Instigator / Pro

Mall

1476

rating

336

debates

40.77%

won

Topic

#4416

You are in total contradiction supporting the penal prison system but against all types of slavery.

Status

Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics

Winner

After 1 vote and with 1 point ahead, the winner is...

Best.Korea

Parameters

Publication date: 04.19.2023 09:08AM
Last updated date: 05.26.2023 11:55PM
Type: Standard
Number of rounds: 5
Time for argument: Three days
Max argument characters: 30,000
Voting period: One month
Point system: Winner selection
Voting system: Open

Contender / Con

Best.Korea

1309

rating

270

debates

40.74%

won

Description

Disclaimer : Regardless of the setup for voting win or lose, The aim of this interaction, Is for those that view it, Learn and or take away anything that will amount to any constructive value ultimately. So that counts as anything that'll cause one to reconsider an idea, Understand a subject better, Help build a greater wealth of knowledge getting closer to truth. When either of us has accomplished that with any individual here, That's who the victor of the debate becomes.

Questions on the topic, leave them in the comments.

Round 1

Mall

04.20.2023 04:08PM

Pro

You support the penal prison system but not all forms of slavery.

Why are you in conflict?

The penal prison system is put together to restrict or extinguish freedoms of people imprisoned.

Take note of the prisoners referred to as part of the chain gangs. They're property of the prison system.
The prison warden is their prison master.

They're enslaved to the system. So if you're going to be for imprisonment, you're not against all forms of imprisonment or slavery.

Best.Korea

04.20.2023 05:15PM

Con

Is prison system a slavery, or is it quite the opposite: that which allows freedom and prevents enslavement?

I can be against all forms of slavery and still support a prison system.

If I am against all forms of slavery, then naturally I want to reduce slavery.

Therefore, I will support the prison system because it reduces slavery. Not supporting prison system would increase slavery, not reduce it.

Without prisons, we would have criminals walking around doing much more evil and much more eslavement than the prison system does.

Therefore, not supporting prison would mean supporting slavery.

Now, a question to you. Lets say that I want to change my mind and stop supporting prison system.

What is the alternative to prisons?

Round 2

Mall

04.20.2023 06:27PM

Pro

"Is prison system a slavery, or is it quite the opposite: that which allows freedom and prevents enslavement?"

A prison system is slavery. It limits and or cuts freedom to do anything else you could be free to do.

Anything that does that , you're beholden, enslaved to it. If you are a heavy cigarette smoker, heavy drug user, you're enslaved to it.

Why? If you ever notice a person that can't do anything else, can't start a day doing anything unless they get that cigarette in the morning.

That's what I'm talking about.

"If I am against all forms of slavery, then naturally I want to reduce slavery."

This would mean to increase freedom for individuals to their individual freedoms.

"Therefore, I will support the prison system because it reduces slavery. "

Ok , increases freedom to the prisoners.

"Not supporting prison system would increase slavery, not reduce it."

This is antithetical.

"Without prisons, we would have criminals walking around doing much more evil and much more eslavement than the prison system does."

We would have criminals being FREE walking around but your antithetical position abolishes prison systems.

You say MUCH MORE ENSLAVEMENT than the prison system does. In order for something to have more than the other, that something has to have the same content to measure the comparison.

So that would mean prison systems enslave and you're not against prison systems , I don't think. So therefore you're not against all forms of enslavement.

Otherwise you walk into antithetical dilemma.

Best.Korea

04.20.2023 07:22PM

Con

Being against prisons would increase slavery, as criminals would walk free and enslave the population. They would be killing and robbing and raping everyone, and forcing everyone to do as they please.

So really, being against all slavery means: When you only have two options: more slavery or less slavery, but the option of no slavery doesnt exist, you go for the option of less slavery. In our case, that means supporting prison.

Therefore, you cannot be against all slavery and still not support prison. Then you have a contradiction.

Prison is the best option.

Is there a better option than prison to reduce slavery in our society? What could replace prisons?

Round 3

Mall

04.22.2023 03:47PM

Pro

"Therefore, you cannot be against all slavery and still not support prison. Then you have a contradiction. "

That's correct and that's in agreement with the topic statement.

"Is there a better option than prison to reduce slavery in our society? What could replace prisons?"

Being that this isn't a part of the topic, I can answer those questions outside of this exchange or perhaps make a separate topic concerning specifically that .

