Jesus is not God
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There are many contradictions in the Bible and Christianity. I would like to state that Jesus is not God. Lets leave it at that.
‘For I am God, and not man’ (Hosea 11:9)
‘Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know.’ (Acts 2:22)
‘He will judge the world in righteousness through a man whom He has appointed’ (Acts 17:31)
‘the man Christ Jesus’ (Tim. 2:5)
‘For the son of man is going to come’ (Matthew 16:27)
‘until they see the son of man coming in His kingdom.’ (Matthew 28)
‘But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority’ (Mark 2:10)
‘because he is the son of man’ (John 5:27)
‘My father is greater than all.’ (John 10:29)
‘of Your holy servant Jesus.’ (Acts 4:30)
‘I am indeed a servant of God.’ (Quran 19:30)
‘I do not seek my own will, but the will of Him who sent me.’ (John 5:30)
‘For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of Him that sent me.’ (John 6:38)
‘for God cannot be tempted by evil’ (James 1:13)
Jacob is God’s son and firstborn: ‘Israel is my son, even my firstborn.’ (Exodus 4:22)
Solomon: ‘I will be his father, and he shall be my son.’ (2 Samuel 7:13-14)
Ephraim: ‘for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.’ (Jeremiah 31:9)
The everlasting, one God, in whole or in part, does not die, disintegrate, or decompose: ‘For I the Lord do not change.’ (Malachi 3:6)
‘God is not a man’ (Numbers 23:19)
‘For I am God, and not man’ (Hosea 11:9)So God is not a man, yet Jesus was a man. Now if Jesus is not divine on earth, then how is he God? Because God has to be God always. I will let Con sort this out.
Jesus spoke to a man who had called him ‘good,’ asking him, ‘Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone.’ (Luke 18:19)
‘My Father is greater than I’ (John 14:28)
‘My father is greater than all.’ (John 10:29)
Rayhans absurd level of burden of proof
To know such a thing, must mean he's read ALL Christianity theological theory and even disproven said philosophy of God
God is infinite in the Bible, so he indeed cannot be broken down into parts. However, in no Christian sect is Jesus said to be a separate part of God; he IS God. He and the father are one. There is no separation between them. God is not separate. You just think of Jesus as separate from God, but he's not. Hence, your point is nullified as they are one. Jesus is God embodied.
You would be correct to say I'm my brain, but I'm MORE than just my brain.
Jesus is God, but not God in his entirety.
Jesus in most if not all Christianity sects is God taking on the limited form of a human temporarily.
Jesus is simply one aspect of God, just like my arm is an aspect of me
This is why Jesus is a limited version of God
God is greater than Jesus but Jesus is not separate from God.
I do not think my level of burden of proof was absurd. It is simple. Jesus is not God. I never said according to the Bible, I never said according to Catholicism, all my statement was is 'Jesus is not God'. The Bible is not the book of Christianity? It is, which is why I quoted every quote from there. Con could disagree with Sunni and Shia and quote things from the Quran, however we all follow the same book. I never thought of a specific sect when I wrote this statement, I just wanted to say that Jesus is not God.
Do Christians have different interpretations of the Bible? If your own religion's people is interpreting the Bible in many different ways, which one is right? This is a deluded point to say the least. If you are saying there are so much theologians and philosophers that are Christian and they all have different interpretations, then which is right? Because there can only be 1 right one as the Bible is not supposed to be open to interpretation, it is considered to be a divine book.
If Jesus comes on earth, and Jesus is God, then where is God?
"You can't say he is on earth and in the heavens because that makes 2 entities"
There are 3 entities. The father, the son and the holy spirit. According to Christians, Jesus is not the father and vice versa.
If my brain is removed from me then I will be lifeless.
So does that mean that the father relies on Jesus?
Jesus has to be God entirely or he is not God full stop. If God is the most powerful, Jesus needs to be the most powerful.
God takes on a form of a human, even if it for a short time, it would make God limited.
God has to eat to survive, same with drinking, God has to sleep, God has to go to the toilet. Are these the things that God should do?
This is illogical. If he has infinite potential but cannot carry out that potential then that means he is limited. And a limited version of God is a contradiction as well. God is not limited. So if you are a limited version of God, you are not God at all.
How can God be greater than God when God is supposed to be the greatest?
Then you do believe Jesus cannot be God according to the Bible, since that's where you necessarily get your arguments from.
No two Christians seem to agree on everything. No matter how educated.
God is INFINITE, OMNIPRESENT. He isn't limited by things such as space or time. To be infinite is to have no boundaries. God is incomprehensible. To have no boundaries means he cannot be comprehended with the mind, as the mind puts things into boxes, polarities, and runs off relativeness. God is not in a "place". God is the place itself. God's being has no end. There is nowhere where he is not. Watch the Ibn arabi video i sent in the previous round, (Muslim scholar).
