Instigator / Pro
0
1476
rating
336
debates
40.77%
won
Topic
#3797
Suspecting all white people that are able to be racists is correct .
Status
Finished
The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.
Winner & statistics
Winner
0
1
After 1 vote and with 1 point ahead, the winner is...
RationalMadman
Tags
Parameters
- Publication date
- Last updated date
- Type
- Standard
- Number of rounds
- 5
- Time for argument
- Two days
- Max argument characters
- 25,000
- Voting period
- One month
- Point system
- Winner selection
- Voting system
- Open
Contender / Con
1
1709
rating
565
debates
68.23%
won
Description
Regardless of the setup for voting win or lose, The aim of this interaction, Is for those that view it, Learn and or take away anything that will amount to any constructive value ultimately. So that counts as anything that'll cause one to reconsider an idea, Understand a subject better, Help build a greater wealth of knowledge getting closer to truth. When either of us has accomplished that with any individual here, That's who the victor of the debate becomes.
The victims of racism should suspect any white person able to be, should be suspected of being a white supremacist.
Questions and comments, please send them on through.
Round 1
Pro
#1
This debate is strictly arguing from a premise according to it.
So everything is based inside of it and not how things may truly be as actual people and reality.
The premise is that the world is dominated by a system called the system of white supremacy.
It dominates all areas of activity summed up under these nine areas of people activity.
In alphabetical order as follows.
Economics
Education
Entertainment
Labor
Law
Politics
Religion
Sex
War
In each one of these activities involving non-white people, who is in control to affect , dictate, authorize what those non-white people do and don't do are white people who have decided to be white supremacists.
Dominating and mistreating people based on color which is racism.
White supremacy is racism, racism is white supremacy.
There is no other racism but what white supremacy. The white supremacists are in control of all that non white people do and take that power to act not in favor of them . They know to do that based on color.
You can't do that when you cannot recognize color difference. You cannot be a white supremacist without being able to recognize color.
So because of this system, to dominate all the areas of activity, the supremacists have to be effective in all ways.
Even if that way is through trickery, deception and confusion.
Which brings us to the supremacists who are refined versus the ones who are less sophisticated and more noticeable.
In order to dominate a people fully, all of them, that would include the ones who are wise to overt supremacists.
The ones that are wise will try to organize rallies and petitions to stop injustice and change laws.
Now to stay in control, the covert supremacists will play along and allow these so called wise ones into higher offices. Will allow them the titles to appear that they have more political control and changing things making them too, the so called wise ones thinking they're doing away with what is called systemic racism.
Not realizing all along that these so called wise ones are still, sadly, still, still under the thumb of the white supremacists.
See the refined supremacists are like the ones that say "ok you can come in the house and work instead of working out there in the fields".
"I'll give you your forty acres and a mule."
" I'll let you have X, Y and Z . I'll let you have all the titles you want."
All the long, who's allowing them to all of this?
" I'll let you have 2 million dollars, oh make it $40 billion, sure".
"My white ancestors that were slave owners are still on them bills in your pocket. They owned your ancestors and I own you boy, gal. I say , I authorize your paychecks."
"I say where you can move, live. You have to come to me for a job. I decide to put you up in a high office or a down in a ditch job ".
These are the thoughts in the minds of the white supremacists.
Goes back to the areas of activity. That was one example of economics, labor, law.
So this is the system and being that it has such a dominating power to leave a non white person with no way of knowing whether a white person is a supremacist or not because of the refinement, what option is left?
The non whites according to this premise are victims to the system of white supremacy.
How can they determine a white person to be one or not when the system can play both sides to make it look good?
To make it look like the system doesn't exist or just unfalsifiable, the non white person alone can't prove what they believe of someone to be a supremacist.
They can only suspect.
An example, Mr. Zuckerberg is a white man.
He is able to distinguish one color from another. He is white, he is able to be a white supremacist.
