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Topic
#3886

North Korean Communist Central Planning Economical System Is The Most Effective Economical System In The History Of Humanity And Makes Best Logical Sense To Be Used Today

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The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

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After 1 vote and with 5 points ahead, the winner is...

RationalMadman
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Description

North Korean Communist central planning economical system is a system where a country is under complete control of The Supreme Commander. The Supreme Commander makes all decisions in society and uphelds His/Her power with military first policy where economy is focused on producing for the military and people are made to support The Supreme Commander completely.

He/She decides who will be His/Her heir. This is how The Government of The Supreme Commander is reproduced.

Round 1
Pro
#1

Lets start with a song of our dear leader Kim Jong Il:

Mount Paektu reaches across
To shape our beautiful land
Cheers resound all over the land
Hailing our dear General
He is the leader of the people
Carrying forward the Sun's cause
Long live, long live General Kim Jong Il

All blossoms on this Earth
Tell of his love, broad and warm
Blue East and West Seas sing
His exploits in their song
He's the artist of great joy
Glorifying the garden of Juche
Long live, long live General Kim Jong Il

Socialist cause he defends
With iron will and courage
He raises national honour
Far and wide throughout the world
He is the champion of justice
Standing for independence
Long live, long live General Kim Jong Il

After we have read this song, we should think about how important The Supreme Commander is to us and what we can do to make The Supreme Commander happy.

He loves us just like he loves his children. This is why we must work hard and report anyone who is lazy or working against The Government.

The economy of this system is simple.

Government decides what to produce.

Government orders workers to work.

Government decides who gets what.

Government deploys armed observers who observe workers and make them work. Workers who dont produce desired results will not get paid at all and might be forced to spend some time in re-education camp.

After the products are produced, government distributes products to those who work, to members of the government and to military and to anyone government thinks is in need.

Since work is mandatory and you must produce good results with your work, nobody is lazy.

Scientists also have to work hard and produce results, or they go to re-education camp.

Most of the resources are devoted to the military and ideological education.

This is good because it defends the government and ensures military superiority, giving the advantage to North Korean government over the governments of other countries.

Most democratic governments only rule for 4 to 8 years.

Meanwhile, Kim Jong Un's government is eternal and will rule under same ideology forever.

Due to the military first policy in which knowledge is gathered and used to advance military and where everyone must work for the military government, the government of North Korea is the most effective government in the world history.

There are no protests in North Korea. No one ever complains about anything except how other countries are bad.

Everyone in North Korea thinks their country is the best in the world. How many other countries can say the same?

This is thanks to central planning economic system designed by The Supreme Commander where He/She controls all education, media, economy and military, and makes everything serve His/Her will.

This unique system of government requires great knowledge about how to control people and make them fully obedient to The Supreme Commander.

Once this is done, the remaining resources are devoted to the military. Strong military ensures that North Korea will not be attacked and that The Government of The Supreme Commander will not be destroyed by foreign invasion.

Since The Supreme Commander is mortal, He/She decides who will become The Supreme Commander after He/She dies. That person gets education and knowledge from The Supreme Commander. This is how the knowledge is inherited and advanced.

There are 4 most important things in this system that make it better than any other system:

1) Mandatory labor

2) Controlled production and distribution

3) Military first policy

4) Ideological education

All 4 of these are controlled by The Supreme Commander.

Thanks to the mandatory labor, everyone has to work and produce good results. Otherwise, they go to re-education camp.
You cant just pretend that you work. If you produce no results, armed observers will escort you to re-education camp where it will be explained to you why you must work and produce good results.

Controlled production and distribution means that no labor will be wasted making an iphone. Instead, all labor will be used to advance military and defend society and The Government of The Supreme Commander.

Military first policy means that all resources are used to create strongest and most obedient military in the world.

Ideological education is there to make people into obedient soldiers.

While other countries waste production power on making expensive smartphones, cars... North Korea uses all its power to create the strongest military.

As history shows: when war comes, the only important thing is strong military capable of destroying the enemy. Strong military is always useful, even in times of peace by preventing unwanted wars and rebellions.

So all scientific and productive resources are to be devoted to the military to ensure the survival and peace and military superiority of The Supreme Commander and His/Her Government that will last eternally due to being superior in ideology and production economy and military.

Lets all think how great The Supreme Commander is, and how He/She loves us and makes us more productive.

This is why it makes logical sense to use this system over democratic tyranny and rule of majority where even stupid people get to vote and majority abuses its power and becomes lazy and redirects production to produce not for the military but for majority.

During The Government of The Supreme Commander Kim Jong Un, North Korea, despite being a very small country, managed to advance its military into a nuclear superpower capable of nuking any area on Earth.

The results speak for themselves.

Once North Korea advances stealth bombers, it will be all over.

US already has great difficulty tracking North Korean missiles, and has admitted that in the case of war, US would be unable to intercept all North Korean nuclear missiles.

Remember that North Korea was never a capitalist country. It was a poor feudal country before General Kim Il Sung transformed it into a country with central planning Government of The Supreme Commander.

North Korea is very small in territory when compared to NATO and USA. However, North Korea has 7 million soldiers and NATO only has 3 million.

The fact that North Korea is able to train and sustain 7 million soldiers proves the superiority of its system over any other.

North Korea with its limited resources and population, managed to completely outproduce South Korea, US and NATO while being under sanctions and being cut off from world resources.

