Instigator / Pro
8
1462
rating
17
debates
26.47%
won
Topic

Physical media is better than streaming services.

Status
Finished

All stages have been completed. The voting points distribution and the result are presented below.

Arguments points
0
6
Sources points
4
4
Spelling and grammar points
2
2
Conduct points
2
2

With 2 votes and 6 points ahead, the winner is ...

RationalMadman
Parameters
More details
Publication date
Last update date
Category
TV
Time for argument
One day
Voting system
Open voting
Voting period
One week
Point system
Four points
Rating mode
Rated
Characters per argument
12,000
Contender / Con
14
1776
rating
404
debates
67.45%
won
Description
~ 246 / 5,000

definitions:

physical media: DVD, BLU ray, VHS, etc.

streaming service: Netflix, Hulu, Disney+, etc.

rules:

* respond as quick as possible and as good as possible
* avoid these fallacies: https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/
* follow site's TOS.

Round 1
Pro
About my taste: I like older movies(typically every good quality movie that came out before 2012)

pros of physical media as a whole:

* No need for internet to function
* No need to pay weekly, monthly, yearly.
* No need for subscription
* Includes a near infinite list of movies, games, tv shows, music, etc.
* can be collected, and you can show off your collection to your friends.
* does not block screenshots unlike Netflix and other streaming services
* cannot be removed from libraries for reasons of out of your control unlike Netflix and other streaming services.
* library can still exist after company discontinuation unlike streaming services.
* will not slow down due to WIFI.
* contains bonus content.
* library is not stormed by immense quantity of originals unlike Netflix
* Access to many of the greatest movies of all time( I have Spirited Away - my favorite movie - in my library of DVDs)
* If you don't watch the DVD movies for a long time you will still be able to access them and nobody is coming in to take them.
* No need for awful UI.
* There are not that many kinds of physical media going around, only a few competitors. This makes buying a movie much simpler. The streaming service market is oversaturated with streaming services such as https://www.smartmove.us/choice/streaming-services-listing

DVD:
* really cheap
* Can be played in the middle of a road trip if your car has a DVD player
* can be played on a computer with an optical drive.
* can last over 100 years if well kept: https://www.sony.com/electronics/support/articles/00009195

Blu ray:
* survives up 150 years.
* high quality sound.

CD:

* Songs are usually stored in albums with many other songs.  
* You can play them in the middle of a road trip(especially in the wilderness) where you are far away from any WIFI signal.
* You can give the artist you like money without the need for ads.

the supposed cons of physical media:

* No music video from cd: Music videos are pointless and usually terrible.
* can get lost: only if you're an irresponsible person and don't put them in the right place.
* no originals: Only if you even care. I dislike originals from every streaming service. 
* can get scratched: only if you suck at using them.
* Streaming services have large library: Yes a large library were most movies/shows are crap, also were half of all the content is originals. Also streaming services have movies numbering in the thousands:
> more than 5000 shows and movies for Netflix, half of all of that is originals(around more than 2500 and I have manually counted)
> 10000+ movies and shows for Amazon prime
> 500 movies(can't get tv show count) for Disney+
> around 4,150 for Hulu.
> know that these numbers will be subject to change(although very, very small change).
they may seem like a lot of content, but that's nothing compared to the innumerable amount of content for DVD and Blu Ray.



Con
I'll state my case and leave all rebuttals to Round 2.

Pro's case is based on sheer ideas of quality that firstly are untrue and secondly imply something about subscriptions to services like Netflix that are also untrue.

Netflix and Hulu let you pull out every month and do not trap you or goad you into longer-term contracts. On the flip side, Netflix in particular not only innovates (which Pro implies is a negative) with many quality original series and movies, but the point is that all of these online streaming platforms make a disproportionately secure way for the producer/provider and consumer to interact with safe risk involved for both.

A classic line I see from 'oldies' or 'boomers' these days is that platforms like Netflix are killing off creativity but the exact opposite is true. Another issue is also that before, you didn't just need to be rich enough to make your movie and series, oh no you had to be rich enough to mass-produce legitimate DVDs. Legitimate DVDs are not just about paying a cd and writing on it, that's illegal and known as 'ripping' (old school version of what now is torrenting). Even if it's your own media you needed to do things in a very official way or else the CD easily ends up discoloured and overheated during the writing (it's setup that way for security) whereas a proper 'raw DVD' comes from a specific disc written in an official way that leaves it silver and shiny.

