Instigator / Pro
0
1510
rating
63
debates
53.97%
won
Topic
#4638
Eazy Mac and Golden BSP VS a rap duo/group of your choice
Status
Finished
The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.
Winner & statistics
After 1 vote and with 7 points ahead, the winner is...
RationalMadman
Parameters
- Publication date
- Last updated date
- Type
- Rated
- Number of rounds
- 3
- Time for argument
- Three days
- Max argument characters
- 10,000
- Voting period
- Two weeks
- Point system
- Multiple criterions
- Voting system
- Open
- Minimal rating
- None
Contender / Con
7
1709
rating
565
debates
68.23%
won
Description
The only rule is you must use work the artists did together.
Round 1
Eazy Mac and Golden BSP both have unique and creative delivery and have great chemistry together. Their music is best enjoyed while under the influence of multiple drugs. Their unorthodox style make them more fun to listen to than many rappers who are arguably better at "rippity rapping" or whatever you want to call it.
Pro didn't realise that if I pick a group, I can then take even solo work and sife-group work from each member because the description only says I had to include members.
That said, I am going to correct the restriction and stick to two rappers who are not recognised as a duo but have so much crossover in their venn diagram of rap tracks and circles:
Vinnie Paz and Apathy
They are pioneers of the grimiest, nastiest rap you keep your grandparents and grandchildren away from equally.
Nasty rap, horrorcore shit, himophobic slurs in their earlier work straight up detailed death threats, toxic masculinity to high heaven down to the depths of hell.
They are everything wrong with rap embodied, embracing it, spitting with the slickest flow and most wince-inducing punchlines you feel the sting of hours after hearing.
They are a duo, Eminem, K-Rino, Black Thought, Tech N9ne and many other gods of rap as well as goddesses like Sa-Roc will intentionally avoid beefing with. They may be 2 caucasians but they have real gangster ties, come from a ghetto each, Vinnie from downtown Philly since a child (actually born in Sicily itself) and Apathy from Conneticut.
Their styles crossed state lines, they early on realised that both were alphas in their respective domains and wanted to avoid beef. So, Apathy with his guys in Apathy Dmeigodz and Vinnie with his AOTP boys (one of the most loyal ended up being Apathy himself) teamed up, had group meets.
The entire underground scene in Philly and Cutty began to cheer for and embrace the other group, due to these 2 and their chemistry. Nobody calls them a duo but they were the gel, the masterminds holding together what could have otherwise been a eormanently battling pair of factions in rap, torn down the middle.
They bonded over conspiracy theories and being Libertarians who hate the government (Vinnie originally a more socialist type but now ambiguous, Apathy a dedicated anarchist from the start who probably leans right).
Easily out of anybody's top 20 underground rap tracks, these guys would be in 12 of them, unless you are easily offended.
They also were brilliant at using producers (Paz more so) that delved into ignoring hip hop norms and breaking genre boundaries.
Some of their earliest work will not sound like Vinnie Paz at all as he had not broken his voice or got the grit to his voice yet. I assure you, it is him and you can hear that even early on they had this insane chemistry you couldn't fuck with.
I assume I can show tracks with both that include others on top.
Fucking love this shit god yes.
Honkey Kong
When You Need Me (it doesn't say Paz is in it on the YT but he absolutely is, third rapper). Planetary is a fantastic rapper. All three are AOTP legends.
(In case you are confused at a reference Apathy makes in the above track, Paz invited Apathy to do tracks with him on Jodeind Tricks but that was just a duo mainly with Paz and Jus Allah and a producer named Stoupe). AOTP is where their real fire chemistry camd through, imo.
Now, listen to them later on, when they have properly formed a chemistry in rap and gone fully into the horrorcore wild shit:
Sumerians (lyrically, not melodically, one of the best AOTP tracks of all time).
Round 2
Nasty rap, horrorcore shit, himophobic slurs in their earlier work straight up detailed death threats, toxic masculinity to high heaven down to the depths of hell.
This is entertaining to some but highly offensive to others. While Eazy Mac and Golden BSP aren't exactly clean their music is more innocent and accessible. Vinnie Paz and Apathy are described here as being scumbags whereas Mac and Goldie are just an entertaining and hedonistic duo for the most part. Whats more though, Eazy and Golden have lyrics and songs that appeal to more hardcore rap fans, its just that they focus more on being entertaining and unique than being hyper-lyrical and hardcore.
I admit that Honkey Kong was a very good choice. It exemplifies the rhyme and flow and entertainingness Apathy is capable of while avoiding the over the top griminess in most of their music. I bet you can't use a single other track that comes close to it in that regard.
Con is using older work to avoid the blender-like qualities of Vinnie Paz that Con refers to as "grit". Apathy's delivery/voice is sort of plain compared to Golden and Eazy who both stand out more in terms of delivery.