Therefore it is correct in a system of white supremacy such as this to suspect any white person that is able to be one, able to be a white supremacist, to be one .
Why?
The refinement allows the non white no way else of knowing the difference so the correct step is to tread carefully, proceed with caution.
Just like a gun suspected of being loaded. Let's say there's no way of knowing. Be careful, suspect that it is armed .
Now please, stay within the premise because this was a very detailed and rather lengthy idea.
Round 2
Con
#4
I can basically Kritik the entire case quite simply; if all white people were racist, then the white-dominated countries and institutions in place would have had no reason to appear non-racist even on a surface level.
The reason that even after blacks were emancipated, that the civil rights movement succeeded thus far is because whites who weren't racist opposed the racism alongside the blacks (or on behalf of, which blacks call 'white savior complex').
Pro implies the following:
White supremacy is racism, racism is white supremacy.There is no other racism but what white supremacy. The white supremacists are in control of all that non white people do and take that power to act not in favor of them . They know to do that based on color.
Yet, racism has been seen throughout history, even amongst people of the same race (ethnosupremacy).
Ancient Egypt is one of the first recorded examples of a racist (or at least ethnosupremacist) empire involving no true caucasians on either end of it. It had a bloodline at the top and other ethnicities, such as Hebrews (ancient Jews) at the bottom:
“Hebrews is a civilization that originatedamong a Semitic people in the ancientNear East. The term Hebrew was notoriginally an ethnic designation. TheHebrews were a class of people whoworked as hired servants in Ancient Egypt at about the time ofRamses II. They had probably been in Egypt for several hundredyears before the kings of Egypt decided to enslave them. They maywell have been descendants of the 12 tribes of Israel, which owedtheir origin to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The Hebrews' escapefrom Egypt is recounted in the Torah in the book called Exodus in
The Asians have always been very racist even to their own race with all kinds of ethnosupremacy, caste system in India etc.
When Japanese actor Koichi Yamadera appeared on the popular variety show Monomane Battle in 2009 to perform the classic "What a Wonderful World," it was likely meant as a tribute to the American jazz tradition that still has a small, dedicated following in Japan. Yamadera, in apparent affection for the jazz master Louis Armstrong who popularized the song, did something that would have elicited gasps in the US but raised only polite applause from his totally unfazed Japanese audience.It wasn't just him: Japanese singers imitating African-American performers have done this often. Baye McNeil, a black American writer who has lived in Japan for a decade, told me he found the blackface appalling — but didn't think it was worth wasting too much time on in a country he loves, despite suffering from routine racism."These singers were some old guys doing niche music and weren't that terribly popular, so it wasn't like they were in my face all the time," McNeil told me.But McNeil lost his patience last month when members of a popular mainstream Japanese group posed for the promotional photo that appears at the top of this page. In it, the members of girl band Momoiro Clover Z grin in full blackface alongside old crooners Rats & Star, who have been performing in paint since the 1980s. The two bands were set to appear together on Fuji TV, a major network.It was Black History Month, and McNeil had had enough. He was not going to let prominent young pop stars pass what he called the "baton of ignorance" to Japan’s next generation on national television.He organized a petition on Change.org to get Fuji TV to drop the segment. Combined with an avalanche of tweets hashtagged #StopBlackfaceJapan, it worked: the show "Music Fair" aired on March 7 without the blackface performance.But as McNeil knows all too well, this episode was only part of a much larger problem with race in Japan, a problem that cannot be quickly fixed with a petition. To Americans, and indeed most people, it’s pretty obvious that blackface is extremely racist. How could the Japanese, as well-educated as they often are, tolerate this practice? The answer goes way beyond mere ignorance of blackface's ugly history, to a powerful national belief in Japan's ethnic purity that leaves the country incapable of dealing with its race issues.
Round 3
Pro
#5
"Yet, racism has been seen throughout history, even amongst people of the same race (ethnosupremacy)."
Are you actually looking at this argument within the circumstances of the premise or the actual world?
