Instigator / Pro
Incel-chud's avatar
4
Incel-chud
1456
rating
6
debates
16.67%
won
Topic
#3315

Men should sit down to pee

Status
Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics
Better arguments
0
3
Better sources
2
2
Better legibility
1
1
Better conduct
1
1

After 1 vote and with 3 points ahead, the winner is...

Novice
Tags
Health
Parameters
Publication date
Last updated date
Type
Standard
Number of rounds
3
Time for argument
One day
Max argument characters
3,000
Voting period
Two weeks
Point system
Multiple criterions
Voting system
Open
Contender / Con
Novice's avatar
7
Novice
1597
rating
22
debates
65.91%
won
Description

Read everything below before accepting or it is an automatic forfeit, for you

The resolution means I am arguing that men should sit down to pee in the bathroom. Don't be a smart ass. I don't mean everytime they enter a restroom. I just mean when they go into the restroom to urinate. I also don't mean when men are camping or otherwise in a situation where it is okay to pee outside. Clearly in a parking lot while drunk and tailgating, it is okay to urinate standing up. It is also okay to urinate standing up to put out fires. So the main rule here is to stay on topic, and debate in the spirit of what is trying to be argued here.

rules

1. everything I said above

Round 1
Incel-chud's avatar
Incel-chud
Pro
#1
My case is quite simple. everyone benefits more from men sitting down to pee.

Leaving the seat up

One of the biggest complaints women have who live in a house with males, is that they leave the seat up after they finish peeing. By sitting down to pee, you never have to make this mistake again. The seat will automatically be in the down position, so the women in your household will have less risk of falling into the toilet.

We also create a better world for transexuals to live in. By normalizing men sitting down to pee, nosy people entering the bathroom are less likely to make trannies feel awkward having to worry if they left the seat up or down, and being judged or discovered because of a bad habit, that should have been erased before they even transitioned.

Health Reasons

Peeing to sit down causes men to loosen several muscles in their body which benefit the pissing process.

Research has shown that sitting down to pee, allows a stronger flow of urine, and reduces your chances of cysts, infections and other health conditions. This allows a fuller release and more empty bladder. Men with prostate problems are recommended to sit down to pee, for the related health benefits created by a more urodynamic peeing profile. Before you dismiss this by thinking your prostate health is fine, you should know that thousands of people die from prostate cancer undiagnosed and that many more suffer other prostate problems that go undetected as well.

Sanitary Issues

Physicists have determined that when men pee standing up, their urine has more velocity and creates an invisible cloud of piss that contaminates the entire bathroom, even tooth brushes you may have laying on your sink. Scientists who have wasted their life studying splashback, have determined the following through repeated tests.

"It turns out you are five times as far away when you stand up - and that's a pretty significant difference in impact velocity for those droplets of urine," said Mr Hurd.
Impact with the toilet water is captured in a video by the team.
"You can see the droplets create a large cavity in the water, which then collapses, causing even greater splashback. The amount of splash is considerable," Mr Hurd explained.
"It seems that sitting down is the best sure-fire way to avoid unwanted splashing in a traditional toilet."
Let's be honest though. Even without the splashback, we have all had morning wood and struggled to get the urine into the bowl. I've been drunk and pissed and have fucked up as well. Just sit to pee.

Conclusion

 It is transphobic to stand and pee. It is healthier to stand. It is more sanitary to stand and pee. It is also more respectful to the women you live with to stand and pee. Think of a world where we all sit to pee. No more stepping in puddles when entering public restrooms, less prostate health problems and a society more welcoming to men who cut their penises off and refer to themselves as women. Thank you and vote pro
Novice's avatar
Novice
Con
#2

Caveats:
We also create a better world for transexuals to live in. By normalizing men sitting down to pee, nosy people entering the bathroom are less likely to make trannies feel awkward having to worry if they left the seat up or down, and being judged or discovered because of a bad habit, that should have been erased before they even transitioned
This argument is peculiar. Does pro genuinely believe that people follow others into the bathroom the moment they come out, in some form of stalking action? Is this argument a genuine appeal, illustrating that people "discover" transgender individuals by coming after them after they come out of the restroom, and taking note of the position of the toilet seat? Really?

By normalizing men sitting down to pee
Pro makes an implication that men sitting down to pee is NOT normalized. But this is not the case. A 2007 survey showed that 42% of married men alone sit down in the bathroom. The fact of the matter is some men sit down, some stand up, and some do both at different given times. If we are going to debate the idea of whether all men should sit down, we should avoid blanket statements that are not clearly wrong, and have no true meaning. 

