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Topic

There is no general financial freedom.

Status
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Category
Economics
Time for argument
One week
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Disclaimer : Regardless of the setup for voting win or lose, The aim of this interaction, Is for those that view it, Learn and or take away anything that will amount to any constructive value ultimately. So that counts as anything that'll cause one to reconsider an idea, Understand a subject better, Help build a greater wealth of knowledge getting closer to truth. When either of us has accomplished that with any individual here, That's who the victor of the debate becomes.

******The first round will be an expanded version of the debate description. Much information has to be explained more in detail than what the description field will allow.******

This notion of economic freedom/financial freedom is phony.
A previous debate I was in gave me an idea for this topic. I think the person was attempting to demonstrate their "slave free" life while being incognizant of their bondage to monetary currency.

Yes we are in a currency prison system folks. It is made up of what you can call monetary supremacy. It is the supreme ruler of the world and we are subjected to it.

To be continued................

For questions and clarity, please comment, send a message.

Round 1
Pro

This notion of economic freedom/financial freedom is phony.
A previous debate I was in gave me an idea for this topic. I think the person was attempting to demonstrate their "slave free" life while being incognizant of their bondage to monetary currency.

Yes we are in a currency prison system folks. It is made up of what you can call monetary supremacy. It is the supreme ruler of the world and we are subjected to it.

Just sit back and observe. Everything we do , no matter what it is, is by in some way , form or fashion connected to currency.

Being in bondage means you're obligated to what you're bonded to. We're obligated to do what? What is necessary to meet the condition of whatever it is we seek to do.

True financial freedom is to be free from finance. If I was financially free, it would mean  I no longer have to meet a standard or condition other than what is necessary.

An old friend and I discussed some time ago about this. This was a person that can also see and observe truth . One person that if to be multiplied into a host of individuals on this site, it would shift the popular opinion and voting pool. On to the point and that is we can see that at one time, all there was , was just resources. That's all we've ever needed to obtain the essentials to self sustenance and life balance.

So as time progresses, we think we're solving problems by inventing systems. But the cycle of issues continue and which the result comes that we have today in the big world of commerce. Yes that big financial issue known as debt. They say we have no real money in this country , the U.S. of A.

We're obligated through many means to include the punching in and out of the workplace. The workforce that dictates your schedule, your work life balance in order to keep you submitting to your obligation, that is to what you owe.

It's what you will always owe as long as this system is in place. Unless you're one of those bravehearts. Some have come up with a solution for themselves to break the chains of rent, taxes and so forth by heading towards nature, the forest or a place possibly conducive for cabin shelter.

Now you can try to witness how abrasive it will be to try and maintain your life outside the system that has been maintaining you.

The survival rate for doing so could be dictated by wild life, natural disaster , etc.

Then even with that , just think, in some way, the system was used to provide for you in perhaps transporting to , maintaining in, securing the stabliity of yourself in a nature like environment. Let's think of tools, supplies, industrial products and so forth that will have to be used , prepared , obtained on the journey to true financial freedom. It may be free for you but no purge of the system. The system stills maintains the wild park authority rangers that mostly will be your safety net. I understand much land thought to be not owned can be private areas unbeknownst to you. There's that factor of trespass of a territory. You must have a plan, knowing what you're in for going to a moneyless lifestyle.

Aside from that least likely route of existence for anyone, the dollar is supreme in your life.
That financial condition has to be met in some kind of way just to save your life.

I understand when people say they're financially free, they have a prolific source of monetary funds. You're still beholden to meet your bills. You have greater room and choices of purchases and so you say you have freedom. You have a greater scale to decide the exchange of goods and services that makes it more likely to fit your wants. Enough room to get your needs presumably so now to take care of your wants.

Unlike the person that has a small income, they have less room , less freedom to buy what they desire. So this has them more obligated, more restrained in what they can do. Sometimes the restraint is so tight, some needs will be cut or sacrificed.

But both parties are in the prison system. Some prisoners have more space, a bigger cell, with privilege or much more privilege than others.