You had to pay for licensing, consistent copyright and had to convince shopkeepers to gamble hard on your movie/series in case consumers didn't like it. There was no way on Earth for Joe Schmoe random producer to reach ordinary people outside his local area at all. This all changed now. If you can convince Netflix to invest, or Disney or whoever or at the very least after some minimalistic, moderate success talk them into renting your series/movie to put on their platform, you can hit masses just like *poof* and the best part? If it goes wrong, you still got some guaranteed cash out of it, your time and effort weren't wasted. 

This type of easing of gambling is also seen by consumers. Consumers/viewers needn't spend one cent extra to risk seeing something they'll hate, they click play check it out and if they don't like it can switch over to something else. This means both providers and consumers are able to risk safer with more edgy series and movies.

Spotify or Pandora and music is even more so. All you need is enough Soundcloud fans to qualify to get onto Spotify (I don't know the full details). What I know is if your label or distributor is any of these (these include very underground ones): https://artists.spotify.com/providers you can easily get onto Spotify as a listed artist.

Now to just quickly dispel a myth. Quality if the highest Spotify and Netflix, Hulu etc products is equal to anything short of blu-ray in physical media and blu-ray is a lot more expensive.



Blu-ray quality would be very, very slightly better than that. All other DVD variants will be equal.

As for music, only sheer vinyl (similar to blu-ray but for music) will slightly push the quality that the highest Spotify quality offers.

The point is that quality-wise only the crème de la crème of physical, where it's a lot more expensive for that 1 movie or series, is the quality truly beyond the peak of online streaming.

I will get to the rest of Pro's case in round 2.

I feel my singular point about the smoothness of risk for producer and consumer for time and money put in is so strong and so irrefutable that I'll win this debate on that alone.

As for the fact that if the disc breaks or house sets on fire etc it all is a lot of money wasted, Pro says to just be more careful... so, I won't go into that. I will say it is a factor though and adds to how risk-free and truly guaranteed-reward streaming is for provider and consumer.

Round 2
Pro
"Netflix and Hulu let you pull out every month and do not trap you or goad you into longer-term contracts."

You can still rent a DVD you know that. Either way, your money was still lost when you go to Netflix or Hulu. Heck even Netflix is still giving out DVDs for rent.

"On the flip side, Netflix in particular not only innovates (which Pro implies is a negative) with many quality original series and movies,"

A strawman again, I am not anti-innovation as I am a conservative. Okay Netflix innovated way back in 2007, but Netflix is awful now and the

"but the point is that all of these online streaming platforms make a disproportionately secure way for the producer/provider and consumer to interact with safe risk involved for both."

Oh yes, do have to point out that streaming services - being websites - can get hacked. Also your netflix account can get hacked. Here's a scary statistic for you:



"oh no you had to be rich enough to mass-produce legitimate DVDs. Legitimate DVDs are not just about paying a cd and writing on it, that's illegal and known as 'ripping' (old school version of what now is torrenting). Even if it's your own media you needed to do things in a very official way or else the CD easily ends up discoloured and overheated during the writing (it's setup that way for security) whereas a proper 'raw DVD' comes from a specific disc written in an official way that leaves it silver and shiny.

You had to pay for licensing, consistent copyright and had to convince shopkeepers to gamble hard on your movie/series in case consumers didn't like it. There was no way on Earth for Joe Schmoe random producer to reach ordinary people outside his local area at all. This all changed now. If you can convince Netflix to invest, or Disney or whoever or at the very least after some minimalistic, moderate success talk them into renting your series/movie to put on their platform, you can hit masses just like *poof* and the best part? If it goes wrong, you still got some guaranteed cash out of it, your time and effort weren't wasted."

The only people who have to worry about this are film makers, and the average joe isn't going to struggle with this.

"On the flip side, Netflix in particular not only innovates (which Pro implies is a negative) with many quality original series and movies, but the point is that all of these online streaming platforms make a disproportionately secure way for the producer/provider and consumer to interact with safe risk involved for both."

A straw man to imply that I hate innovation. I love innovation and I also critique apple under Tim Cook for not innovating. Also I am a conservative by the way

Here's some bad netflix original movies and shows:

* Cuties - A literal child porn movie. This is still on Netflix
* First temptation of Christ - A blasphemous movie were Jesus is literally portrayed as gay.
* Bill Nye saves the world - woke Bill Nye the Science Guy reboot complete with gender ideology nonsense.
* Dear White People - racist show.
* Richie Rich - terrible show that is a run of the mill children's sitcom.
* Magic School Bus rides again - A horrible The Magic School Bus reboot with horrendous flash animation
* 365 days - The fifty shades equivalent of Netflix - but even worse.
* Death Note 2017 - Awful movie adaptation of anime Death Note
* Insatiable - terrible show with a terrible premise
more bad originals:




"A classic line I see from 'oldies' or 'boomers' these days is that platforms like Netflix are killing off creativity but the exact opposite is true."