NATO couldnt even destroy North Korea even if NATO used all of its nuclear force. North Korea has underground tunnels resistant to bombing and nuclear strikes.

With 7 million troops and great nuclear artillery, North Korea could completely destroy South Korea and Japan, causing economical breakdown in USA.

USA is already in debt and crisis, while North Korea has no debt.

Remember that North Korea has a population of 26 million while US has population of 340 million and economical support from majority of the world.

North Korean central planning economical system has no match. If North Korea had 340 million population, it would have 80 million soldiers and 10000 ICBMs.

So in a military sense, North Korean system is the most superior in the world.

Morally, they are great. There is very little crime and no porn or deviations from what is useful and natural.

North Korean system is a natural system of government where everything is used to gain power and defend the government.

Humans are evil. They only bow to authority. This is why the best government is an authoritarian government that uses central planning system of economy, military and ideology.

Notice that central planning is not when one man decides about every single product, but when one man decides that all resources are to be used for the military and makes groups of people control the economy in such way and by making armed military observers watch workers to make sure they work properly.

Central planning economic system is such a system in which the goals of The Supreme Commander are realized by society as a whole managed by groups operating on different parts of the territory.

These groups have a mission to make sure Commander's desires are fully realized.

If Commander says:
"Let us increase production to develop economy. Let us develop economy to advance military."

Then:
In order to carry out this mission, groups must make sure there are armed military observers at factories and farms who are making sure that the workers are working properly. If products are not produced enough, military observers are to be sent to re-education camps and in their place come the more suitable observers. Workers who are lazy are to be sent to re-education camp, where it will be explained to them that they must work properly.

Scientists are given missions which they must carry out in time, or they go to re-education camp where it will be explained to them that they must work better.

Sometimes, entire family is sent to re-education camp in order to convince scientists to work harder.

Of course, for those who work hard there are some great rewards, like a brand new 100$ smartphone.

Mandatory work is 8 hours a day, but in most cases people are persuaded to volunteer and work for 14 hours for free.

This system makes country more productive and produces more military equipment and technology, making the country strong and feared by everyone.

There is very little crime. People are too busy working and they have no time to commit crimes.

So morality is upheld and everyone feels safer.

But what about happiness? In North Korea, happiness is mandatory. You are supposed to feel happy when you hear dear Commander talk about how great He is.

People in North Korea say that they are fully satisfied.

Some defectors who were deluded by the west realized it and returned to North Korea. They said that life in South Korean democracy is hell and pain where people are spoiled and only care about money.

North Korean population is growing at a faster rate than US population and South Korean population.

North Korea defeated covid in 90 days. Other countries took 3 years.

As I said, the results speak for themselves.

This is by far the best system of government. Other systems dont come even close.

North Korea is the best because its people are fully devoted to The Supreme Commander and are not lazy or fat or spoiled or stupid like Americans.

This form of government sets priorities in correct order. 

Kim Jong Il said: "One can live without candy, but one cannot live without bullets".

So making bullets is priority.

"The media of the world gave wide publicity to the news that in a computer simulation of the US department of defense, North Korea won and United States lost. They added that leader Kim Jong Il is the most famous of the famous Commanders. Kim Jong Il burns the White House with fires of guerrilas bekindled on Mount Paektu."
Con
#2
Essentially, there are 2 parts to analysing the effectiveness of an economy's 'system':

  1. The aims and how effectively they're met.
  2. The means and how efficient and morally decent they are.
The aims of the North Korean (NK) {also known as Democratic People's Republic of Korea (DPRK)} in terms of its economy are as follows:

The first and foremost is self-reliance.

North Korea’s economic goals have always been linked to the general government policy of self-reliance (juche, or chuch’e). The country shunned foreign investment, although it accepted considerable economic aid from the Soviet Union and its satellite eastern European countries as well as from China. Despite its stated policy of self-reliance, North Korea routinely found it necessary to import such essential commodities as fuels and machinery as well as grain.

Already hypocrisy is apparent even in a reliable source explaining to us this core aim.

In fact NK's inability to remain self-reliant has increased over time to the point it is completely held up on crutches by China, so to speak:

In wake of the COVID-19 pandemic, economic dependency of North Korea on Beijing is set to increase as the country faces an unprecedented economic crisis. The Democratic People’s Republic of Korea is in the midst of a critical phase where the effort to manage the economy while facing crippling sanctions is impeded with the consequences of the pandemic impacting the overall performance of the economy.

With limited access to the information inside the country and despite Pyongyang’s efforts to cover itself from the spread of the pandemic, the impact on the economic activity in the country is foreseeable. The strict measures undertaken by the regime are having side-effects on its already vulnerable economy. After the closure of borders, trade with Beijing came to a halt, resulting in shortage of supplies and leading to a surge in prices. The situation is much worse in the rural areas. Last year, the North Korean leader Kim Jong-un said that the country was struggling to meet its economic objectives. It was a blow to the dual policy of nuclear weapons development and economic growth known as “byungjin line”.

The punishing sanctions
The sanctions have been progressively expanded by the UN Security Council and US government over the years given the nuclear ambitions of the DPRK, aiming to suppress the ability of the economy aiding its nuclear program. Though, over the last few years, the sanctions have had a negative effect on the internal economic activity, crucial to support the basic needs in health and food security. The sanctions have been partly responsible to the vulnerable state of the economy too. The restrictions on the inflow in the country, while restricting its ability to export to generate foreign exchange to import further has impacted the GDP of the country.

