Instigator / Pro
0
1479
rating
318
debates
39.31%
won
Topic
#3796

The class of people referred to as P.O.C. is a socially constructed reference.

Status
Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics
Winner
0
3

After 3 votes and with 3 points ahead, the winner is...

RationalMadman
Parameters
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Last updated date
Type
Standard
Number of rounds
5
Time for argument
Two days
Max argument characters
20,000
Voting period
One month
Point system
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Voting system
Open
Contender / Con
3
1700
rating
544
debates
68.01%
won
Description

Regardless of the setup for voting win or lose, The aim of this interaction, Is for those that view it, Learn and or take away anything that will amount to any constructive value ultimately. So that counts as anything that'll cause one to reconsider an idea, Understand a subject better, Help build a greater wealth of knowledge getting closer to truth. When either of us has accomplished that with any individual here, That's who the victor of the debate becomes.

Basically, all people are people of color, logically so.

Questions or comments for clarity, send them on through.

Round 1
Pro
#1
All people are people of color physically and logically.

But to politically separate groups of people of these classifications, the white classification has already been established.

Hence the whites and the colored. That's a social adjudication and label.

Politics involve people making legal, democratic and elective decisions.

Then we have a social influence to arrange "colored" or "colored" folks to "people of color" into that style of phrasing.


Con
#2
So, there are multiple elements to this resolution/topic.

Note: P.O.C. really is PoC since the 'o' is for 'of'.

  1. Is the abbreviated term PoC a Class?
  2. If it is a class, is it socially constructed?
  3. If it is socially constructed and is a class, is it a reference?
  4. Does 'class of people' instead of 'class of person' apply to PoC?
As Con, I would like to agree with and concede that if PoC is a class, it is socially constructed.

PoC stands for... ?

What POC Stands for in Professional Settings
If you come across the abbreviation POC at work or in your studies, the context can help you find the correct meaning.

Plan of Correction
Point of Contact
Point of Connection
Proof of Concept
Paid On Call
Proof of Coverage
Pain on Contact
Point of Care or Plan of Care
Post-Operative Care
Purchase Order Confirmation
Professional Officer Course
Point of Contact
Point of Capture
Proof of Correction
Paid Outside of Closing
Port of Call
Particulate Organic Cotton
Portable Object Compiler

None of these would apply except 'person of colour/color'.

Let's see if elsewhere we can get it saying 'people' instead.

Well it would seem one supports Pro:

POC
person(s) of color; people of color

However, perhaps Merriam-Webster made a sever error here, let's see an example of where PoC is used from the same link:

Being a POC in Vermont has been lonely for me and the other Vermonters of color I've met. We've lived most our lives as the only ones; the only POC in our classes, the only POC in our extracurricular activities, the only POC (excluding family members) in our neighborhoods. 
- Kina Thorpe

… many of our artists are POCs that felt excluded from Vancouver's electronic music scene, so we carved our own space.
- Nancy Lee
… donate proceeds to the many POC doing revolutionary work at various levels of the industry. 
- RJ Joseph

The face that Nancy Lee Says PoCs is proof that it actually means person of colour, not people. RJ Joseph made the grammatical error. Capitalising the O is also an error since it's simply an 'of'.

So, I argue that even if it is a class (yet to be explored) it is a class of person, not people. That said, let's prove that it's not a class.

==

What are classes of people?

Absolutely everywhere I search on the Internet, it's made clear that not only is class primarily based on those in similar income brackets and social circles but that it in fact is even less physical and tangible than we could imagine, it's also about how people act and feel inside. In other words, a poor white person is far closer to a poor black person in class than a middle-class or wealthy black person. Similarly, a person who is caucasian in the same neighborhood as another is closer to their class than a person of the very same ethnicity, not just race, that is in another neighborhood if we presume both to have lived in their respective separate neighborhoods for a long time.