I have never said that Netflix was killing off creativity. This is a strawman.

"This type of easing of gambling is also seen by consumers. Consumers/viewers needn't spend one cent extra to risk seeing something they'll hate, they click play check it out and if they don't like it can switch over to something else."

You can literally watch a Youtube clip of the show/movie online for free. And if you're lucky you might get the whole film/show(like with Walking with Monsters documentary)

"This means both providers and consumers are able to risk safer with more edgy series and movies.""

This only matters if you like edgy movies or series(which I don't watch).

"Now to just quickly dispel a myth. Quality if the highest Spotify and Netflix, Hulu etc products is equal to anything short of blu-ray in physical media and blu-ray is a lot more expensive."

"Blu-ray quality would be very, very slightly better than that. All other DVD variants will be equal.

As for music, only sheer vinyl (similar to blu-ray but for music) will slightly push the quality that the highest Spotify quality offers.
"

"The point is that quality-wise only the crème de la crème of physical, where it's a lot more expensive for that 1 movie or series, is the quality truly beyond the peak of online streaming."

to even get 4k on Netflix you need strong internet. Blu Ray - being physical - can do all that without the need for internet.
You don't even have to get all movies on physical. It's better to have 10 good movies on DVD than have 1000 all bad movies on a streaming service. You would be saving a lot of money if you only buy a few movies that are good.








Con
To put this all into economic perspective for you, a DVD generally costs $5.00 to $20.00, and that means the cheapest DVDs only let you buy 2 for 1 month of the cheapest Netflix, for 3 cheapest, bad DVDs you get 1 month Netflix... For an expensive DVD you get highest quality 1 month Netflix for 4 screens to view at one time.

To convince a seller in a shop to sell your DVD is already hard whereas for a streaming service with thousands of shows, it's a safe enough bet to at least trial-run you for a month. Now, imagine blu-rays (they can range hugely we are talking $40 per blu-ray for nwer movies and $25 as bare minimum for newer movies). Are you gonna risk somebody's blu-ray as a retailer? Should they risk making it? Should consumers risk buying it, watching it and hating it?

The fact is the reason the blockbuster store got big was due to rental concept. That's exactly what streaming is on a massive scale.

It also helped to curtail the motive for Internet piracy:
Just because of the rise of Spotify and Netflix, the online piracy has fall down to its lowest rate in years, according to a research. According to Intellectual Property Office (IPO), which is tasked with fighting copyright infringement, found that 15pc of internet users illegally accessed films, music and other material between March and May.

The rate is 18pc down than last year, and also the lowest recorded rate in the five years the study has been carried out. Recently, 44pc of internet users are using exclusively legal means, up from 39pc at the end of 2015. The Minister for Intellectual Property, Baroness Neville Rolfe explained, “Consumers appear to be turning towards legitimate streaming en masse”.

On-demand internet services, which enable subscribers’ unlimited access to a catalogue of music or videos and films for a monthly fee or via an advertising-funded model, have been accused of diluting industry revenues and artists like Taylor Swift have restricted access on some platforms.

As per the research, those using peer-to-peer file-sharing services – a popular way to pirate material – fell from 12pc to 10pc of all those who download or stream media.
Baroness Rolfe added, “Online copyright infringement has been a running sore for the UK’s creative industries for far too long. I am extremely pleased to see that there has been a decline in infringement and that consumers appear to be turning towards legitimate streaming en masse.”

The research showed that while spending on music and films is rising, spending on video games and TV shows is falling.

We can sit and pretend things. We can say 'oh la di da blu-ray and vinyl achieve a higher max quality than max of streaming by a small margin' or we can focus on what matters: if for producer flexibility and consumer flexibility this benefits both ends and by goodness does streaming win in a landslide.

As a consumer, you are paying to freely, risk-free venture into edge-of-your-taste picks that you wouldn't otherwise risk. Spotify and Netflix use algorithms to recommend series to you, sure yes but the point is that if something's brand new and sponsored by Netflix or Hulu (or a product of Disney and/or HBO) you can stream it right way, to your pleasure.

Streaming pricing packages are always insanely beneficial if you like enough on the platform to justify monthly viewing. That's just the fact of it.
Round 3
Pro
To put this all into economic perspective for you, a DVD generally costs $5.00 to $20.00, and that means the cheapest DVDs only let you buy 2 for 1 month of the cheapest Netflix, for 3 cheapest, bad DVDs you get 1 month Netflix... For an expensive DVD you get highest quality 1 month Netflix for 4 screens to view at one time.