As North Korea found itself cornered on the international stage, Beijing was the only reliable partner for Pyongyang both economically and strategically. In terms of international trade, China accounts for North Korea’s largest trade partner. North Korea’s trade dependence on China has increased over the last few years. One of the most important reason why China is North Korea’s leading trade partner is the increase of Chinese imports of North Korean natural resources such as minerals in the last few years, leading up to 300 percent.

No change in economic policy
North Korean leader Kim Jong-Un’s response to the situation is certainly not laudable. Lately, the regime has emphasized more on central planning and rather discouraging the private sector, an important element in country’s quest for a mixed economy. It is not keen on the economic and market reforms that could revive the domestic economic activity and prove instrumental on the road towards improving the situation. In the speeches at the party meeting, Kim stressed on the restoration and reinforcing the system whereby the economy runs under the management of the state. His unwillingness to reform the state- controlled system has exacerbated the economic situation in the country. The state control of the economy is also driven by insecurity in the regime. The rising scarcity of goods in Pyongyang and discontent among the elites has concerned Kim Jong-Un lately. The juche ideology that the leader is trying to implement in wake of the crisis stemming out of sanctions may worsen the economic situation in the country.

Post-pandemic consequences
The consequences of the pandemic on the North Korean economy may further complicate the crisis. The slump in global economic activity would also impact the country’s overseas business interests in China as well as the workers in Russia. Travel restrictions have made it difficult for Pyongyang to send the workers overseas. North Korea’s reluctance to publish the economic data also makes it difficult to understand the impact on the country’s economy. The effect on small and medium sized enterprises (SMEs) in China are indicative that the North Korean SMEs would be facing challenges with labor shortages, supply chain issues etc. But, with Chinese economy recovering well from the slowdown, it is predicted that with the easing of the border controls, trade with China would be normalized. Though, with prolonged restrictions, the negative impact on the economy may expand widely and last long enough to a full blown economic crisis accelerated by the pandemic.

Economic Dependence on China to stay?
North Korea prefers the Chinese system for banking, trade and business with no alternative in sight. Both the countries are willing to expand these exchanges in the near future. Economic independence and diversification in trade relations for Pyongyang may be beneficial in the long run but given the crisis on the peninsula, it seems a distant possibility. Chinese dominance also remains strong given the close connections between the business communities, despite the sanctions. For China, the bordering provinces with North Korea are the poorest in the country therefore trade and economic exchange is crucial for economic activity. Pyongyang understands the massive advantages of maintain robust economic ties with Beijing. If negotiations with the new US administration in terms of the denuclearization of the peninsula and regime stability are successful in the near future, the sustained economic ties with Beijing would prove to be an important catalyst for opening up of the economy for Pyongyang.

The Korea Institute for International Economic Policy predicts that China–North Korean trade may resume in small volumes in the second quarter of 2021, pointing to sterilisation equipment installed at the border city of Sinuiju. North Korea is also part of the COVAX global vaccine distribution initiative. High-ranking North Korean officials, border control officers and frontline trade officials will likely be among the first vaccinated, boding well for a partial reopening of the border, facilitating the import of more essential goods.

More urgently, raw materials imported from China are needed for North Korea’s construction sector. Large tourism facilities at Wonsan and Samjiyeon have suffered ever-increasing delays due to the lack of steel, cement and chemical materials. In March 2021, a North Korean business delegation, headed by the president of the Petrochemicals Trading Company housed under the Ministry of Chemical Industry, travelled to China — apparently in an attempt to acquire chemical materials for key construction projects in Pyongyang and tourist zones. The trip took place even after the country closed its borders and North Korean delegations had almost completely ceased travel abroad.

The Kim regime seems eager to expedite the completion of the Wonsan and Samjiyeon tourist zones to boost foreign currency flows, particularly from Chinese tourists. Chinese President Xi Jinping seems to have promised a steady stream of visitors to North Korea when he met with Kim in June 2019. North Korea expects to attract over 1 million visitors annually once the pandemic is under control, and is banking on Chinese tourists to help pay off national deficits in the coming years.

Reopening of the borders will not signal a return to decentralised market activity in North Korea. The Kim regime has reasserted the state as the primary economic player and benefactor in both the short and long term. Pyongyang may seek increased raw material imports to develop its domestic industries and tourism sector while cutting down on finished Chinese products by strengthening control over border trade. This two-track approach — consolidating control over the domestic market activity and resuming cross-border trade with China — is likely to define North Korea’s economy in the coming years.

Covid wrecked NK to the point that China had to truly 'save it'. NK is far from self-reliant economically and has failed its most vital, core economic aim.

Its other aims would surely be to have high GDP and perhaps have good business activity and entrepreneurial activity occurring often and well.

How does NK fair in those aims?

“How large is North Korea’s per capita GDP?” This is a question that every researcher of North Korea is bound to hear quite frequently while talking to journalists, politicians and lay people. The only honest answer to this question is: “We do not know, and not even Marshal Kim Jong Un knows this.” Such frank responses, though, do not help scholars promote their ideas and their careers, so there have been some attempts at answering this question.

"Two years of border shutdown and typhoons have deepened the North's crisis, but not to the extent that it shook the foundation of its economy," the source said, citing Chinese help.
The BOK said gross domestic product (GDP) in the North contracted 4.5% last year in real terms, the worst since 1997 and reversing a 0.4% growth in 2019, the first expansion in three years.
"Along with the continued intense U.N. sanctions, North Korea's lockdown measures to fight the coronavirus pandemic ... and worsened weather conditions such as heavy rains and typhoons were the main drivers to the contraction," a BOK official told reporters.