I have to stop there because I don't really see you responding to the premise.
You're coming back with your own viewpoint.
The point is to show how the topic statement would be correct or incorrect based on the tailored world of circumstances I particularly laid out.
Con
#6
So, what I did in Round 1 overally was give proof that racism is independent of the racists being white, it is able to be present in all races.
What I alluded to was the idea that if it wasn't for whites who aren't racist, racism by whites wouldn't have been stopped.
Do you understand and agree to this?
JOINT BASE ELMENDORF-RICHARDSON, Alaska – Year after year in the month of February, we take the time to acknowledge prominent African-Americans who have made a difference in American history.More often than not, we tend to focus on the Civil Rights movement and the individuals who played prevailing roles in ensuring equal rights for African-Americans and the like.We are not often reminded of people such as Stokely Carmichael, the leader of the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee, or Solomon Seay, Jr., who was one of three African-American attorneys in Montgomery, Alabama during the Selma marches.The average grade school education tends to miss and neglect many great details of African Americans during the Civil Rights movement - but there is another group which has enjoyed the same unfortunate treatment in the history books.We fail to recognize the movement was not just the lonely work of the African-American community, but the all-around effort of the American people.During the Civil Rights movement, having white Americans in powerful positions supporting the cause was invaluable.Walter Reuther, the former president and leader of the United Automobile Workers union, was instrumental in helping ensure African-Americans were heard.Respected as one of the most powerful people in Detroit at the time, he took full advantage of his position and spoke in support of African-American causes and equality.Reuther made routine speeches, and even addressed the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People.Most notable was Reuther's speech at the 1963 March on Washington, D.C. - the same march we remember for Martin Luther King Jr.'s "I Have a Dream" speech - in which he challenged Congress to enact civil rights legislation immediately.A famous painting, titled "The Problem We All Must Live With," hangs in the White House and highlights the story of Ruby Bridges.Bridges was the first African-American to attend an all-white school in the South.We are missing one of the best parts of the Ruby Bridges story if we forget to include the story of another woman: Barbara Henry.Henry was a white woman from Boston who agreed to teach Bridges after she was ostracized by the school and local community.The community was in an uproar, and many parents threatened not to allow their child to attend William Frantz Elementary School now that, incredibly, an African-American would be learning in the same building.In order to minimize the effect on the entire school, Henry taught Bridges one-on-one for an entire school year, despite facing heavy criticism, hatred and even death threats.Kind and daring gestures such as those displayed by Henry continued to give the people - of all colors - hope in the struggle for human rights, justice, and equality.Immediately following the Civil Rights movement and the assassination of Martin Luther King Jr., there was still a tremendous amount of work that needed to be done for the people.Morris Dees recognized this and co-founded the Southern Poverty Law Center.Despite understanding the repercussions he would face defending the rights of the African-American community, he pressed forward.The lawsuits he originally filed were lawsuits to open public employment, integrate the Alabama state trooper force, and dismantle hate groups such as the Ku Klux Klan.Because of his efforts and the efforts of people like him, remarkable strides were made in the movement towards equality, for all of us.Again, having powerful people support the dream Doctor King spoke of made it more likely for it to become a reality.President John F. Kennedy's involvement in the Civil Rights is not always highlighted; however, he too played a vital role in making the dream come true.After being elected President, Kennedy was very hesitant to speak out about the Civil Rights movement in fear of losing the support of the South.Although the Civil Rights Act of 1964 did not pass before his murder, the stance Kennedy took on civil rights before his death put the plan in motion.Kennedy had placed African-Americans in key positions in his administration; his strategic move was a bold statement and allowed changes to be made at the highest level with hopes of driving others to follow.Thanks to his courageous actions, blacks were able to gain the rights and liberties owed to them as Americans.It is clear our traditional canon of civil rights leaders, even in the strictly African-American category, fails to acknowledge many important contributors.We are remiss to go another year without giving a full picture to the history of the civil rights movement and giving faces to the many white stories that marched alongside black leaders and played pivotal roles in the cause.It is time we break away from our comfort zone, and acknowledge people such as Huey P. Newton, the co-founder of the Black Panther Party, and A. Phillip Rudolph, a labor leader and social activist.The standard classroom's history textbook does a subpar job highlighting these events.It falls to us to understand that one group without the other would have yielded little progress, if any at all - and that progress of theone without the other is meaningless.It is time we acknowledge all parties involved and to educate our youth, ourselves, and those around us this Black History Month.
