomorrow? Pro can't possibly know that DArt will be even bigger.
Con implies that I have to prove DArt to be consistent with past and future in order to prove it to be the best of all time. Well, apparently, no. That's like saying Stipe Miocic cannot be called the best Heavyweight in the world since he didn't fight around the time of Randy Couture and so Randy Couture is the greatest Heavyweight of all time.
Con still sticks to the "former glory" and totally misses the point of my Timelessness argument. Since its dead and almost done and it ceased to compete with DArt the past two years, bringing out "past" arguments seems childish.
Everything has to evolve with time to generate the interest in introverts and people in general. That's basic marketing strategy. The argument was from my Draws argument where I pointed out why DArt has more to attract than DDO. So, yes it does better to draw debaters in with an advanced algorithm and atmosphere and less bugs unlike DDO.
So, Con agrees with his unfair comparisons but goes on to compare "life of the community" by which he means proper activity rates that still counts as a mismatched comparison for two sites built 11 years apart. As I pointed out in round two, if you're providing statistics, stop setting up cumulative datasets to analyze. Bring in relatable on-spot demographics of the growth rate while DArt was not there and plot it against what's happening after DArt came in.
So, while I opened up a possibility for DArt going to be the best at the rate they're going, Pro right away dismisses the possibility of a future that he's unaware of and provides biased judgements through irrationally statistical and narrative comparisons. I believe I refuted them all with rationale and circumstantial presence of states of two sites.
pro keeps asserting not to compare the relatively new DART to DDO, but gives little evidence to counter con's arguments about how there are as many users who could debate well on DDO as the total users as DART. The convincing nature of the forum interaction counteracts pro, and comparing the retired olympic athlete to the young boy seemed fair to show that DART was developing well but didn't have the same level of user. For pro to win, he would have to infer that the quality of debaters were equally bad around 2 years. I think both pro could've benefited from using Web Archive to show exactly what was going on two years into DDO (which admittedly looks worse than DART), but he failed to do so, and as a result con has the edge in this debate.
Wow I haven't gone on to check out yet. Thanks
Spambots got me to check that place out before, it claimed to have a hundred features it clearly lacked. Now they've hidden the absence of anything beyond a forum and bots with a requirement that you give them your information before you look at anything...
Thanks for letting me know, I'll check em out for sure.
I'm curious if you've ever looked at debateisland.com
The people there talk almost exclusively about politics and religion, but the Debra AI is pretty cool.
Appeals to novelty vs tradition. With both talking about the unknown future, this falls flat to me.
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>Reported Vote: seldiora // Mod action: Removed
>Points Awarded: 0:1; 1 points to CON.
>Reason for Decision: "unfair certainly, but pro didn't prove the community was as lively or as well as DDO's peak. He did well trying to mention the first two years of DDO vs current DART though."
>Reason for Mod Action: Did not justify awarding arguments points.
To award argument points, the voter must:
(1) survey the main argument and counterargument in the debate,
(2) weigh those arguments and counterarguments against each other, and
(3) explain, based on the weighing process, how they reached their decision.
Just spent a good minute cackling at some of the entries on the DDO wiki.
You'll probably lose this one because of that DDO point, but I really like this platform too.
That's a very interesting debate, thanks guys for bringing it up :)
I only take debates that I can actually win. If I accepted this, it means I have a way to win.
Watch.
how the heck can you even win this. DDO is inactive, Edb8 is dead, and Kialo is... kinda weird honestly. No voting makes the issues vague.