Instigator / Pro
0
1488
rating
1
debates
0.0%
won
Topic

Topic to be selected by CON

Status
Finished

All stages have been completed. The voting points distribution and the result are presented below.

Arguments points
0
9
Sources points
0
6
Spelling and grammar points
0
3
Conduct points
0
3

With 3 votes and 21 points ahead, the winner is ...

RationalMadman
Parameters
More details
Publication date
Last update date
Category
Miscellaneous
Time for argument
One week
Voting system
Open voting
Voting period
Two weeks
Point system
Four points
Rating mode
Rated
Characters per argument
10,000
Contender / Con
21
1615
rating
365
debates
65.21%
won
Description
~ 181 / 5,000

CON may choose topic, topic is to be said in first round.

LAYOUT:

1st Round
PRO: Concede
CON: Say Topic

Rest of the rounds will be CON's choice of layout.

ANY TOPIC IS ALLOWED

Round 1
Pro
Round waived per debate rules.

GL RationalMadman!
Con
I am basing the fairness of the resolutions as the series I'm aiming at are Netflix originals available in all countries it can access (to my knowledge) and most people can access Netflix.

I have designed them both to be Con-sided, of course, however I don't find either unreasonable. I will let 'Pro' pick which of the two but he can't pick to be Con on them.

I would argue that option 2 runs much more against the norm/popular opinion for Con's side so if Pro wants a 'fairer' fight, pick that.

Warning: in order to debate these spoilers will occur for both the audience and you as a debater, this is why I offered 2 different ones so you can pick what you want to rush through if you haven't already watched it. They're both fast-watches relative to most series and very addictive/bingeable

Option 1: The character Nonnu in the Thai series Girl From Nowhere is closer to heroism than villainy overall (neither solely focusing on means or agenda is valid, both must be explored, agreed by Con and Pro).

Option 2: The character Jang Deok-su from the series Squid Game is less justified and rational in his ruthlessness and 'evil' acts during the series than Cho Sang-woo (both sides agree that both were ruthless throughout the series)
Round 2
Pro
Forfeited
Con
Based on the comments section, Pro is inclined to pick option 2 so let's stick to that.

I am not gonna put too much effort in as I want to save this topic for another debate if this one doesn't properly set off and don't want to tip off too much to my future opponent.

Deuk-su's aggressive moves all consistently revolved around maintaining an aura of intimidation combined with genuine proof that he can and will brutally make those outside of his support-group lose, even by killing them. This is entirely optimal to do since that is actually allowed.

He is proven many times to have a shocking amount of nuance to his brute-appearing way of life. For instance, he had no real reason to offer Sae-Byeok to join his gang when the 'returners' who came back after cancelling the games reformed. He had a feeling of kinship to the girl he'd trained to pickpocket and con people and deep down he had charisma, at least I saw it. If it were just the brutal side of him that existed, he'd never really have survived for long. He knew people just as good as he knew 'fighting'. That's also why when Gi-hun warns him many episodes later on the night following the tug-of-war that Deuk-su shouldn't really attack them in the middle of the night as his own gang has every reason to stab him (Deuk-su) in the back during the ambush, Deuk-su actually sees the logic in itand instantly drops the tough-guy act respecting Gi-hun's wisdom and warning.

Sang-woo, in contrast, begins brutally backstabbing people for no real gain at many points in the series. He stabs Gi-hun in the back because he really thought that they'd snitch on him if he revealed he knew the challenge ahead and was hoping the old man would end up with the umbrella and lose. On top of this, Sang-woo could easily, definitely have defeated Gi-hun in the final squid game, if you watch it slowly and analyse the moves, Sang-woo intentionally lost the fight and actually pushed the glass expert in the glass game so that Gi-hun could survive. There were a few seconds left and one tile left undiscovered, if Sang-woo (who was just behind the glass expert) waited for him to panic and pick, Sae-Byeok and Gi-hun would both have died very easily, Sang-woo could even trip them up as clearly combat hadn't been ruled out. The glass expert wasn't that strong-looking and was well into middle age bodily aging. Sang-woo had a lot of reason to want the final 2 to just be him and the glass expert. He chose not to because of some strange irrational urge linked to his suicidal tendencies all the way back in the bath tub.

One may wonder why an otherwise brilliant tactician kept using aggression irrationally and the answer lies entirely in psychiatry I believe. Furthermore, had the old man not been on their team for tug of war, Sang Woo's team very likely would have lost.
Round 3
Pro
Forfeited
Con
next
Round 4
Pro
Forfeited
Con
smooth