 
Health Reasons: 
Pro shows evidence that sitting down may be better for the health of men with prostate problems. This may be the case, but prostate issues are developed around 60 years of age in some men. 

Now apart from people with specific medical proclivities or conditions, the health aspect is really irrelevant, as standing vs sitting has no impact on your health, according to a medical study.
Researchers...analyzed eleven studies comparing the effects of sitting versus standing on three key "urodynamic parameters": maximum flow rate, voiding time (the time that it takes to pee), and post-void residual volume (the amount of urine remaining in the bladder).
In healthy men, the team found no differences across any of the variables. Sitting was no better than standing for urinary health
To argue that all men should sit down because some elderly men with prostate disorders are medically advised to is the logical fallacy of composition; assuming that what is true of a member of a group is true for the group as a whole.

Sanitation: Yes, there may be a potential for more particles to land on the toilet when people aren't being careful but no one is eating dinner on the toilet seat. A bathroom is a messy place. Particles escape when we wash our hands, brush our teeth, even brush our hair. 

Conclusion: Some men are more comfortable peeing standing, and some are more comfortable standing. To call standing while peeing "transphobic" is ridiculous, and medical reasons to sit down and pee only apply to a select group of people. So no, all men "should" not sit down and pee, rather they should urinate in the manner that is most comfortable to them, and it really should not be anyone's business. 

Please vote con!
Round 2
Incel-chud's avatar
Incel-chud
Pro
#3
Intro

Con's arguments either merely mitigate my points or ignore them. Based on the fact this is a shared burdens debate and he has offered no positive arguments as to why men should stand to pee, even if the debate ends now with me forfeiting the rest of the rounds, I should win.

Traps

"This argument is peculiar. Does pro genuinely believe that people follow others into the bathroom the moment they come out, in some form of stalking action?"

I wouldn't call it stalking. Sometimes there are lines outside of restrooms and you have to take a piss when the other person gets done. Yes if woman uses the bathroom after a MTF tranny gets out, and the toilet seat is left up, the woman will realize the "trap's" true identity. However if we normalized all men sitting down to piss, perhaps the habit would have been ingrained in the trap at an early age, and they will not make mistakes that can lead to awkward situations, that are nobody's business.

Health

My opponent argues that doctors say there is no health benefit for healthy men to sit and pee. However he only looked at the article about prostate health. I linked another article that showed, sitting down to pee, can reduce the chances of cysts and infection.

I also argued that, many prostate conditions go undiagnosed and that it is better safe than sorry. Con drops my argument that many people with poor prostate health go undiagnosed. Plus, you may develop prostate problems at a later date, and being in the habit to pee sitting down now, will save you a lot of trouble down the road.

Sanitary

"Yes, there may be a potential for more particles to land on the toilet when people aren't being careful but no one is eating dinner on the toilet seat. A bathroom is a messy place. Particles escape when we wash our hands, brush our teeth, even brush our hair."

By this same logic, we might as well shit on the floor. This is nasty, particularly when we are living in the midst of a pandemic and every extra bit of sanitation is going to be helpful at spreading disease. Nasty bathrooms can lead to an increase in hepatitis, ecoli and honestly a whole lot of nastiness. I brought up evidence that showed peeing to stand up can result in an invisible cloud of piss, An invisible cloud where tiny piss particles can get on a toothbrush, your clothes, invisible piss particles on your face.

It's nasty.

Conclusion

Con has not offered any argumentation, to support his position. Con has not proven anything I said wrong and has in fact helped me by merely explaining how the benefits are mitigated, but not eliminated. His mitigations offer genius reasoning such as;

It's okay for piss to get all over everything in the bathroom.

Nobody would ever be curious about whether a tranny pees with the toilet seat up, despite the constant questions trannies face about whether they are post op or not.

Maybe you don't have prostate problems, you should definitely risk exacerbating them, though if they went undetected.

Please see through this nonsense and vote pro.

Novice's avatar
Novice
Con
#4
Thanks Chud. 

First I caution PRO's use of the word tranny. It is very inappropriate to use a derogatory slur against trans people. 

PRO's argument on trans is ridiculous and should not be given consideration. First, this is a completely made up situation. PRO must provide any form of evidence that this fiction is an actual problem for us to consider, which PRO has not. 

Health
I also argued that, many prostate conditions go undiagnosed and that it is better safe than sorry. 