That would be a topic of what could we replace prisons with.

This topic wasn't dealing with a reduction of slavery. It was chiefly pointing out the gross generalization people take on the reality of slavery.

Best.Korea

04.22.2023 05:06PM

Con

That's correct and that's in agreement with the topic statement.

No. I was saying that it is a contradiction not to support prisons.

Being that this isn't a part of the topic, I can answer those questions outside of this exchange or perhaps make a separate topic concerning specifically that .
That would be a topic of what could we replace prisons with.

I believe its an important part of this topic too.

This topic wasn't dealing with a reduction of slavery. It was chiefly pointing out the gross generalization people take on the reality of slavery

The topic was dealing with "total contradiction".

As I said, supporting prisons means to have less slavery in society.

Not supporting prisons results in more slavery.

Therefore, I am not in contradiction when I say "all slavery is bad" and then I say "We need prisons to reduce slavery in our society".

If someone is against all slavery, then he seeks to eliminate all slavery. If he doesnt have the option to eliminate all slavery but just the options to eliminate 50% of it or to eliminate none of it, then going for the option to eliminate 50% of slavery is better than eliminating none of it.

The only two options that I have are: 1) Prisons, 2) No prisons.

Option 2) would produce more slavery than option 1).

Therefore, logically I have to go for option 1).

Option 1) is consistent with me being against all slavery, where option 2) is not consistent.

So it is wrong to say that option 1) is a total contradiction to "being against all slavery", when option 1) is the option that is consistent with "being against all slavery".

So unless there is better way than prisons to reduce slavery, what am I supposed to do? Stop supporting prisons? Abolishing prisons would increase slavery, not decrease it.

How can I be against all slavery and still decide to increase slavery by abolishing all prisons?

Isnt the goal to have less slavery?

So what is better than prisons in reducing slavery?

Round 4

Mall

04.24.2023 02:57PM

Pro

"No. I was saying that it is a contradiction not to support prisons."

Yes that agrees with the topic statement.

"As I said, supporting prisons means to have less slavery in society."

That's cool. I'm not arguing about a reduction in slavery.

"Isnt the goal to have less slavery?"

Not for this topic, it isn't.

Look I'm driving this back to the topic with these questions.

Do you support the penal prison system?

Do you agree there is enslavement of prisoners by the penal prison system?

If you respond with anything other than yes, I won't hesitate to quote from what you said in the earlier rounds.

Best.Korea

04.26.2023 03:15PM

Con

I'm not arguing about a reduction in slavery.

Well, you should.

I guess I will have to challenge you on a debate about what can replace a prison system.

Round 5

Mall

04.26.2023 09:22PM

Pro

You didn't respond with a yes to the questions so I'll quote what you said earlier and that'll close this out.

"Therefore, I will support the prison system"

This is what you said . You will support the prison system that is what?

Let's look at what else you said.

"Without prisons, we would have criminals walking around doing much more evil and much more eslavement than the prison system does."

You said " much more" enslavement than the prison system.

So the prison system has to have enslavement in it for something else to have more than it.

The quantity of slavery is not in question nor the discussion.

So you will support the prison system, an enslavement system or a form of slavery.

Then this following quote of a statement you made before all these others contradicts.

"I can be against all forms of slavery and still support a prison system."

So by your own omission, you don't agree with what you said but validated my position and the topic statement.

Thank you for participating.

Best.Korea

04.26.2023 09:47PM

Con

#10

Cool

John00

05.26.2023 11:55PM

The difference between a prisoner and captive is the elements of work and property ownerships

John00

05.26.2023 10:20PM

Surly a definition of enslavement would have brought a swift end to this debate;

- Slave: a person who is forced to work for and obey another and is considered to be their property; an enslaved person.

- Contradiction: a combination of statements, ideas, or features which are opposed to one another.

A Prisoner meets the requirement to be defined as a slave, they are imprisoned by 'force' made to 'work' and 'considered property' of the state until their release. it is a contradiction to be Anti 'All' Forms of slavery and at the same time pro imprisonment.

Slainte

05.03.2023 12:35AM

Criterion

Pro

Tie

Con

Points

Winner

1 point(s)

Reason:

I accept Con's argument that the abolish of slavery is impossible, based on the way that Pro had tried to define slavery and enslavement. I accept crime can be a type of enslavement.

While the debate was not structured well, I will give extra props to Con for a very clever and compelling argument.