A theory of classism
In a 2012 paper in Psychological Review, Kraus, Piff, University of California, Berkeley, psychology professor Dacher Keltner, PhD, and colleagues posit that social class — which they define as "a social context that individuals inhabit in enduring and pervasive ways over time" — is a fundamental lens through which we see ourselves and others. Because lower ranking people have fewer resources and opportunities than those of relatively high rank, they tend to believe that external, uncontrollable social forces and others' power have correspondingly greater influence over their lives. Success for them, therefore, depends on how well they can "read," rely on and help out others, the psychologists' theory holds.
By contrast, those who enjoy more resources and greater class status live in contexts that enhance their personal power and freedom — larger and safer living spaces, the means to buy high-priced goods and experiences, and education that provides access to influential people, ideas and venues. These conditions give rise to a more self-focused approach to life, the theory states.

"With wealth and privilege comes this island of sorts, this increased insularity from others," as Piff puts it. 
Another important aspect of the theory is that rank is, in part, subjective and relative. All relationships are marked by class scrutiny: Am I higher or lower than this person? Research also shows that people tend to be quite accurate in their assessment of their own and others' class rank, and that this self-assessment likewise predicts outcomes. For example, people who perceive themselves as lower in rank have worse health outcomes overall than those who see themselves as higher ranking, research finds.

In fact it is actually important to know that what PoC is, is actually a status group and not a (social) class:

social class, also called class, a group of people within a society who possess the same socioeconomic status. Besides being important in social theory, the concept of class as a collection of individuals sharing similar economic circumstances has been widely used in censuses and in studies of social mobility.

History and usage of the term
The term class first came into wide use in the early 19th century, replacing such terms as rank and order as descriptions of the major hierarchical groupings in society. This usage reflected changes in the structure of western European societies after the industrial and political revolutions of the late 18th century. Feudal distinctions of rank were declining in importance, and the new social groups that were developing—the commercial and industrial capitalists and the urban working class in the new factories—were defined mainly in economic terms, either by the ownership of capital or, conversely, by dependence on wages. Although the term class has been applied to social groups in a wide range of societies, including ancient city-states, early empires, and caste or feudal societies, it is most usefully confined to the social divisions in modern societies, particularly industrialized ones. Social classes must be distinguished from status groups; the former are based primarily upon economic interests, while the latter are constituted by evaluations of the honour or prestige of an occupation, cultural position, or family descent.

So, PoC is not a class, it is at best a social group classification... Except...

It kind of isn't.

==

It is an anti-status-group, not even a status group.

If you had a Venn Diagram with all social groups based on race and ethnicity and looked for the circle where no PoC was involved, you'd have literally white people and perhaps Jews, as well as more caucasian Hispanics (mainland Europe Spanish, Portuguese and/or Italian descent without mixing with the natives of Latin America, or any foreigners to form the Latino race).

This means that PoC is not even a status group of people, it's not just a word slip-up. I am saying that even if Pro hadn't mistakenly used the term 'class' instead of 'status group', it's an inverted, anti-status group.

It is the culmination of all those that don't fall into the 'Caucasian' and perhaps Jewish and white-leaning Hispanic group.


Round 2
Pro
#3
I'm sorry if I missed it. It went kind of lengthy on your side.

Do you agree that the label "people of color " is socially constructed?
Con
#4
Person if colour is a status group term for a person who is not caucasian.

It is not a social class of people as it includes upper, middle and lower/working class.
Round 3
Pro
#5
My oh my, I still missed it.

Once more asking for this answer.

Do you agree that the label "people of color " is socially constructed?

Would you say yes or no to that?
Con
#6
Do you agree that the label "people of color " is socially constructed?

Would you say yes or no to that?

'Person of Colour' is a socially construct status group label, it is not a class label.

PoCis for Person of colour, not people and yes it's socially constructed but no it's not a class of people instead it's a status group of people.
Round 4
Pro
#7
" 'Person of Colour' is a socially construct status group label"

" PoCis for Person of colour, not people and yes it's socially constructed "

Thanks for agreeing with me. I agree on that. All that other stuff, not tied to the topic.

I'm sorry if you misunderstood something somewhere.

That's why I offer people to step up to get clarity on anything I meant.

But we can put a ribbon on it, wrap it up, conclude it here.
Con
#8
The topic says 'class' but a status group differs from a societal class.

There are working class whites and upper class blacks. There are middle-class suburbans of all kinds of ethnic background.

Round 5
Pro
#9
That's cool and all. That's all that I meant by what I said. 

It's a wrap.
Con
#10
No, you said 'the class'.