Instigator / Pro

Being Suicidal does not mean you have depression


The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

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After 2 votes and with 6 points ahead, the winner is...

Publication date
Last updated date
Number of rounds
Time for argument
Two days
Max argument characters
Voting period
One month
Point system
Multiple criterions
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Contender / Con

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Round 1
I'll let con go, 
and ofc this the one you except, Ace. 

Table of Contents.
1. Introduction to the topic at hand
2. Why there is an intrinsic link between suicidal actions/thoughts and depression
3. To conclude


Before we debate we must first know what we're debating about. 

Depression = Short or long lasting feelings of hopelessness, emptiness, sadness, or frustration
Suicidal thoughts = Thoughts or feelings related to the want to end one's own life
Suicidal actions = The attempt (unsuccessful or not) to take one's own life
Suicidal tendencies = Thoughts or actions related to suicide 

The intrinsic link defines the following as common causes of suicidal tendencies 
Those all seem pretty reasonable correct?
Now take a look at the Mayo clinics 'Risk Factors' for depression
  • Certain personality traits, such as low self-esteem and being too dependent, self-critical or pessimistic
  • Traumatic or stressful events, such as physical or sexual abuse, the death or loss of a loved one, a difficult relationship, or financial problems
  • Blood relatives with a history of depression, bipolar disorder, alcoholism or suicide
  • Being lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender, or having variations in the development of genital organs that aren't clearly male or female (intersex) in an unsupportive situation
  • History of other mental health disorders, such as anxiety disorder, eating disorders or post-traumatic stress disorder
  • Abuse of alcohol or recreational drugs
  • Serious or chronic illness, including cancer, stroke, chronic pain or heart disease
  • Certain medications, such as some high blood pressure medications or sleeping pills (talk to your doctor before stopping any medication)
 As you might have noticed there is a clear overlap between causes of depression and causes of suicidal tendencies (Mental issues, trauma, bullying/discrimination addiction, etc).

Looking further into the article they mention that the suicidal tendencies can be caused by 
increasing hopeless[ness] and worthless[ness] for some time.
Hopelessness and worthlessness? Those sure sound familiar, in fact if one were to look at the causes of depression laid out by the Mayo clinic both of those are prevalent. 

To conclude 

Pro is trying to argue a point that has been put down by organizations such as the Mayo clinic. Between the clear link between the two and the number of reliable sources arguing no I'm excited to see how Pro defends their argument.

Round 2
Table of context 
1. clarification.
2. Introduction/claim.
3.   body/explanation
4. conclusion

1.     Clarification:
      I am in now way shape or form saying that someone with suicidal tendencies doesn't have depression.  
The claim I have put forth is that ones own self whom has depression or suicidal tendencies does not necessarily have to have both.

2. Claim:                                                                                                          Correlation vs causation  

     My claim is as follows: 
1.A person(s) is not suicidal because they are depressed or depressed because they are suicidal.
2.A person(s) may be one without another, although some do experience both. 
3.Correlation does not mean Causation. 

3. Body/explanation                                                                                  Defining & explaining 

     "Suicidal depression isn’t a clinical diagnosis, but it’s a term you may see. Instead, most mental health professionals refer to it as “depression with suicidal thoughts.”
Clinical depression, or major depressive disorder (MDD), is a mood disorder. While there is not an exact cause for depression, Doreen Marshall, PhD, VP of Mission Engagement at the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention (ASFP), says it can be linked to a combination of factors such as physical brain structure, brain chemistry, hormones, or genetics."

"When someone has clinical depression with suicidal ideation as a symptom, Marshall says it means that they are experiencing suicidal thoughts as part of their overall health symptoms. “However, it’s important to remember the vast majority of people who are depressed do not go on to die by suicide,” she explains."

As stated Suicidal depression is not a clinical diagnosis.
Also stated within the quote "most mental health professionals refer to it as “depression with suicidal thoughts.”"
In other terms,  depression can include suicidal thoughts, although depression is not causation of suicide. 

"If you have suicidal thoughts you may be experiencing depression, but you may also be suffering from another form of mental health issue. An anxiety disorderbipolar disorderschizophrenia, dissociative disorder or PTSD are just some other mental health diagnoses that could cause a person to have suicidal thoughts. If you are experiencing suicidal thoughts it is important that you go speak to your GP. They may then organize an assessment of your mental health to determine if you are suffering from a mental health issue."

within the quote it explains how having suicidal tendencies does not mean necessarily that you have depression.
This quote states: "but you may also be suffering from another form of mental health issue."...

This was written by: Rebekah Connolly
Which their autobiography states: "Since joining spunout Rebekah has focused her studies on how inequalities can impact young people’s access to information, gaining a Cert in Mental Health and Community from UCC, a Post Graduate Cert in Sexuality and Sexual Health from DCU and a Post Graduate Cert in Trauma Studies from UCC." 

4. Conclusion                                                                                                          Why I am correct.

     In conclusion con is arguing that if you have depression you have suicidal tendencies, whilst in fact that is incorrect, remember that correlation does not mean causation. 
While we are on this topic, if you are feeling suicidal thoughts please contact the suicide prevention line which is: 800-273-8255.

Good luck con! 

5. Sources

Round 3
Round 4