Instigator / Pro
0
1500
rating
2
debates
50.0%
won
Topic
#3690

Marxism solves problems in society and increases equality

Status
Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics
Winner
0
0

After not so many votes...

It's a tie!
Parameters
Publication date
Last updated date
Type
Standard
Number of rounds
2
Time for argument
One day
Max argument characters
5,000
Voting period
One month
Point system
Winner selection
Voting system
Open
Contender / Con
0
1480
rating
17
debates
52.94%
won
Description

There is a 5k charecter limit. The argument my opponent would be taking is anti

Anti = I disagree with that statement because ....

Pro = Me

Round 1
Pro
#1
It is important to understand the way capitalist society functions to better understand my argument. The way I think of it is a Capitalist's main goal is to make money. Ever other motive is one of the person in the situation and are personal motives that don't apply to everyone. Things like climate change, homelessness, food insecurity, wage theft and job dissatisfaction are things that some of the "job creator/employers" of capitalist society might care about but others might not. Due to this observation it is evident that the best case scenario for a member of capitalist society is too make money while not doing things like this that are unnecessary. The largest companies of the world have incentives to use behavior that doesn't look out for their employees or the world in general. It was found that 100 companies produce 71 percent of the world's carbon emissions. It is ridiculous that this happens because of this happening there is extreme flooding in the middle east and the hottest days in recorded history have all happened within the last 20 years. Climate change and millions to billions a year in wage theft are  because of reckless capitalism. This effect most would agree is negative and capitalism prospers on negative action in the pursuit of profit wars and atrocities we're all committed in the name of profit and all of it was caused by capitalism. On the other hand Communist Society values the collective and the world more than profit. A world filled with poverty and exploitation of the masses would cease to exist if the Marxists values came to fruition. Things like slavery and the blatant effort to keep people poor/just surviving is apparent and obvious under capitalism. Even under a republic like the US the  people can't use their voice to control the government. Corruption isn't illegal it is just expensive you can pay lobbyists to make politicians vote in favor of the richest 1%.  I believe there was a recent Stanford study that describes how the "Democratic" system of government is directly controlled by the people with capital. The inequality of the world in most forms would disappear under communist society this is all do to the emphasis on quality of life and power distribution. Racism has caused people to have suffering do to lynchings, segregation, slavery, and overall neglect for the well being of anyone not apart of the powerful few. This affect of imperialist and elitist behavior would be abolished under communism the basic most core values of communism is equality and prosperity for all. Many marxist leaders like martin Luther King WEB Du Bois and malcom X have also happened to be egalitarian and civil rights leaders. This is not a coincidence its because of  the marxist values that this is the case. Besides the civil rights leaders people like Einstein were marxist and very vocal about anti capitalism. On the other side people like Hitler claimed to be socialist to persuade people to join his party yet he in every way was pro fascist/capitalist. One of the draws of socialism is the promise of equality and freedom without predjusice. The most basic ideas of communist literature like das kapital is that the control of the masses is the main goal of the few to remain in power. For these reasons and countless more it is obvious that Capitalism emphasizes the power of the rich and suppresses the people that are under their rule.
Con
#2
"It is important to understand the way capitalist society functions to better understand my argument. The way I think of it is a Capitalist's main goal is to make money"

While this is not wrong, the pro oversimplifies the goals of capitalism, while a strong motivation of Capitalism is to make profit it's also About establishing a free market system, and private ownership. Capitalism - Wikipedia it's important not overlook these facts If the pro is claiming that we need to understand capitalism to understand their argument as well. 


"Every other motive is one of the people in the situation and are personal motives that don't apply to everyone. Things like climate change, homelessness, food insecurity, wage theft and job dissatisfaction are things that some of the "job creator/employers" of capitalist society might care about but others might not. Due to this observation, it is evident that the best-case scenario for a member of capitalist society is to make money while not doing things like this that are unnecessary."

The pro gives no general explanation of what capitalism is or how it functions and mentions several issues such as homelessness and climate change but gives no indication on how this relates to capitalism beyond claiming that employers may or may not care about such issues. The pro also gives no sources to validate this claimed "observation".


"The largest companies of the world have incentives to use behavior that doesn't look out for their employees or the world in general. It was found that 100 companies produce 71 percent of the world's carbon emissions."

The pro provides no evidence for this supposed study and is therefore hearsay.