This is a country we know barely anything about, what we do know is Covid made it brutally incapable of its self-reliance aim and hurt its GDP too even if that's overall a secret in terms of its precise value.

How about business and entrepreneurship in NK? Actually, this isn't as bad as one may assume. The problem is they have no Internet, for either research or international trade. On top of that, everything they produce and research is owned completely by the government, reducing any self-motivational incentive to try other than to feed the ego and wellbeing of Kim Jong-Un.

See, when it comes to economic freedom (which all businesspeople would highly value) North Korea is practically as bad as it can possibly get.

North Korea has the lowest economic freedom among 177 countries surveyed around the world, a Washington-based think tank said in an annual report on Monday.

The Heritage Foundation released the “2022 Index of Economic Freedom,” which comprehensively estimates a country’s economic freedom by using 12 indicators across four broad pillars comprising rule of law, government size, regulatory efficiency and market openness.

“North Korea’s economic freedom score is 3.0, making its economy the 177th freest in the 2022 Index. North Korea is ranked 39th among 39 countries in the Asia–Pacific region,” the report said.

“Commercial and business activity is severely repressed, and the country has been ranked lowest in the world every year since the inception of the Index in 1995.”

North Korea’s score is far below the world and Asia-Pacific regional averages, which respectively logged 60 and 58.5 this year.

In addition, there was a decline in the country’s economic freedom as the score decreased by 2.2 points from last year’s report.

The countries’ economic freedom was classified into five categories: free, mostly free, moderately free, mostly unfree, and repressed.

North Korea is one of the 32 countries, including China and Iran, which are in the economically “repressed” category, while the world economy remains “moderately free” on average.

But Pyongyang’s economic freedom score is far behind others on the list. Venezuela, which was ranked one spot above North Korea for its economic freedom, earned 24.8 points. There is a 21.8 point gap between Venezuela and North Korea.

Are safeguards against official corruption strong and effective?

Corruption is believed to be endemic at every level of the state and economy, and government officials commonly engage in bribery. There are no independent or impartial anticorruption mechanisms.

Small-scale local markets have become prime targets of corrupt police officers, who solicit bribes from the operators and detain those who cannot pay. Market participants also pay bribes to supervisors at their official workplaces, to avoid discipline or imprisonment for abandoning their state-assigned roles.

^ this is extremely concerning, it means that the economy's way of working within NK directly makes it unpleasant for entrepreneurs, basically holding them hostage by forcing out regular bribes if they are to pass any tests for licenses and audits, which then means those aren't authentic and means they may well have failed the audit and license but bought their way into it anyway.

We already explored some of the means but now let's look more specifically at them:

Do individuals enjoy equality of opportunity and freedom from economic exploitation?
Forced labor is common in prison camps, mass mobilization programs, and state-run contracting arrangements in which North Korean workers are sent abroad. Human trafficking networks, sometimes operating with the assistance of government officials, target North Korean women; those ensnared are subject to sex slavery and forced marriages, often in China. Some women have also turned to prostitution to survive in recent years and are exploited by their employers and the police.

Economic opportunities are also hampered by international sanctions imposed in response to North Korea’s continued nuclear pursuits. Since 2016, sanctions have targeted civilian industries including textiles and seafood. North Korea has also been cut off from the international banking system. While this has not deterred North Korea’s pursuit of nuclear weapons, it has created growing difficulties for those dependent on markets and quasi-private businesses.

North Korean defectors said that a lack of pay for work means economic survival for them and their families depends on their ability to do their own informal business. For this, bribes must be paid to local officials and to the enterprise manager to release a person from his or her daily work requirement for time to start their own business, such as home production, informal selling of goods at local markets, or itinerant trading between provinces or even across the border into China. One female defector told Human Rights Watch, “There were no rations so I presented some money to the company [where she worked] and started a business. Unemployed persons are supposed to go to the forced labor camp…so I constantly paid a certain amount of money to the company while I secretly ran a business…”

“North Korean government officials force people to work for free and don’t give them enough to eat, and then extort them when people try to organize other ways to survive” said Robertson. “This is truly a predatory regime, with an economic system built on exploitation and abuse.”

It seems just about the only moral NK economically has is they oppose child labor/labour and also that they aren't sexist, women can do business and/or work.

That is basically it. It isn't as if this is a nation that sacrificed its morals for great success, they have very few morals economically and still are a very poor economy in terms of even their core aim of self-reliance.

Pro hasn't told us any metric along which NK is strong, nor morally good. The reason is that no truly relevant one can be raised, the economic system of NK is not at all what the world should be mimicking.
Round 2
Pro
#3
Here is a North Korean educational video about US violent politics towards North Korea


Con did not attack the following arguments:

"Since work is mandatory and you must produce good results with your work, nobody is lazy."

"Most of the resources are devoted to the military and ideological education.
This is good because it defends the government and ensures military superiority, giving the advantage to North Korean government over the governments of other countries."

"Most democratic governments only rule for 4 to 8 years.
Meanwhile, Kim Jong Un's government is eternal and will rule under same ideology forever."

"Due to the military first policy in which knowledge is gathered and used to advance military and where everyone must work for the military government, the government of North Korea is the most effective government in the world history."

