Is YEC the most reasonable position for a Christian to hold?
Waiting for the contender's third argument.
The round will be automatically forfeited in:
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- Religion
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- Open voting
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- Point system
- Four points
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- Rated
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Definitions:
-- Christian: one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ
[https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Christian]
-- Creationism: the belief that the world was made by God exactly as described in the Bible
[https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/creationism] (literally)
-- Young earth creationism: The idea that the days in genesis 1-2 are 24 hours long
-- PRO will post extra definition in the comment section
Rules:
1. Theology must be backed up with scriptural evidence.
2. Both Pro and Con can make claims about the bible and what it is, but must be ready to defend those views.
3. No new arguments in the last round.
The burden of proof is shared:
-- Pro: YEC is the correct position for a Christian to take.
-- Con: YEC is not the correct position for a Christian to take.
Good luck.
- Reasonable: being in accordance with reason [1]
- Fact: A thing that is known or proved to be true. [2]
- Reason: (noun) a sufficient ground of explanation or of logical defence [3]
- Rational: having reason or understanding [4]
- Faith: something that is believed especially with strong conviction [5]
In fact when it comes to proving or disproving the resurrection a lawyer is better suited for the task than a philosopher or even a theologian.Wallace studied the evidence and concluded — contrary to his predisposition — that Jesus Christ did indeed rise from the dead and was seen by His disciples.
- Ex nihilo: from nothing
- A priori: from something.
- Stars are still being created [...]
- The evolutionary history is supported by all relevant data available [biologos]
- All creationistic attacks on evolution have been defeated [...]
- All geological evidence points against YEC [...]
- Measurements on rocks
- Geological phenomena such as ice layers, mountains growing, ocean floors growing, volcanoes creating islands -- etc
- Jesus is literally a photon
- Christians must literally be born again [John 3]
- God has multiple sons [Job 1]
The author is selective in the events he records. There is no attempt at thoroughness or to give all the events in a strict chronological order. The purpose of the author is to present a brief outline of the history of divine revelation up to the beginning of the national life of Israel. The creation account, for example, is not a complete account of all things that occurred in the beginning. The events recorded fit the author's purpose.
Gospel and MiraclesGood enough to agree with. Not sure of the relevance to our discussion, though.
- The plant life of the entire earth would be destroyed by the flood. But there is plantlife today. This disproves a PHYSICAL flood.
- If Genesis 1-2 is a historical narrative, Adam should have died on the same day that he ate the fruit. But he didn't.
- If light travels instantly, and we can see stars being created today, is God still creating our universe?
- Why would God put so much evidence that disproves YEC into the creation if YEC is true?
- As a Christian, does CON accept [my] three propositions and that God is wiser and more knowledgeable than human beings? (see God, our Authority) No answer. Yes, or no, CON? If yes, then can God preserve His revelation to humanity?
- Which [cosmological ideology] is correct? What is the agency? [for the Universe] CON admits God is the agency, but is he convinced of the BB and its accuracy? [1] And why does CON doubt Scripture as his highest authority? CON admits God, then mistrusts God's revelation over that of scientism.
- If Scripture teaches God created the Universe not that long ago, should we disbelieve Him? CON says we can't trust Paul as referring to all Scripture as the Word of God (Paul often refers to the OT prophets in His writings). What would Paul be referring to as God's Word in 1 Thessalonians (AD 51-52) [2] since the NT canon was not yet collated when he wrote this epistle?
- CON, was Adam the first historical man or not? Let me remind CON again, Jesus places him at the creation. Mark 10:6 But from the beginning of creation, God created them male and female. What do those underlined words mean CON? When did God create Adam, per this verse? (Logic: Adam = from the beginning of creation)
- If Genesis 1-11 is not literal....are Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob historical persons? No answer.
- Is CON willing to compromise the whole of Scripture? CON picks and chooses what parts of Scripture he will accept as true and discards the rest as unreliable. CON speaks for me yet again, saying I reject two or three witnesses. False.
If Scripture teaches God created the Universe not that long ago, should we disbelieve Him?
In the Garden of Eden story, the name “Adam” is originally not really a name at all. The Hebrew noun adam means “human,” and throughout the Eden narrative it carries the definite article—“the human” [bibleodyssey.org]
How did people know anything before the scientific Age of Reason
If all Scripture is inspired by God, how can CON say some is wrong?
Except among Biblical inerrantists, it is generally agreed that the Bible describes an immovable earth. At the 1984 National Bible-Science Conference in Cleveland, geocentrist James N. Hanson told me there are hundreds of scriptures that suggest the earth is immovable.The Bible is, from Genesis to Revelation, a flat-earth book. In describing the temptation of Jesus by Satan, Matthew 4:8 says, “Once again, the devil took him to a very high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world [cosmos] in their glory.” Obviously, this would be possible only if the earth were flat.Samuel Birley Rowbotham, founder of the modern flat-earth movement, cited 76 scriptures.The Hebrews (and supposedly Yahweh Himself) considered the vault of heaven a solid, physical object.
- it is written, This people honors Me with their lips, But their heart is far away from Me. [Mark 7:8]
- it is written in the Law of the Lord: “Every firstborn male that opens the womb shall be called holy to the Lord [Luke 2:3]
- It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone. [Luke 4:4]
The author is selective in the events he records. There is no attempt at thoroughness or to give all the events in a strict chronological order.
- The words used in Genesis are to be taken literally
- There are some exceptions, such as the word "death"
- The Bible is not evidently inerrant, and definitely not consistent
- God has no motivation for teaching us science
- There are multiple schools of theology
- Genesis is too vague to be taken literally
- Science disproves YEC
- YEC makes no logical sense in its own right
- YEC is incompatible with a round earth cosmology -- which most Christians share
It's your dime. (^8
I had to present a solid logical and scientific argument this round. I will turn to theology the next round.
But I favour the YEC position.
I think it is very reasonable to believe. I have not made up my mind completely on the issue.
Do you believe that Young earth creationism is true to the world objectively or if it is just true to the bible itself?
As agreed upon in the Description, CON is allowing me to post additional definitions that I think will be needed for my argument that was not included in the Description. Here they are:
Definitions:
Scientism
1: methods and attitudes typical of or attributed to the natural scientist
2: an exaggerated trust in the efficacy of the methods of natural science applied to all areas of investigation (as in philosophy, the social sciences, and the humanities)
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/scientism
Exegesis - "a critical explanation or interpretation of a text, especially a religious text. Traditionally the term was used primarily for work with the Bible. In modern usage, biblical exegesis is used to distinguish it from other critical text explanation."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exegesis
Eisegesis - "the process of interpreting text in such a way as to introduce one's own presuppositions, agendas or biases. It is commonly referred to as reading into the text.[1] It is often done to "prove" a pre-held point of concern, and to provide confirmation bias corresponding with the pre-held interpretation and any agendas supported by it."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eisegesis
The Laws of Logic - (1) the law of noncontradiction, (2) the law of excluded middle, and (3) the principle of identity.
https://arcapologetics.org/three-laws-logic/
Self-evident truths - "containing its own evidence or proof without need of further demonstration; Requiring no proof or explanation."
https://www.thefreedictionary.com/self-evident
***
"clear or obvious without needing any proof or explanation"
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/self-evident
Necessary being - "a Being of which it is impossible that it should not exist."
https://philosophy.lander.edu/intro/necessity.shtml
Efficient Cause - "the immediate agent in the production of an effect." https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/efficient%20cause or "that which produces an effect by a causal process."
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/efficient-cause
Thank you, CON for agreeing to this!