"It is ridiculous that this happens because of this happening there is extreme flooding in the middle east and the hottest days in recorded history have all happened within the last 20 years. Climate change and millions to billions a year in wage theft is because of reckless capitalism."

The pro accuses capitalism of causing extreme flooding in the middle east and increasingly hot weather patterns are also mentioned in the pros accusations but once again has provided no sources or studies to prove this case.



"On the other hand, Communist Society values the collective and the world more than profit. A world filled with poverty and exploitation of the masses would cease to exist if the Marxists values came to fruition."

This is false because communist societies such as NK, USSR, and CCP have proven that a true communist society results in slavery, famine, and massive exportation towards its own people. My question to Pro is if this claim is true then why has every communist society done exactly what you claim is not supposed to happen in a communist society?

"Things like slavery and the blatant effort to keep people poor/just surviving is apparent and obvious under capitalism. Even under a republic like the US the people can't use their voice to control the government."

The first amendment, The US electoral voting system, and the prohibition of slavery rebuttals these claims that the Pro has made. 

"Corruption isn't illegal it is just expensive you can pay lobbyists to make politicians vote in favor of the richest 1%."

Corruption IS illegal in the USA. Corruption Laws, Charges & Statute of Limitations | Federal Charges.com And for all the claims of lobbyist actions that the Pro has made they have not provided one source to validate their conspiracy theory.

  "I believe there was a recent Stanford study that describes how the "Democratic" system of government is directly controlled by the people with capital. "

Since the Pro only "Believes "there is a study we can't consider that to be true at this time. A "study" However would not validate this assertion, it would only mean that university students took a subjective project and published their non-objective findings based on non-factual data.


"The inequality of the world in most forms would disappear under communist society. This is all due to the emphasis on quality of life and power distribution. Racism has caused people to have suffering due to lynchings, segregation, slavery, and overall neglect for the wellbeing of anyone not a part of the powerful few."

The pro asserts that communism would essentially end all problems in the world but as absolutely nothing but their own words to offer as conformation which is unreliable at best.

The ultimate problem with the pro's argument is that they not only provide no sources to back up their claims but also have demonstrated a biased mindset by ignoring the failures of communism and blaming capitalism for war, slavery, and global warming with no evidence beyond hearsay. If the Pro insists that we
have to understand capitalism to understand their argument then the pro should base capitalism on what's is Known about capitalism and not what the Pro Thinks what capitalism is, which they have clearly shown to not be the same.

Round 2
Pro
#3
My response to the anti's argument is simple. The counter argument to my claim is valid but incorrect.


To begin with Anti states that capitalism isn't all about profit but also to "Establish a free market system and private ownership " This is true but double speak, capitalism is inherently a system made to benefit someone with capital gains. The main motive of an capitalist economy is for Capitalism to make money made vs the labor needed to make it. A free-market is just a system in place to help a capitalist gain more profit or in a capitalists opinion to help them grow and help the consumer without limitations.


Another claim the counter argument states is that the problems of income inequality and others are weren't supported by me. But it is a fact that the issues like homelessness and poverty increasing are made worse by or caused by capitalism. Also the reasoning for the employer being a recurring subject is the amount of control and effect an employer has. Facts support that capitalism's worst effects can and are caused by a employers neglect.
 

The other claim that was countered was the statement that 100 companies produce 71 percent of emissions. this is mostly untrue but I will say it still is a significant amount of emissions. However the claim that the largest companies don't care for their employees as much as their executives is somewhat true. (This Forbes article seems a little biased but still is supported by evidence)


the flooding in gain the same argument which is valid about sources. Here is the report I was referencing.

The next claim you stayed was that "This is false because communist societies such as NK, USSR, and CCP have proven that a true communist society results in slavery, famine, and massive exportation" This however is untrue I will not dip into whataboutism but the countries you are talking about are not marxist. Marxism in it's very essence isn't north Korean authoritarianism it actually supports democratic systems of goverment. Being state owned does not make a county communist. China and the USSR are most definitely state run capitalism but exporting to the rest of the world.

Another counter argument used is that since slavery was ended the US prohibited slavery which I can infer means you think that Capitalism is not inherently the cause of slavery. Also the first amendment and American electoral system doesn't ensure adequate representation/ a democratic system.


The next statement I made wasn't supported. This is a overview of how corruption and voter importance matter in the US.