Even though you may pay $20.00 for a DVD. When you buy 1 movie you like on DVD, you will never have to pay for it again unless it breaks(which will not likely happen if you are responsible enough). Furthermore, if you take care of it well enough the DVD can last for over 100 years.

Also you don't have to get a credit card in order to buy a DVD. You can just grab some cash, go to the local store, and buy a film that you have wanted to watch. You get your movie and pay the cashier.
 
To convince a seller in a shop to sell your DVD is already hard whereas for a streaming service with thousands of shows, it's a safe enough bet to at least trial-run you for a month. Now, imagine blu-rays (they can range hugely we are talking $40 per blu-ray for nwer movies and $25 as bare minimum for newer movies).

Once again, the average Joe who just wants to watch a movie doesn't have to deal with this. Only movie makers have to be worried.

Are you gonna risk somebody's blu-ray as a retailer? Should they risk making it? Should consumers risk buying it, watching it and hating it?
Maybe this was a problem in the 80s and 90s. But in the modern age of Youtube and the internet there are people like Nostalgia Critic and I Hate Everything who post reviews of various movies which you can check to see if you're going to like a movie or not.

Netflix does not display ratings for movies either so whenever you watch a movie you never watched before you are basically gambling on quality.


It also helped to curtail the motive for Internet piracy:
Just because of the rise of Spotify and Netflix, the online piracy has fall down to its lowest rate in years, according to a research. According to Intellectual Property Office (IPO), which is tasked with fighting copyright infringement, found that 15pc of internet users illegally accessed films, music and other material between March and May.

The rate is 18pc down than last year, and also the lowest recorded rate in the five years the study has been carried out. Recently, 44pc of internet users are using exclusively legal means, up from 39pc at the end of 2015. The Minister for Intellectual Property, Baroness Neville Rolfe explained, “Consumers appear to be turning towards legitimate streaming en masse”.

On-demand internet services, which enable subscribers’ unlimited access to a catalogue of music or videos and films for a monthly fee or via an advertising-funded model, have been accused of diluting industry revenues and artists like Taylor Swift have restricted access on some platforms.

As per the research, those using peer-to-peer file-sharing services – a popular way to pirate material – fell from 12pc to 10pc of all those who download or stream media.
Baroness Rolfe added, “Online copyright infringement has been a running sore for the UK’s creative industries for far too long. I am extremely pleased to see that there has been a decline in infringement and that consumers appear to be turning towards legitimate streaming en masse.”

The research showed that while spending on music and films is rising, spending on video games and TV shows is falling.
Yes maybe. but it's really simple to go on Youtube to find trailers or specific clips of a movie and buying a movie at the store is really simple. And also you may still have to pirate since many of the most critically acclaimed movies of all time like Spirited Away are not on Netflix. 
 
We can sit and pretend things. We can say 'oh la di da blu-ray and vinyl achieve a higher max quality than max of streaming by a small margin' or we can focus on what matters: if for producer flexibility and consumer flexibility this benefits both ends and by goodness does streaming win in a landslide.
As I said, BLU ray can do 4k without the need for good internet connection.

As a consumer, you are paying to freely, risk-free venture into edge-of-your-taste picks that you wouldn't otherwise risk. Spotify and Netflix use algorithms to recommend series to you, sure yes but the point is that if something's brand new and sponsored by Netflix or Hulu (or a product of Disney and/or HBO) you can stream it right way, to your pleasure.

Yes I have seen those algorithms and they are very stupid. I don't watch R rated movies or Netflix originals but Netflix still recommends them to me. Also the Netflix thumbs system is notorious for not working:

Con
This youtube Kritik by Pro is so ridiculous, YT is a streaming platform and has payable upgrade for its movie and series content, wtf am I meant to reply? Pay for Youtube Red if you want, or Youtube normal Premium: https://www.youtube.com/premium

Can be hacked... vs Can be broken/damaged
 Negated successfully

Needs wifi connection (apparently 'good' one but these days any half-decent connections is streamable easily) 
^ you buy this anyway monthly usually for a set cost
But...
Need DVD player, decent monitor/screen, buying per series/movie no risk-free environment to risk, you open it and can't return it unless it's provably broken upon opening
^ big waste of money

Oh no you can have Netflix Originals Pro doesn't like!

So what? There's thousands more stuff to see there and hear on Spotify and Pandora.

Like... Lol?

A producer of a series or movie can also risk more. The maker of Squid Game didn't want to make something 'just for Korea' he went hard af because he wanted to go global and damn, he did. That's the creativity you never had before it. You had established directors dominating because the distributors like Warner Bros, Disney (ironic as they are also streamable now) and Fox had a chokehold on the industry.

We are in a new era, an era of streaming.

Adapt or perish, rules of nature.

Wahoo!