PRO's point is irrelevant. Again, some men develop prostate problems over the age of 50. If men have health issues around this time, they can sit down, but this doesn't apply to all men.

My opponent argues that doctors say there is no health benefit for healthy men to sit and pee. However, he only looked at the article about prostate health. I linked another article that showed, sitting down to pee, can reduce the chances of cysts and infection

This is an example of PRO misreading his sources. Let's see what it said, shall we? 


For older men with prostate problems, in particular, sitting down to urinate could help them empty their bladders more effectively and reduce the risks of cysts and other health complications.

Again, this benefits some older men (50 and above) with prostate issues, exactly as I pointed out. PRO simply repeats a point that has already been addressed.

To argue that all men should sit down because some elderly men with prostate disorders are medically advised to, is the logical fallacy of composition.
Remember, in the average healthy man, there is absolutely no health benefit to sitting or standing.

Sitting was no better than standing for urinary health

Sanitation
PRO makes a laughable false analogy to defecating on the floor. My point is simple. It's possible that more particles can escape while standing, but this isn't an issue basic sanitation and care can't handle, especially for people that live alone, no different from any act of hygiene. PRO's source says nothing about this so called "invisible cloud of piss" because PRO made it up. Quite simple. Read the material for yourself. 

This hardly applies to most cases when men stand to pee. People stand to pee in urinals, and this isn't a problem at all because urinals are designed for convenience. You can also contract diseases from sitting on public toilets because they are touched surfaces. Sometimes it's just better to stand up. Some may choose to stand because it's more comfortable for them.

Conclusion
I have shown there is no health cost or benefit to whether a healthy man sits or stands. People should follow the option that is comfortable to them, and it should not be anyone's business. PRO has made silly points, making up situations to claim that standing to pee is "transphobic", while only citing minor health benefits that apply to some elderly men. 

Please vote con!



Round 3
Incel-chud's avatar
Incel-chud
Pro
#5
Con needs to be aware, I am a trap. We can use the word tranny to refer to ourselves, but it is unacceptable for him to use the word. Please deduct conduct points from him.

I want the judges to realize, that there is a shared Burden of proof this debate, and that con has not contested a shared BOP.

This means that in order for con to win on arguments, he needs to prove that most men should stand to pee. He has failed to show this, so he can't win. He merely mitigated my points, while offering no affirmative case of his own.

Traps

Con has asserted that my example of people entering a restroom after a tranny is absurd. Judges, can draw from their own experience to see if my assertion that sometimes people have to use the bathroom after another individual in the same restroom, occurs.

Once somebody enters a restroom. Let's say the tranny is a new female. They are in the habit of leaving the toilet seat up, due to peeing sitting down, not being normalized. It's not like the next individual has to be nosy, they just need to have seen the tranny leave the bathroom and a toilet seat up.

It's not absurd for me to say that there are lines to go to the potty sometimes, nor is it absurd for me to say women notice when a toilet seat is left up, typically. Whether they are intentionally looking for it or not.

Health benefits

I argued not only that peeing, while standing up was better if a person has prostate problems, but that also a lot of prostate problems go undetected, so better safe than sorry. Con drops my argument that prostate issues often go undiagnosed, so you can't know whether you are in fact healthy enough not to benefit from sitting to pee.

Pro has dropped this argument about undiagnosed cases, so judges should accept that it is a good ideal to sit to pee, just in case you are one of those undiagnosed individuals.

Habit

I have brought up repeatedly, but have not hammered on is the difficulty of breaking a habit. Look back, it gets mentioned by me. Con has not offered a rebuttal for me arguing that getting in the habit now, means you are already in the habit, once you do get prostate issues or change genders.

Sanitation

Con argues my source does not support my assertion of a mist of piss forming because of splashback. It's semantics. I mist of a liquid just means tiny spread out droplets invisible to the naked eye. The source supports my assertion. Con merely says to mitigate the extra sanitation issues from pissing standing up, but this is only mitigating my point while admitting it does make things nastier.

Conclusion

The voters should vote Pro. This is a shared BOP and con has not provided a single affirmative argument prior to rounds where it was too late for me to respond. Of all of my affirmative arguments, con merely mitigates them. Meaning all my arguments stand, even if you accept con's arguments which merely mitigate them.

Con has dropped arguments, such as me pointing out undiagnosed prostate problems, and the safe or sorry argument.

Novice's avatar
Novice
Con
#6
Forfeited