The debate is a tie on "Atheism is simply a lack of belief".
Participant that receives the most points from the voters is declared a winner.
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Disclaimer : Regardless of the setup for voting win or lose, The aim of this interaction, Is for those that view it, Learn and or take away anything that will amount to any constructive value ultimately. So that counts as anything that'll cause one to reconsider an idea, Understand a subject better, Help build a greater wealth of knowledge getting closer to truth. When either of us has accomplished that with any individual here, That's who the victor of the debate becomes.
Both positions are actually in agreement. A lack of belief is a belief in a lack there of. Either position will have a negative or opposite like the yin and yang.
You can't silence me. Freedom of speech, everybody has a voice.
They wanted to silence Christ Jesus, the prophets, ministers moved by the HOLY SPIRIT. Protesters, activists, Malcolm X, Sam Cooke, Ray Charles, Martin Luther King Jr. , Bruce Lee. Even adding D.J. Trump to it.
You may not like what someone has to say but it doesn't justify negating their voice. They have a voice, they have an opinion, they have thoughts, they have facts and understanding.
Take what you can and learn from it. Don't throw it away. Take what you can learn from it. Seek understanding. How does one do that?
Questions and answers.
The debate "Atheism is simply a lack of belief" which can be found on this site was a draw between the two opposing sides. So appropriately, the vote of neutrality is applicable.
I'll leave it there because I can add more but I'll save it.
Any lack of understanding, any questions, leave a comment or send a message.
I do ask, please attempt to communicate with me and try to get full understanding of what is being said during this exchange.
- As typical, "The burden of proof lies with someone who is making a claim, and is not upon anyone else to disprove" . So we conclude that pro holds the full burden of proof with the absence of any other clause etc.
- Pro is arguing and must prove without any remaining form of reasonable doubt that this debate is a tie. Now I could argue that PGA2.0 won the debate, or that Double_R won the debate. Ultimately if it is uncertain as to whether this is a tie or not, I still have won the debate because Mall's proposition remains simply unproven.
- The full resolution of the debate reads "the definition of atheism should be accepted as merely a lack of belief in a god'"
- As this is a four-round debate I will use this round primarily for opening statements and rebuttals to pro. Remember if I simply refute pro's arguments and provide none of my own I have also won this debate, however, that is no fun and I will expand on my constructive case.
- As stated in my opening case I could argue that either side on the resolution won the debate and I will be arguing in the next round that PGA2.0 is the rightful winner of this debate.
- Firstly pro goes on a stream of points on whether or not atheism is a religion. I can dismiss them all as none of them are relevant to our debate on whether "atheism is simply a lack of belief" is a tie or not.
- Here is pro's main argument for the debate being a tie. To summarize pro's case is a syllogistic form:
- p1. A debate upon a proposition that has no inherent disagreement is an inherent tie.
- p2. This proposition has no inherent disagreement
- c. This debate is an inherent tie
- I of course will reject p2. Why? Because it is incoherent. A proposition in itself as defined in propositional logic is "a statement that can be either true or false." A proposition must have a true or false value that confers inherent disagreement, otherwise, it would not be a proposition. It is self-evident that the statement "the definition of atheism should be accepted as merely a lack of belief in a god'" is a proposition with two respective sides. It either is or is not the case that atheism should be accepted this way.
Each side has a negative which means without.No (negative) belief in God versus a belief in no (negative) God.An argument can be made on both sides but run parallel. Tomato or tomayto, tomahto, half full, half empty.In summary, no contradiction means no disagreement means in agreement.
- Contrary to pro's implication, a logical contradiction is "the conjunction of a statement S and its denial not-S" . Pro does not appear to be referring to a logical contradiction that would be expressed in the context of an individual's propositions, what pro is saying here is simply that there is no disagreement.
- But pro and con disagree on how the definition of atheism should be accepted. Pro believes atheism confers no active beliefs while con believes that atheists actively believe that no gods exist.
- Pro also falsely compares these two statements and uses negative in an incorrect way. Negative means "consisting in or characterized by the absence rather than the presence of distinguishing features." It is pro who argues based on the negative or absence of belief. Con argues positively on the presence of belief. The existence of god is irrelevant to this debate, the meaning of atheism is being deliberated upon.
- And thus pro's arguments have been sufficiently disproven.
- Mall does not argue on specific points of the debate but that the debate has no inherent disagreement. I have refuted his argument showing that the use of language is being debated and not the condition of God's existence. Therefore Mall has not proven our resolution to be true.
- As I stated, I will be arguing that PGA2.0 won the debate in question here.
- Quite simply, the debate is resolved "the definition of atheism should be accepted as merely a lack of belief in a god."
- Double_R makes a case based on negations. Theism according to them is a belief that gods exist and thus the logical negation is disbelief that gods exist or a lack of belief. However pro does not do a great job in separating the statement "I do not believe in X," from the statement "I believe that X does not exist." He hardly makes an attempt to do so in round one.