Understand you're imprisoned to what you do to get what it is to get. So a condition to meet via some sort of labor to get a wage that meets another condition to get what it is to get. An all around enslavement cycle.

As said, both parties in the prison system are obligated under that system that maintains and provides for them. Although one party has more privilege or more freedom within, they're still within. One side has a larger capacity of things to freely choose of while all of it dictated inside the prison. That dictation is still that obligation or subjection to meeting monetary condition.

This speaks to another debate topic that was in reference to the business owner. There are many business owners in prison. They run all kinds of businesses dealing with contraband and legal services dealing with virtually knick knack items such as ramen noodles, postage stamps, etc. to hire a staff of inmates for cleaning , "housekeeping"/laundry type services.

So the business owners are beholden to the system and market as the business owner on the outside is .

True freedom or economic freedom is free from any obligation of the economic system. Just being free to have a wider variety of purchasing power under obligation while still being obligated in the things you do to participate and live in the system is imprisonment.

Now this topic is by far the greatest arena that has to take much observation. If you think or argue that there is no imprisonment other than the penal system, there's nothing beyond freedom than it in the world of economic commerce, you're not attentive or observant to the world around you.


Con
To begin, I'd first like to thank Pro for creating this debate and I am looking forward to a fruitful discussion. 

I will be arguing that there is a such thing as financial freedom and that it is possible to be financially free. Firstly, the definition of Financial Freedom as per the Economic Times of India is "To have money in the bank to allocate as one desires, and to make all the decisions associated with that earning is a financial freedom to savour."(https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/wealth/plan/what-is-financial-freedom-it-means-different-things-for-different-people/articleshow/79095130.cms)

Financial freedom as defined above is clearly achievable and many people do feel as if they are financially free. In fact in 2019 CNBC found that 29% of Americans reported to be financially healthy. (https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/15/29-percent-of-americans-are-financially-healthy.html) Although it is indeed a small percentage of the American population, it does show that it is not impossible to be financially free.

Furthermore, Pro has argued that we are somehow bound to currency and that it is impossible to achieve financial freedom even with prolific amounts of money. However what they fail to realize is that although we are indeed bound to currency that does not mean that we cannot achieve financial freedom.

To provide an example, we are humans who have the freedom to express religious thought. However we are bound within the constraints of the law within which we can express our religious beliefs. For example, one cannot express their so-called religious freedom by committing an act of terror. So, in conclusion, although we have the freedom to express our religious ideas we cannot go beyond the limits of the law.

So, to put this in the context of this topic, we can achieve financial freedom but also at the same time be bound to paying off loans, taxes, essential goods, etc.

Pro's entire argument as to why there is no such thing as financial freedom rests upon the false premise that if we are bound to something we cannot, at the same time, be free. However, as I have explained above that is just not true.

In conclusion, financial freedom is possible through limited spending and smart saving. Thus if financial freedom can be achieved then it must exist as an existing entity.
Round 2
Pro
"Financial freedom as defined above is clearly achievable and many people do feel as if they are financially free."

I feel I'm free but yet am still a slave. What I feel is not necessarily reality.

"However what they fail to realize is that although we are indeed bound to currency that does not mean that we cannot achieve financial freedom."

Financially free to do what? Is it anything?

Go over my prison and business owner illustration again. It's not freedom, its a vast amount of more privileges one can have. But one is still bound in some way. 

Is a free person bound in some form or fashion ?

As stated in an outlier situation, one that is financially free, free from finances,free from actions served to collect or earn funds to maintain finances is not bonded to any of that.

Otherwise the measure of freedom is just too arbitrary. I'm more free than you in this prison because I have more freedom to do what it is I do. We're both still prisoners. This is where you have to do cognitive thinking about reality and things being said.

"To provide an example, we are humans who have the freedom to express religious thought. However we are bound within the constraints of the law within which we can express our religious beliefs."

By this illustration, are we free or in bondage?

"For example, one cannot express their so-called religious freedom by committing an act of terror.So, in conclusion, although we have the freedom to express our religious ideas we cannot go beyond the limits of the law."

Bonded to the law, exactly right.