No it doesn't. My arm is on my keyboard while my eyes are in my skull
Nothing exists BUT God.
Entity definition: Something that exists as a particular and discrete unit.Following this definition, my thumb is an entity. My hair is an entity. Am i my thumb? well yes, but no. It would be right to say my thumb is part of me but it is not me in my totality. It is not greater than the totality of me. So yes, my thumb is me, its part of my being. But its not me in my totality. This is perfectly symmetrical between the relationship of the holy trinity.
sure... but you're still not JUST your brain. Other aspects of your body are part of you too. You could say your brain is the most important part of you, but my analogy still stands.
I could have replaced my brain with any other part of my body and it would have made just as much, if not more, sense. In the sense of a human we rely on the brain but God is INFINITE. I'm not sure why you're not getting what that means.
Why? That's denying God's infinity. God isn't a man in heaven with a long beard. Jesus IS the most powerful. He is part of God. He's simply temporarily in the theatre of life, experiencing what it is to be mortal. When Jesus died, he didn't truly die. Nothing in this world could hurt him. He IS all powerful. When Jesus proclaimed he could move mountains with nothing but a thought if he wished, The only reason he didn't was out of respect for people's free will. That's why he let himself be crucified, he does not deny his own laws.You're thinking is extremely dualistic in black and white terms, "it's either this or that," but the reality is much different. God won't be limited by your black and white thinking.
Not if being limited was simply an unreal illusion which you could overcome at any moment by realising your oneness with the Father (as Jesus taught)
I've answered this a million times. My thumb is part of me, but not me in my totality. Therefore, I'm greater than my thumb. Jesus is simply part of the greater body of God. God is infinite. I'm unsure why you think these gotcha's of relativism work against God's infinity. I'm disappointed. Atheists constantly use these ridiculous arguments against Muslims and Christians. And here you are using the same tactics of trying to confine God to finite. Putting a graven image on God, limiting him to what humans can do, such as only being in one place at one time.
Now if God is not limited to time and space, and he is on earth, which is limited to time and space, is that not a contradiction?
For example, a person could say can God cease to exist? OR can God lift a rock that is too heavy for him to lift?
He doesn't need to rely on anything for His existence, then he cannot come onto earth. As he has to eat to survive, making Him not God.
Illogical argument. If you do not have eyes, then you cannot see what you are typing. So your your sight is dependant on your eyes. If you really want to compare a human to God, so be it, however this is not logical.
then he cannot come onto earth. As he has to eat to survive, making Him not God. Very simple to understand, yet many Christians do not as well as agree on the trinity.
There are things that exist that is not God otherwise we can call everything God. We cannot call God's creation God because if you want to do that, then you have to call ALL of his creation God.
This still does not make any sense. My thumb is an entity yes. But without my thumb, I could not hold anything/ I will be more limited than before. If the thumb is part of me, then it relies on me to function. Correct?
So if we take away the heart, then I will die. If we take away Jesus, then God will not exist. This is what you are clearly saying and you are clearly misunderstanding it.
Yes I am not just my brain, but my brain allows me the capacity to think. And if the brain was not in my head, I could not think which would make me worse off than before. This makes me limited, which is again not an attribute of God.
So if we replace the brain with a heart and does this still make sense? Does the father rely on Jesus? This is true according to you.
This is ignorance. God has infinity. Yes. But when God is on earth, His infinity is no more. He is now a mortal. If Jesus is the most powerful, why could he not save himself from the crucifixion?
This verse clearly demonstrates that Jesus was not all powerful. He was fearing the alleged 'crucifixion'. If he was the most powerful, why did he say 'let it be your will not mine'? Surely he doesn't want his will to be done as it is not a powerful one. Only Gods will is the most powerful. It truly baffles me how Christians believe in the trinity.
There are many prophets in the Bible who are the sons of God. Does this make them God too? Why only Jesus?
There are many such quotes like this, which make it appear like everyone is a spiritual child of God and can do the works of Christ, not just Jesus. It is just that only Jesus realised this connection to God.
how am I limiting God? You are and I am just saying that you are. The thumb argument does not make sense either. If I am greater than my thumb and the father is greater than Jesus, how does this make Jesus God? God is the greatest, none can be more greater than HimYou've been saying God cannot be in two different places at once. You've been projecting human qualities on God all though ought this debate. Is your thumb not part of you? if its not, then you're just simply wrong. If it is, my argument is perfectly coherent.The question I have is this. If I do not believe in the trinity then I go to hell according to Christians. Why is the trinity so hard to fathom if it is the key belief of my religion and impacts my salvation. My salvation relies on believing in the trinity. If Christians cannot agree, then how can I agree?