- PGA2.0 capitalizes on this very well. His best argument is on Richard Dawkin's measure of belief which shows the different degrees of ontology to which the strong atheist affirms that God does not exist. Double_R's response to this was very underwhelming: "con needs to make his own arguments, not link us to Wokeupbug."
- Con successfully creates a relevant distinction between atheism and agnosticism winning the points from arguments. Pro simply drops this telling con not to cite sources presumably. Ultimately as PGA cited many credible sources throughout the debate, compared to the 0 that pro used, PGA wins both the sources points as well.
- I will be expanding on specific points subsequently, but as I have already refuted Mall's case and he holds the burden of evidence, I have won the debate as of now.
- Mall does not deny that the resolution is a proposition. This is good as denying such would be utterly embarrassing.
- If Mall does not deny the resolution is a proposition, Mall does not deny that the resolution can be true or false.
- I will syllogize my argument concerning Mall's case and I ask pro to reject a premise or identify a logical problem within it.
- p1. The resolution R (the definition of atheism should be accepted as merely a lack of belief in a god) is a proposition.
- p2. A proposition can be true or false (definition of a proposition).
- p3. If one side of a debate argues for the truth of a proposition and the other side argues for the falsity of the same proposition, there is inherent disagreement.
- p4. The instigator argued for the truth of the R and the contender argued for the falsity of R.
- c. There is inherent disagreement within the debate.
"Firstly pro goes on a stream of points on whether or not atheism is a religion. I can dismiss them all as none of them are relevant to our debate on whether "atheism is simply a lack of belief" is a tie or not. "In other words, you have no refutation. The points can't be refuted. You'll be tied up in a web of contradiction.
- They are irrelevant points. Whether or not you think Atheism is a religion doesn't matter in the context of our debate or the debate we are analyzing.
Those two terms "belief " and "disbelief " in and of themselves are not in agreement.
- Mall here openly concedes the fundamental disagreement within the debate. Everything else he says, I will show to be irrelevant.
This is why if you say an atheist believes there is no God, it's not contradicting or disagreeable to the statement of an atheist not having a belief in God.
- This is irrelevant to the resolution. PGA2.0 and Double_R are not debating the atheist's ontological perspective on God.
- They are debating how this should best linguistically be accepted.
- Ultimately, whether or not the atheistic view precludes God's existence, in reality, is not being debated. This is commonplace. What is being debated is whether atheism should be accepted as:
- As we saw above, Mall concedes the disagreement within the debate.
- He seems to be arguing that both positions can still have the same ontological perspective on God's existence in reality, but that's irrelevant. What is being contested is how this perspective should be accepted definitionally.
- Mall's argument for this debate being a tie has essentially fallen apart. Why is that? Because Mall isn't arguing it is a tie based on what is actually being debated.
- He is arguing it is a tie based on the fact that both classifications of Atheism can rule out the existence of God, when what is being debated is the presence of belief and how atheism should be accepted.
- Mall has effectively failed to meet his burden of proof. He has not made an argument as to why this debate is a tie.
- It's clear Mall has no actual argument or just doesn't understand that he is talking about something irrelevant to the debate in question and this debate.
- Dropped. Extend
- Dropped. Extend
- My argument is in logical form so all Mall needs to do is reject a premise and poevide reasoning for such
- Everything Mall says is just a repeat of what he said in the previous round. The debate in question is not on the ontological nature of God, but how a human perception of God's ontological nature should be accepted in society.
- Extend all previous rebuttals.
I argue that this glass of water is to be defined only as half empty. That is the valid basis to say it should be defined as a negative or absence of material. You argue the exact opposite. It should be defined as half full due to the positive or presence of material.
- Yes, this is the debate in question. How a principle should be accepted, not the theory itself. However the analogy doesn't represent this debate perfectly; one is on the basis of a metaphysical assessment and one is a purely material one.
- So regardless…the hypothetical literally goes against Mall's point. The existence of the subject is not being debated, how a view on said existence should be evaluated is.
- A proposition that affrims or negates upon a way the glass of water should be accepted/classified is still a statement with true or false value rhat cna be affirmed or contended against.
- I won't really address Mall implying that I can't dismiss things that have literally nothing to do with our resolution. I encourage the instigator to refrain from wasting his time.
How can we have both? There is no, no, no ,no conflict between the two. No problem. Define atheism whichever which a way of these. No problem
- This is Mall's essential argument, repeated for the third time after being refuted.
- There is conflict in that one confers a proactive belief and one does not but implies an absence of belief.
- Mall can think the debate is a waste of time, or he can disagree that this is a subject that should be debated, but that doesn't mean anything substantial.
- We aren't debating your opinion about the debate proposition, we are debating whether or not it was a tie.
- We are debating whether or not this debate was a tie.
- Pro holds the entire burden of evidence.
- Pro dropped my argument that PGA2.0 won entirely and repeats himself on something irrelevant to the debate making an easy decision for the voters.