"So, to put this in the context of this topic, we can achieve financial freedom but also at the same time be bound to paying off loans, taxes, essential goods, etc."

Whether you realize it or not, this speaks to the illustration of the "big bosses" as prisoners of the penal prison system.
Buy the way I want you to think about some words you used , "paying off". It's like saying you're finally free, no more debt, no more obligation. As long as you live on this planet, you'll be in somebody's debt obligation. Why? You're still integrated into a currency system. In order to buy, you have to trade services. You're obligated to participate somehow in this so called monopoly.

Back to the point of the prison illustration, you're not more and more free getting closer to the level of an outsider or non-inmate. Paying things off as you say doesn't cancel paying bills. It just frees up a reserve of funds that was going towards one bill but now goes towards another. You are never free from this obligation, financial obligation generally as the debate title puts it. 

The more privileged prisoners have the luxury and capital to possibly afford more privileges. But also be bound to obligations within that prison.

Same way with business owners bound to the market. 

You're saying free and bonded at the same time. I'm saying we're nothing but bonded with some having more room to move around with a looser bond .


"Pro's entire argument as to why there is no such thing as financial freedom rests upon the false premise that if we are bound to something we cannot, at the same time, be free. However, as I have explained above that is just not true."

How can someone be a slave and free at once?

By this logic the slaves on the plantation prior to 1865 were free . Those that received more leniency to do as they wished within some parameters were free to do so but still bound by the parameters. So we're they slaves or not?

See the measuring stick for this is questionable. Going back to an earlier point, how much financial freedom do I have compared to you?

If someone has more of it than me, I guess I'm less free. What is freedom? Does it just come in increments or is it something that's the opposite of bondage?

We're all at different levels like a prison system. Each one of us has a different level because we're not exactly free from the system , free from finances. This is why the phrase "economically free" , "financially free" is questionable.

"In conclusion, financial freedom is possible through limited spending and smart saving. Thus if financial freedom can be achieved then it must exist as an existing entity."

It doesn't exist in general like the title says. This means it can be achieved in an outlier situation where you are free of finance period, just directly utilizing resources without implementing monetary value and monetary conditions or obligations.

Limited spending isn't financial freedom or a way to it. It would be the opposite way as it is a restraint on what you can buy that makes a restraint on what you could be free to do.
Con
To start off my argument for this round I'd like to cite the definition of freedom from the Merriam Webster Dictionary as "the absence of necessity, coercion, or constraint in choice or action." According to this definition of freedom I believe that it is possible to be free financially. 

Whether you realize it or not, this speaks to the illustration of the "big bosses" as prisoners of the penal prison system.
Buy the way I want you to think about some words you used , "paying off". It's like saying you're finally free, no more debt, no more obligation. As long as you live on this planet, you'll be in somebody's debt obligation. Why? You're still integrated into a currency system. In order to buy, you have to trade services. You're obligated to participate somehow in this so called monopoly.
To be able to participate in the global economic market one has to recognize that they will have to share ties to currency or be bound to certain transactions just like in the other scenario where one who is expressing their religious freedom is able to express their freedom within the law. Furthermore, I believe it is possible to be financially free as you choose what you spend your money on and how you spend your money. And although you still have to pay taxes and pay off debts there is a certain point where you have enough money to not worry about those things and spend money on luxuries and non-essential items. These purchases and transactions give us financial freedom.

Paying things off as you say doesn't cancel paying bills. It just frees up a reserve of funds that was going towards one bill but now goes towards another.
Yes I agree you are obligated to use your money to pay off certain bills and transactions. However, if you have reserve funds that are used for luxurious purchases then you have all the freedom in the world to do whatever you want with the money in those funds. No one is forcing you or making you buy certain things. Rather it's up to your decision outside of the scope of taxes.

We're all at different levels like a prison system. Each one of us has a different level because we're not exactly free from the system , free from finances. This is why the phrase "economically free" , "financially free" is questionable.
This is not true because it is possible to be financially free as I have explained above. Further there are people who live outside of the prison who are not trapped in debt and payments. These people have reached a phase in their lives where they have enough money to spend however they'd like on whatever' they'd like.
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