Not all whites are racist, yet all are 'able' to be.
In other words, if a person goes around suspecting all whites to be racist, one is 100% guaranteed to be wrong about many white people, who are not racist.
Round 4
Pro
#7
I will not address or answer your question until you answer mine.
"
Not all whites are racist, yet all are 'able' to be.
In other words, if a person goes around suspecting all whites to be racist, one is 100% guaranteed to be wrong about many white people, who are not racist."
This clearly shows you absolutely have zero comprehension of the premise.
According to the premise, every white person that is able to be a racist should be suspected of being one.
It is explained in the premise why and you have not shown any sign that you're dealing with the details of the premise.
You're dealing with the context of the actual world and I just said not to do that .
Any white person able, underline able. What makes them able?
They have to distinguish colors as mentioned in the premise. A newborn white person can't be a racist. A senile, demented white person can't be a racist.
The bottom line is to say it is correct to suspect those who are able to be based on the premise laid out, based on the premise outlined.
Con
#8
According to the premise, every white person that is able to be a racist should be suspected of being one.
The premise goes even further than that. It says one should genuinely suspect it to the level where they hold them guilty of being presumed white supremacists before proven to be so.
This is irrational and just inverted racism.
Round 5
Pro
#9
"The premise goes even further than that. "
Don't read into it. It doesn't go further than what the premise actually explains.
If it says that any white person is able to be one IN THE SYSTEM OF WHITE SUPREMACY , they should be suspected of being one . Why?
Due to what the premise also states, there's no way of knowing the difference through what is called refinement.
See you have to go through this premise line by line, point by point. You're just picking at it and then cross matching it with actual reality as we know.
In this premise, the scenario of the world is that everything is dominated by white supremacy.
It's an entire system in place by those who are classified as white and have decided to dominate and control those who are non white in all areas of activity.
So to do this , you need a control of laws so that would mean government.
They're in the government and that's the biggest of all when you can dominate the entire planet .
They control the money, they own all the major companies, businesses and industries.
A non white person is left to answer to higher ups for everything which will most likely be a white person because they dominate and are the majority.
That is the system of white supremacy in this context .
Now the refinement is the polishing up of white supremacy meaning no more or not so much overt behavior like white hooded sheet wearing members of a klan.
Not so much if at all the use of pejorative or abrasive language and direct mistreatment. The mistreatment is gradual, unrecognizable often in the form of tokenism.
As briefly explained in the first round, it was layered and detailed in how this is done by those in ultimate power, authority and control.
"It says one should genuinely suspect it to the level where they hold them guilty of being presumed white supremacists before proven to be so."
One meaning a non white. Not just anyone. The non white are the only eligible to be victims.
If those victims have no way of knowing but are aware of a system in place, somebody has to be a supremacist and the safest way they can play it rationally is to suspect.
That's not saying to accuse and charge a white person outright unless they admitted it first.
Just like any stranger you don't know walking down the street and you know you're in a hazardous, crime infested area or environment, you have to be cautious.
You can't easily trust the stranger to be not a part of what makes that environment unsafe .
Like you can't trust that any white person able in an environment which is the planet to be not a part of the refined system.
Again, with the refined system, you won't be able to detect those individuals as they'll act for you but really against you behind the scenes.
Only those able so that excludes all white people or being every single one.
The ones that are able for instance , the ones that appears friendly, kind, benevolent appears the same as another white person that is actually not a white supremacist.