"There are no protests in North Korea. No one ever complains about anything except how other countries are bad.


Everyone in North Korea thinks their country is the best in the world. How many other countries can say the same?"

"Once this is done, the remaining resources are devoted to the military. Strong military ensures that North Korea will not be attacked and that The Government of The Supreme Commander will not be destroyed by foreign invasion.


Since The Supreme Commander is mortal, He/She decides who will become The Supreme Commander after He/She dies. That person gets education and knowledge from The Supreme Commander. This is how the knowledge is inherited and advanced."

"There are 4 most important things in this system that make it better than any other system:


1) Mandatory labor


2) Controlled production and distribution


3) Military first policy


4) Ideological education"

"Thanks to the mandatory labor, everyone has to work and produce good results. Otherwise, they go to re-education camp.

You cant just pretend that you work. If you produce no results, armed observers will escort you to re-education camp where it will be explained to you why you must work and produce good results."

"Controlled production and distribution means that no labor will be wasted making an iphone. Instead, all labor will be used to advance military and defend society and The Government of The Supreme Commander.


Military first policy means that all resources are used to create strongest and most obedient military in the world.


Ideological education is there to make people into obedient soldiers.


While other countries waste production power on making expensive smartphones, cars... North Korea uses all its power to create the strongest military."

"As history shows: when war comes, the only important thing is strong military capable of destroying the enemy. Strong military is always useful, even in times of peace by preventing unwanted wars and rebellions.


So all scientific and productive resources are to be devoted to the military to ensure the survival and peace and military superiority of The Supreme Commander and His/Her Government that will last eternally due to being superior in ideology and production economy and military.


Lets all think how great The Supreme Commander is, and how He/She loves us and makes us more productive."

"This is why it makes logical sense to use this system over democratic tyranny and rule of majority where even stupid people get to vote and majority abuses its power and becomes lazy and redirects production to produce not for the military but for majority."


"During The Government of The Supreme Commander Kim Jong Un, North Korea, despite being a very small country, managed to advance its military into a nuclear superpower capable of nuking any area on Earth.


The results speak for themselves."

"US already has great difficulty tracking North Korean missiles, and has admitted that in the case of war, US would be unable to intercept all North Korean nuclear missiles."

"Remember that North Korea was never a capitalist country. It was a poor feudal country before General Kim Il Sung transformed it into a country with central planning Government of The Supreme Commander.


North Korea is very small in territory when compared to NATO and USA. However, North Korea has 7 million soldiers and NATO only has 3 million."

"The fact that North Korea is able to train and sustain 7 million soldiers proves the superiority of its system over any other.


North Korea with its limited resources and population, managed to completely outproduce South Korea, US and NATO while being under sanctions and being cut off from world resources.


NATO couldnt even destroy North Korea even if NATO used all of its nuclear force. North Korea has underground tunnels resistant to bombing and nuclear strikes."

"With 7 million troops and great nuclear artillery, North Korea could completely destroy South Korea and Japan, causing economical breakdown in USA.


USA is already in debt and crisis, while North Korea has no debt.


Remember that North Korea has a population of 26 million while US has population of 340 million and economical support from majority of the world.


North Korean central planning economical system has no match. If North Korea had 340 million population, it would have 80 million soldiers and 10000 ICBMs."

"So in a military sense, North Korean system is the most superior in the world.


Morally, they are great. There is very little crime and no porn or deviations from what is useful and natural.


North Korean system is a natural system of government where everything is used to gain power and defend the government.


Humans are evil. They only bow to authority. This is why the best government is an authoritarian government that uses central planning system of economy, military and ideology."

"Mandatory work is 8 hours a day, but in most cases people are persuaded to volunteer and work for 14 hours for free.


This system makes country more productive and produces more military equipment and technology, making the country strong and feared by everyone.


There is very little crime. People are too busy working and they have no time to commit crimes.


So morality is upheld and everyone feels safer."

"But what about happiness? In North Korea, happiness is mandatory. You are supposed to feel happy when you hear dear Commander talk about how great He is.


People in North Korea say that they are fully satisfied.


Some defectors who were deluded by the west realized it and returned to North Korea. They said that life in South Korean democracy is hell and pain where people are spoiled and only care about money."

"North Korean population is growing at a faster rate than US population and South Korean population."

"This form of government sets priorities in correct order. 


Kim Jong Il said: "One can live without candy, but one cannot live without bullets".


So making bullets is priority."


"The media of the world gave wide publicity to the news that in a computer simulation of the US department of defense, North Korea won and United States lost. They added that leader Kim Jong Il is the most famous of the famous Commanders. Kim Jong Il burns the White House with fires of guerrilas bekindled on Mount Paektu."

Kim Jong Il is a champion of global peace, leading the world politics with surreal ability in weapons.

Refutations of Con's viewpoint and arguments:

"Essentially, there are 2 parts to analysing the effectiveness of an economy's 'system':"

Which 2 parts?

"The aims and how effectively they're met."

Con fails to give a proper definition. "The aims" can be anything. Even suicide can be aim. A person who just wants to kill himself and nothing else, would effectively met his aim if he killed himself.
By Con's definition, such person would be 100% efficient.

According to Con's definition: if desired suicide is realized, system is 100% effective.

Obviously, it is not enough to have aims. Aims must be correct. Our main aim should be power, and not suicide. The one with more power outmatches the one with less power.

"The means and how efficient and morally decent they are."

