The system Pro is proposing is one where those most desperate for money donate actual bodily organs to those most capable of spending it.
This is fundamentally immoral in a capitalistic society and fundamentally impractical in a socialistic one as it would increase the issues for the donators later in life (which would be working class people with heavily manual labour jobs).
People in very physical, poor-paying lines of work already have lower life expectancy, this would amplify the divide.
Men who work as labourers or in other physically demanding roles have a greater risk of dying early than those with more sedentary jobs, researchers say.
The finding, from scientists in the Netherlands, reveals an apparent “physical activity paradox” where exercise can be harmful at work but beneficial to health when performed in leisure time.
Pieter Coenen, a public health researcher at VU University medical centre in Amsterdam, said the reason for the disparity is unclear, but he believes it may reflect the different types of exercise people get at work compared with those in their free time.
“While we know leisure-time physical activity is good for you, we found that occupational physical activity has an 18% increased risk of early mortality for men,” Coenen said. “These men are dying earlier than those who are not physically active in their occupation.”
Other researchers say the finding may simply reflect a greater likelihood for people in manual labouring jobs to have unhealthier lifestyles in which diet, smoking and alcohol consumption all conspire to reduce life expectancy.
But Coenen believes other factors are at play. “If you go out for a run for half an hour in your leisure time,” he said, “that increases your heart rate and you feel well afterwards, but when you are physically active at work, it’s a very different type of activity. You are working for eight hours a day and have limited rest periods. You are lifting, doing repetitive movements, and manual handling.
“Our hypothesis is that these kinds of activities actually strain your cardiovascular system rather than help you to improve the fitness of your cardiovascular system.”
International public health guidelines encourage people to spend half an hour a day on moderate to intense physical activity to keep healthy, but previous research has shown that those who work in construction and other physically demanding jobs are the least likely to exercise in their leisure time. “They are in double trouble,” said Coenen. “They don’t benefit from the good aspects of leisure-time activity, and they are exposed to the risk of occupational physical activity.”
Physically demanding jobs are linked to shorter working lives, more sick leave and unemployment than jobs that don’t rely on muscle and brawn, suggests a large long term study of Danish workers in hundreds of different types of jobs, and published online in Occupational & Environmental Medicine.
The findings have implications for plans by various European governments to increase statutory retirement age, say the researchers.
Amid longer lifespans and falling birth rates in much of Europe, the expectation is that people will have to work longer before they can retire. In Denmark, the statutory retirement age is set to rise from 65.5 in 2019 to 72 by 2050.
But healthy life expectancy isn’t necessarily increasing at the same rate as life expectancy, particularly among the more disadvantaged in society, nor do these reforms take account of the impact of ageing on muscle strength, say the researchers.
To try and gauge the toll a physically demanding job might take on the ability to work, the researchers looked at the working life expectancy of 1.6 million Danes between the ages of 18 and 65 who had a job as of November 2013.
Working life expectancy captures the number of years a person at a given age is expected to work until retirement from the labour market.
The level of physical demand required for each person’s job was measured by the job exposure matrix, or JEM for short. This covers 317 different types of occupation.
The JEM score was categorised as low physical demands (below 16); moderate (16-28); and high (28+).
Jobs scoring highly included those in construction; manual labour, such as carpentry, masonry, painting and plumbing; cleaning; and manufacturing industries.
Periods of sick leave, unemployment, and disability pension payments were recorded for each participant for the next four years until 2017.
The final analysis is based on workers aged 30, 40, and 50. It showed that more men than women were categorised as having very physically demanding jobs according to the JEM score.
Men in this group were, on average, nearly 3 years younger than their peers in physically undemanding jobs. Women, on the other hand, were around 10 months older.
For both sexes, a physically demanding job was strongly associated with shorter working life expectancy, and more sick leave and unemployment compared with a physically undemanding job.
At the age of 30, working life would be expected to last almost 32 years for men with physically demanding jobs and nearly 34 years for men with physically undemanding jobs.
Among women, the equivalent figures were just over 29.5 years and nearly 33 years, respectively.
In all, a 30 year old woman would be expected to have 3 fewer years of working life; 11 more months of sick leave; and 16 more months of unemployment, the analysis showed. The equivalent figures for a man would be 2 years; and 12 and 8 months, respectively.
The researchers point out that there are likely to be other factors in the ability to work, which were not accounted for in this analysis, including lifestyle factors, such as obesity and smoking, as well as long term conditions.
But they nevertheless conclude: “This study showed that high physical work demands are a marked risk factor for a shortened expected working life and increased years of sickness absence and unemployment.”
They add: “The findings highlight the urgency of addressing problems related to physical work demands with regard to, for example, an increasing statutory retirement age.”
I am going to be voting on so many debates between today and tomorrow
I didn't give any new arguments, if you mean sources that backed up exactly what I'd said then yeah.
I expected that Con would wait until the final round to give most of his arguments, and I was not disappointed.
Interesting use of the plural.
In my opinion it would only ever be sensible to sell a kidney.
Therefore in a civilised society it would perhaps be reasonable to not allow anyone to sell their kidneys.
I believe this debate will turn into a deontology vs. utilitarianism debate over whether the lives saved by paid kidney transplants outweigh the deontological argument that people may only sell their kidneys because of unfair pressure. I believe it will probably come down to personal preference, but maybe ill be surprised!
But if you don't have a permit, you're not permitted to do the particular thing. Permit/permitted come from the same root.
And why exactly do you need a permit to do anything? Exactly, you don't. Permits only serve as discouragements so that this act is less accessible and people who "don't have a permit" are discouraged from doing it. Is being harder equal to impossible? No.
No. People can do things even without permits.
And why does that "law" really matter to you? You are permitted to do anything as long as you can do something.
Allowed = permitted or authorized
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/allowed
Out of all the example that you could have given, you chose the one that yields circular reasoning.
Argue definitions, we shall. I think that if there is a way of doing something, it is allowed. You are not allowed to drive me to the station that doesn't exist because that logically does not stand. Selling kidneys is possible and logically non-contradictory.
Selling their kidneys illegally
Example: ______
no they don't necessarily know better at all, after all they are poor in the first place and may be there due to poor skills at judging how to make accurate long-term decisions.
Nobody is advocating for FORCING the poor to sell their organs. But it should be a right. The poor know what is better for them than the government. Their body, their choice.
People do things they're not allowed to do, so your premise is false
Since the presence of illegality does not entirely cut the means of doing something but merely narrows it, "allowed" never stops here.
you will lose that semantic game if we go into what allowed means but okay
Everywhere. The fact there is a way of selling kidneys, surface or dark web, means it is "allowed" technically. The law only serves as discouragement, for example, it makes the cost of robbing the banks...more than what you have robbed, and it makes the cost of killing a person...life in prison. Nothing makes you "not allowed to do something". The law only discourages.
And it sure does a good job in keeping me from being a criminal.
Yeah, in China.
The topic makes no sense. Adults can already sell kidneys now.