Like a white person that came in direct to destroy non whites referred to as native Americans.
The overt instant destroyers came in with physical attack.
The covert gradual ones came indirect peacefully with a smile , with a warm greeting and pleasant conversation.
The overt ones wanted the land , took it by slaughtering. The covert ones took it by lulling the non whites to sleep and perhaps even to help them drive their own demise.
This could be done with what appears to be favorable to non whites to manipulate them accomplished with a new discovered herb or firewater.
These two things, the smarter more cunning white supremacists would think up to tout a satisfaction or benefit health wise, etc. that is really transient .
"See this firewater can do this or do that or this herb can heal your people from ailments and whatnot."
That's the language of the supremacist.
In the supremacist mind, these are the ulterior thoughts.
" I just won't tell these people that there are other effects or that it'll put you in a coma while you heal and who knows what I can get away with by the time you get up. If you wake up. I can still work a way to take advantage of you while you're oblivious."
This is just the tip of refinement or the polishing of the system.
Now if you could of dealt with the premise as written in its entirety, we could of spent more of these rounds contesting all the details of its points.
You could of asked questions to open things up to explore the consistency or nature therein.
But I can come up with a context for a topic and you guys have a lot of times, a fixated position on what you want to argue based on your preselected so called sources.
Many times in arenas such as these you have to be able to wing it with the preset criteria presented of its own fashion.
"This is irrational and just inverted racism."
Why?
Is it because a non white victim of racism is left no choice but to suspect an able white person of white supremacy?
This shows right here in this part of the premise, you're not able to understand the position the victim is in. Either you can't relate or identify.
I'm going to leave it off here in closing of this round.
A non white born in the system of white supremacy, governed and dominated by those who are classified as white operate against that non white from a very powerful and refined position.
Not all white people but those who are not going to behave overtly so that the victims can be off guard.
When the victim is in circumstances where he or she can't detect a supremacist, all they can do to play itself is to keep in mind that they could be dealing with one.
Just like a gun that an individual has no knowledge about how to tell if its armed, have to suspect that it could be so they'd be very careful around it.
Now if you don't get that last analogy, you don't want to get it.
You don't want to get it.
Con
#10
I am going to clarify what you said in the title, the description and in Round 1. This is to help voters realise that I am correct about your claim:
Title
Suspecting all white people that are able to be racists is correct .
suspecting all white people that are abl to be racists of what?
Well duh, of being active racists.
Description:
The victims of racism should suspect any white person able to be, should be suspected of being a white supremacist.
being, not just able to be but being.
Round 1 anti-white racism by Pro:
White supremacy is racism, racism is white supremacy.There is no other racism but what white supremacy. The white supremacists are in control of all that non white people do and take that power to act not in favor of them . They know to do that based on color.
Which I debunked ASAP, clarifying that all are able to be racists and that it would clearly be incorrect to assume all are racists, by extension wrong for whites who were fundamental to helping the civil rights movement succeed as well as assisting in the original freeing of slaves.
Round 1 goalpost movement:
An example, Mr. Zuckerberg is a white man.He is able to distinguish one color from another. He is white, he is able to be a white supremacist.
Pro begins already in Round 1 to attempt to move the goalposts despite also asserting that all whites are white supremacists, not just able to be.
Criterion
Pro
Tie
Con
Points
Winner
1 point(s)
Reason:
A bit of a narrow window con slides into, but he catches that the resolution deals not merely with vague possibility, but active suspicion. With his good counter evidence of white people who helped attain equal rights for everyone as clearly not racist by their actions, and pro giving no reason they should be suspected of being racists; and finially no forthcoming other arguments; con takes the win.
Debate done, revolves around what is being suspected and how to hold someone assumed innocent vs guilty overall.
Well, in a point of view, applying critically thinking to everyone, then deem the trustworthy ones as trustworthy, this approach is passable, I guess. Not just potential White Racists.
Almost a truism… however anyone clever could think of exceptions.