Con did not define what "efficient" is other than meeting aims. He did not say what he means by "morally decent".

Why didnt he explain these things?

How am I supposed to address an argument that doesnt exist?

Con used the argument of power, but didnt explain how is power measured. Which is why his definition failed at the very start.

What is power?

Power is a will that defeats all other wills.
Power is if you have a goal, then the world changes to your goal.
Power is if you want to destroy something, then that something is destroyed.
Power is if you want to protect something, then that something is not destroyed.

But how we measure power is different from definition provided by Con. In Con's definition, if a person with an aim of suicide meets his aim, that person would be most effective person in the world.

That person would still lack a lot of power.

If that person wanted to destroy the South Korea, the South Korea would not be destroyed.

If Kim Jong Un wanted to destroy the South Korea, the South Korea would be destroyed.

So the difference is obvious. Its obvious who has more power.

If two persons wish to destroy each other, the one with better weapons and tactics is much more likely to succeed than the other.

From this, the logical conclusion is that weapons matter and tactics matter.

When applied to groups, then numbers matter.

So it is important for a country to have strongest military possible.

If leader wants to destroy his enemies and if he has obedient and strong enough military, then his enemies will be destroyed.

What have we learned? Power is everything. Morality depends on power. Con did not provide valid definitions.

Eternal leader Kim Jong Il said:

"History has recorded the bitter lessons of several countries which were reduced to ashes by the reckless bombing of the imperialists as they hadn't strengthened their military forces. These are not the events of the distant past, but the stark realities in the current era of modern civilization.
Despite the high-handedness of the imperialists, peace is maintained secured in the DPRK and this victory is absolutely the brilliant fruit of the Songun politics."

Songun is military first policy where priority is given to making military most powerful in the world.

Kim Jong Il said:
“Our Party's Songun-based revolutionary leadership, Songun-based politics, is a revolutionary mode of leadership and socialist mode of politics that gives top priority to military affairs, and defends the country, the revolution and socialism and dynamically pushes ahead with overall socialist construction by dint of the revolutionary mettle and combat capabilities of the People's Army.”

Then Con proceeded to make a claim about the aim of North Korea:

"The first and foremost is self-reliance"

Why is having self-reliance more important than having strong military?

Con did not give us an answer.

Country with strong military outmaches the one that is self-reliant.

If I have a gun and you have no weapons, it doesnt matter if you have self-reliance. If I want, I will take all of your resources you built with your self-reliance and destroy you.

North Korea uses military first policy, not self-reliance first policy.

This means that having strong military is prefered over everything else, including self-reliance.

North Korea will never sacrifice military to ensure self-reliance.

Now that we have proven that military comes first, time to break Con's argument even more.

Con didnt explain which country has self-reliance.

Con didnt explain how North Korea compares to other countries in self-reliance.

If other countries arent self-reliant, then they are not better than North Korea in self reliance.


But this link makes things even more difficult for Con. It says that North Korean imports have decreased significantly over past 10 years. In 2021, they only amounted to 272 million dollars.

This is about 10$ per capita in an entire year.

So the self-reliance is improving significantly.


Compared to that, South Korea imported over 50000 million $ of goods.

This is over 1000$ per capita per year.

This means South Korea is much less self-reliant than North Korea.


United States imported over 300000 million dollars  worth of goods.

So that is about 1000$ per capita.

North Korea is obviously much more self-reliant than other countries, negating Con's claim that self-reliance isn't better in North Korea than in other countries.

Since self-reliance was Con's argument, he was supposed to prove it. He was supposed to say which country is more self-reliant than North Korea. Sadly, Con didnt explain. This makes his argument worthless.

"In fact NK's inability to remain self-reliant has increased over time to the point it is completely held up on crutches by China"

Since North Korean imports have decreased significantly over the past 10 years and since Con did not provide an example of a country that is more self-reliant than North Korea, Con's argument is wishful thinking where he relies on people to believe it because they wish its true.

The fact that he didnt give us any real numbers in his sources further confirms wishful thinking.

If my sources offer claims with numbers and data, while Con's sources offer claims without numbers and data, when numbers are crucial to a claim, it follows that Con's sources are much more likely to be false.

"Covid wrecked NK to the point that China had to truly 'save it'. NK is far from self-reliant economically and has failed its most vital, core economic aim."

Con intentionally uses sources that have no data or numbers to back them up.

My sources had data, and proved that North Korea's total yearly import is only 10$ per capita.
That is 100x lower than any other advanced country.

Numbers from my sources match numbers from great majority of sources available online.

"Its other aims would surely be to have high GDP and perhaps have good business activity and entrepreneurial activity occurring often and well."

This is refuted in round 1, where I quoted dear leader Kim Jong Il:

"One can live without candy, but one cannot live without bullets".

One can live without high GDP, but one cannot live without bullets.

Con obviously didnt even read my round 1, since he raised points in his round 1 that are already refuted in my round 1.

He also didnt refute anything I said in my round 1.

At this point, we can safely conclude that Con is trolling or is under drug influence.

"This is a country we know barely anything about"

Actually, Con here just repeats what the media told him. Media told him that North Korea is a secretive state, and he comes here and repeats what media tells him.

This sheep-like mentality Con displays is further exposed when he was ready to believe anything media tells him:

"what we do know is Covid made it brutally incapable of its self-reliance aim"

How do you know this?

"and hurt its GDP too even if that's overall a secret in terms of its precise value."