The counter argument to my slavery statement was inadequate. In this article it gives a description of marx's opinion on slavery during the civil war and during colonialism. Beyond that statement I misrepresented my claim about Marxists society advantages. What I meant was the facts of unequal treatment and unfair quality of life are opponents of Marxism. In a Marxist controlled society these things would attempt to be destroyed unlike in our society that enables it.

The problems with capitalism I stated were correct. I apologize for not providing sources. It is evident to me that the anti appears to only support McCarthyism and a uneducated view of Marxism. The innermost parts of marxist culture are establishing a fair world with a better rlife for impoverished/ working people. The modern and American Centric ideas are incorrect and not supported by Marxist beliefs.
Con
#4


To begin with Anti states that capitalism isn't all about profit but also to "Establish a free market system and private ownership " This is true but double speak, capitalism is inherently a system made to benefit someone with capital gains. The main motive of an capitalist economy is for Capitalism to make money made vs the labor needed to make it. A free-market is just a system in place to help a capitalist gain more profit or in a capitalists opinion to help them grow and help the consumer without limitations.

According to pro, a free market is true, but they think it is a way for capitalists to make more money. Since they did not provide any evidence, this is effectively hearsay. Further, the pro only mentioned capitalism's goal of making money, ignoring/ omitting existing facts like free market. 

Another claim the counter argument states is that the problems of income inequality and others weren't supported by me. But it is a fact that issues like homelessness and poverty increasing are made worse by or caused by capitalism. Also, the reasoning for the employer being a recurring subject is the amount of control and effect an employer has. Facts support that capitalism's worst effects can and are caused by an employer's neglect.

 In spite of the pro acknowledging they have not proven their claims, they assert that it is true because it is "a fact." However, we cannot assume this is fact because they failed to prove it. Employers are not landowners, nor do they decide the minimum wage, so the argument remains hearsay. 

The other claim that was countered was the statement that 100 companies produce 71 percent of emissions. this is mostly untrue but I will say it still is a significant amount of emissions. However the claim that the largest companies don't care for their employees as much as their executives is somewhat true. (This Forbes article seems a little biased but still is supported by evidence)

The Pro admits that their original claim was untrue, but they also say that large companies don't care about workers is "somewhat" true. Yet also admits their sources are biased.

the flooding in gain the same argument which is valid about sources. Here is the report I was referencing.

The next claim you stayed was that "This is false because communist societies such as NK, USSR, and CCP have proven that a true communist society results in slavery, famine, and massive exportation" This however is untrue I will not dip into whataboutism but the countries you are talking about are not marxist. Marxism in it's very essence isn't north Korean authoritarianism it actually supports democratic systems of goverment. Being state owned does not make a county communist. China and the USSR are most definitely state run capitalism but exporting to the rest of the world.

   The pro argues that my counter claim is untrue but refuses to address the evidence that substituted my counter argument.

Another counter argument used is that since slavery was ended the US prohibited slavery which I can infer means you think that Capitalism is not inherently the cause of slavery. Also the first amendment and American electoral system doesn't ensure adequate representation/ a democratic system.
more hearsay claims that are inadequate to count as a rebuttal. 

The next statement I made wasn't supported. This is a overview of how corruption and voter importance matter in the US.

Since the pro argued corruption was not illegal, this overview is irrelevant. 

The counter argument to my slavery statement was inadequate. In this article it gives a description of marx's opinion on slavery during the civil war and during colonialism. Beyond that statement I misrepresented my claim about Marxists society advantages. What I meant was the facts of unequal treatment and unfair quality of life are opponents of Marxism. In a Marxist controlled society these things would attempt to be destroyed unlike in our society that enables it.

Marx's opinions are irrelevant to the war's actual history. see here 

The problems with capitalism I stated were correct. I apologize for not providing sources. It is evident to me that the anti appears to only support McCarthyism and a uneducated view of Marxism. The innermost parts of marxist culture are establishing a fair world with a better rlife for impoverished/ working people. The modern and American Centric ideas are incorrect and not supported by Marxist beliefs.

Despite omitting information about capitalism, admitting bias, using biased sources, and ignoring my sources, Pro claims to be correct. Overall, the pros argument boils down to "yes, I'm biased and didn't source things well, but I'm still right" if pro can't list none biased sources or be honest in the debate then their argument should be considered false at best.