Con admits that he doesnt have precise values. So Con's entire argument is based on imprecise values Con believes in for no reason.

If Con has no precise values, how does he meassure efficiency then? How does he compare it to other countries? His argument depends on efficiency and comparison, and he admits that he cant meassure them properly.

If he cant meassure it, what is his argument? An assumption. Thats why he provided us with no numbers.

"How about business and entrepreneurship in NK? Actually, this isn't as bad as one may assume."

Con admits that people unreasonably assume things about North Korea, then he proceeds to assume:

"The problem is they have no Internet, for either research or international trade."

Con assumes this is a problem.


North Korea has over 7 million phones and intranet where all government-approved informations are located.

Hence, they dont need internet for research and buisness. They have intranet for research and buisness.

Why would one think that intranet is superior to internet?


North Korea advanced an ICBM that travels at mach 22 speed to a distance of +15000km.

These characteristics outmatch all US ICBMs.

So yes, it is superior.


US minuteman only has 13000km range? Sad story.

"On top of that, everything they produce and research is owned completely by the government... reducing any self-motivational incentive to try"

This is Con's assumption and not even true.


North Korea, modeled after stratocratic Sparta, uses tax system where production facilities keep a percentage of the product they produced. It is usually 50 % to 70 % that they get to keep as their own.

The more they produce, the more they get to keep.

North Korea rewards workers and scientists who produce more and better.

"See, when it comes to economic freedom (which all businesspeople would highly value) North Korea is practically as bad as it can possibly get."

To translate: North Korea doesnt serve the rich. It serves itself and increases its power by strengthening its military.

Con thinks that North Korea should not focus on military. Con thinks that North Korea should let US invade it like they invaded Libya.

Con didnt understand the line: "One can live without high amount of buisness, but one cannot live without high amount of bullets."

He refuses to understand most simple things. Weak are always oppressed by the powerful. Hence, one must be powerful.

Con endorses weakness, and thinks that others should be like him.

Such a sad story Con is. Could you imagine thinking that something other than power matters?

What a joke.

"Corruption is believed to be endemic"

Is believed? So its a belief? What? Are you promoting a religion here, son?

Nowhere would these "sources" Con provides be valid except on a site filled with sheep.

So my point is proven again. Con has no numbers or data.

Assumption cannot be used to prove an assumption, sadly Con doesnt know this.

Con searches for sites that only make assumptions, and then he copies their text and uses it as a valid source.


North Korea has most powerful ICBMs:

"North Korean leader Kim Jong Un said his country's ultimate goal is to possess the world's most powerful nuclear force, as he promoted dozens of military officers involved in the recent launch of North Korea's largest ballistic missile, state media reported Sunday.

The announcement came after Kim inspected a test of the country's new Hwasong-17 intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM) and pledged to counter U.S. nuclear threats with nuclear weapons on Nov. 18.

Building the nuclear force is for reliably protecting the dignity and sovereignty of the state and the people, and "its ultimate goal is to possess the world's most powerful strategic force, the absolute force unprecedented in the century," Kim said in the order promoting the officers.

He called the Hwasong-17 the "world's strongest strategic weapon" and said it demonstrated North Korea's resolve and ability to eventually build the world's strongest army.

North Korean scientists have made a "wonderful leap forward in the development of the technology of mounting nuclear warheads on ballistic missiles," Kim said, without elaborating.
Posing for photos with the scientists, engineers, military officials and others involved in the test, Kim said he expects them to continue to expand and strengthen the country's nuclear deterrent at an extraordinarily rapid pace.

Those workers issued an oath of allegiance and faith to the ruling party, vowing to defend the "absolute authority" of the party and Kim, and vowing that "our missiles will fly vigorously only in the direction indicated" by him.
They said Kim had "carefully taught us one by one" during the development of the Hwasong-17.

Capable of reaching the U.S. mainland, the missile launch prompted the United States to call for a United Nations Security Council presidential statement to hold North Korea accountable for its missile tests, which are banned by Security Council resolutions.

North Korea's powerful Standing Committee of the Supreme People's Assembly awarded the Hwasong-17 missile the title of "DPRK Hero and Gold Star Medal and Order of National Flag 1st Class," KCNA reported in another statement, using the initials of the country's official name, Democratic People's Republic of Korea.

"(The missile) clearly proved before the world that the DPRK is a full-fledged nuclear power capable of standing against the nuclear supremacy of the U.S. imperialists and fully demonstrated its might as the most powerful ICBM state," KCNA said.
The test fire demonstrated that North Korea will react in kind to "the enemy's nuke and full-frontal confrontation," the report said."


Con about BUISNESS:
"this is extremely concerning, it means that the economy's way of working within NK directly makes it unpleasant for entrepreneurs, basically holding them hostage by forcing out regular bribes if they are to pass any tests for licenses and audits, which then means those aren't authentic and means they may well have failed the audit and license but bought their way into it anyway."

It means that you use an assumption to prove an assumotion.

My position was not about buisness freedom, so when Con talks about buisness freedom he doesnt refute anything I say.

Military is priority over buisness, in the same way power is priority over wealth. Con doesnt understand this, but does Con understand anything? Is there some point Con has? He doesnt understand his own point.

He dared to claim that buisness is priority over military.
So he would take 100$ and buy himself a burger and not a gun. Then someone with a gun would come and kill him and eat the burger.

So, Con has knowledge about life that amounts to that lower than toddlers. Even toddlers prefer military over buisness. I am assuming US government did experiments on Con's brain that left him autistic.

"Do individuals enjoy equality of opportunity and freedom from economic exploitation?"

What? So, this is about individuals? Again, Con fails to grasp the point of economic exploitation.

In non-exploiting society, there is no military. In a society that exploits workers to fund military in best way possible, there will be best military.

This is again Con's failure where he buys a burger while his enemy buys a gun. Then Con gets killed and wonders why he got killed. Are you really that stupid, Con?

"North Korean defectors said"

So if they said it, then its true? You are stupid, Con.
I cant believe that I had to explain to an adult that adults can lie.

"North Korean government officials force people to work for free and don’t give them enough to eat,"

Why does this matter in a world where only power wins? If North Korea didnt have forced labor, it would be invaded by US and lose its power. Do you understand that they would be invaded, or will you keep living in your fairy tale wet dream? Because at this point you are telling us that if someone attacked you with a gun, you would rather have a burger than a gun for yourself? Your logic is all messed up. You are unwilling to make sacrifices for power. Which is why you will bend over for those who do.

"It seems just about the only moral NK economically has is they oppose child labor/labour and also that they aren't sexist, women can do business and/or work."

Woman is the future leader of Korea.

"That is basically it. It isn't as if this is a nation that sacrificed its morals for great success, they have very few morals economically and still are a very poor economy in terms of even their core aim of self-reliance."

Con's stupidity shows itself here. Throughout his entire argument, he thought that buisness and self reliance were most important aims.

Did Con read the description? The description said "military first".
Is Con unable to process these 2 words? He didnt even address them. So he admits to be unable to refute "military first" argument.

"Pro hasn't told us any metric along which NK is strong, nor morally good. The reason is that no truly relevant one can be raised, the economic system of NK is not at all what the world should be mimicking."

Sadly, Con's brain failed. After I explained it clearly in round 1, not only did he not address the "military first" argument, but he didnt even read it. He didnt even read the description.

So, one must ask: is Con insane?

Would Con survive in the wild world, if he thinks its a good idea to trade his gun for a burger?

Military first policy is a perfect policy in which priority is given to military over everything.

North Korea has 70 times more military per capita than the US. North Korea also has more advanced ICBMs.

The speed at which North Korea is advancing is so fast that it outmatched China and US.

If a country as small as North Korea can use this system and gain military superiority, such system is most optimal not just for small countries. It is best system for all. Countries not using this system are outmatched by countries who do use it.

Bush labeled North Korea and Iraq as axis of evil. He invaded Iraq. But not North Korea.

Kim Jong Il said this as a response:

"Bush, you labeled us as evil. Attack us now, Bush, so that we can kill you."

Songun politics was enforced as the best option for the DPRK to achieve the decisive victory in acute confrontation with the imperialists and the reactionaries.

As the imperialists were viciously resorting to the maneuvers to stifle socialism with anti-revolutionary forces, defending the country and nation posed as a vital issue that decides the destiny of socialism and the anti-imperialist military front became the forefront in the socialist struggle.

The Songun politics of the Workers' Party of Korea has strengthened the people's army into the invincible powerful army, thus achieving victory in the anti-imperialist military front and firmly guaranteeing the sovereignty and dignity of the country and socialism.

The situation in the DPRK was severe after the demise of President Kim Il Sung.

The imperialists, clamoring about the "collapse" of socialism in the DPRK and the "contingency", made every possible effort to stifle and isolate the DPRK.

To make things worse, due to natural disasters that continued for years, the Korean people suffered from severe shortage of food and furthermore, the renegades and the rebellious and alien elements from within made attempts to undermine the people's trust in the Party.

There were severe and harsh difficulties and sufferings in this period.

In these difficulties, General Kim Jong Il strengthened the People's Army into the most powerful militant ranks by dint of the invincible Songun politics and led the unprecedented struggle to defend socialism to successive victories, thus achieving the great historic exploits of raising the socialist Korea to the status of the world military power.

The remarkable success achieved in defending socialism under the banner of Songun is that the powerful military forces with nuclear deterrent as the core have been built up.

Today, the DPRK is thoroughly frustrating the vicious maneuvers of the US and its followers to stifle and isolate the country and realizing whatever it is determined to do in accordance with its faith, will and intention. This is entirely thanks to the powerful nuclear deterrent that the President and the General have through their whole life.

Indeed, the Songun politics strengthens the political, military and economic power of the country to the maximum and ensures the building of the political, military and economic power.

It becomes the definite guarantee for the socialist construction.

Today's reality in which the DPRK is demonstrating its dignity as the "homeland of Songun politics" clearly shows that the Songun politics is surely the all-powerful sword that defends the sovereignty and dignity of the country with the invincible military power and guarantees the building of the construction of a socialist country that people have long desired to build.

Songun is the proud tradition of the Korean revolution and the banner of victory and glory.

The more viciously the imperialists maneuver to stifle the DPRK, the more it will hold fast to the Songun politics as the all-powerful sword for victory of the revolution, give fullest play to its might and surely build the thriving socialist country.

This is why North Korean system is the best. It makes people more productive.

There is no reason to give any freedom to citizens other than for military purposes.

This creates the best possible military society that outproduces non-military societies.


Con
#4
My opponent is ranting about the nation as a whole, not the economy. 

crime rates and other things like military are mentioned? This was about the economic soundness.