This last song is about benzo addiction. I doubt Con's hyper toxic masculinity homophobic murder rappers are in touch with their feelings enough to have made a song on this side of the rap spectrum. The music and video are symbolic. The blurry/warped imagery of the scenery in the background represents the effects of benzos and the way the verse repeats represents the memory loss associated with heavy benzo use which reinforces the deja vu that comes with returning to the same negative habits. The broken heart concept represents feeling let down by the drug as even though they are "in love" with it, it has done more harm than good.
Eazy Mac & Golden BSP - Broken Heart Emoji (Official Video) - YouTube
Pro is trying to bait me into violating the description's rule by stating this:
I doubt Con's hyper toxic masculinity homophobic murder rappers are in touch with their feelings enough to have made a song on this side of the rap spectrum.
Paz has this side to his work but that side is largely away from the stuff he's done with Apathy. Furthermore, this line from Pro highlights a fundamental issue with Pro's entire case:
Nothing defines greatness so far in the debate. Nothing defines better.
Pro even sticks to 'rap' because Pro is fully aware that if we go into Hip-Hop itself, Golden BSP is a shithow joke of a sing-song mumble rapper and Eazy Mac (EM) is perhaps good but only slightly above average.
Paz and Apathy are gods both as rappers and influencers of a lot of HipHop. They never had the fame of Eminem or Jay-Z, true. They are not some new era Pac and Biggie but they are a duo that has pioneered a lot of underground rap and are much truer to the roots of Hiphop and rapping, than Eazy Mac and BSP.
I don't need to show you Apathy's ode to his dead father or Pac's emotional rapping or conscious rapping to prove they are better. As a duo, they specialised in horrorcore, battle-rap vibe stuff. Pure unfiltered aggressive rapping with slick flow and top tier lyricism. They led groups, united inside AOTP and separately with Paz leading JMT, AOTP and Heavy Metal Kings (a duo with Ill Bill) and Apathy primarily leading his group 'Demigodz' where he and Celph Titled are the 2 core members.
If you 'fact check me' Apathy didn't invent Demigodz but they dies out in 1997 and in 2000 he reformed them as the new leader with Apathy being the reason the Demigodz didn't die as he was an opener for Rakim and such at shows and Celph was pretty loyal too.
While Pro says you need to be on drugs to enjoy EM and BSP duo at their best, I say you can be not only sober but pissed off and unhappy and AOTP music will hit you in the feels. Yes, it's toxic, yes it's filled with hate and anger but much like 'metal' this form of rap they specialise in is euphoric for the unhappy.
It's not like you listen to AOTP and think 'oh let me be a gangster' ever. They don't sugarcoat the 'horror' of that life, it's part of why I appreciate what they do. They come out pure, unfiltered and show you the inhuman demonic aspects of being gangster, it's a different angle from a lot of battle rap. There is no way if you are a genuinely sane and tame citizen that you listen to AOTP music and want to become a ruthless gangster. Instead, you go 'wow they are nasty and that's a horrible life but fuck they rap sooooo good'. They actually have probably deterred many from going down the gangster route because they are so real about how a gangster thinks and feels.
It's battle rap, horrorcore rap... Hiphop itself at is purest, grimiest and lyrically peak performing level.
IDK what Pro meant about me going for Paz's earlier work. Paz has been around for a long, long time now as has Apathy. Their earlier work is 2000s stuff, even 90s. I actually think Paz in particular spat more annoying when he was higher pitched and less slick with the flow, I actually gave you later Paz in Round 1.
I want you to just sit back, relax and appreciate how incredible the rhyme schemes, wordplay and anunciation is from these rappers. Then listen to BSP whining in sing-song heee haww ding dong delivery and EM coming like hurrrdeeee hawww IDGAF yeah man chil chill puff puff passs lyrical skillz bruh.
Time to show you real rap at its peak:
FEEL THE PASSION, LET IT FLOW THROUGH YOU, PLAY HIGH VOLUME, WAKE YOUR GRANDMA UP (even from the afterlife if that's the case, RIP)!
Notice the flawless delivery, the way you can make out the words. The way even the few moments you can't it slides so seamlessly over the beat. The way you shudder, feeling both agony and cathartic sadness and rage and yet happy and peaceful all at once.
It's all an art. It's a fucking masterpiece.
Earlier track between them:
ALSO NOTICE HOW THEY BEGIN IN LATER WORKS TO TOTALLY BREAK OUT OF THE HIPHOP NORMS MELODICALLY, MUCH LOVE TO STOUPE MUCH LOVE TO ALL THE PRODUCERS INVOLVED!
The Game
Terrorstorm
youtube (timestamped link to skip intro)
Battle Cry
Never lazy, always encouraging high quality rhyme schemes, delivery and flow. Always.
Apathy and Vinnie were so indisputably skilled that often they'd actually not do too much together on AOTP because they knew each would hardcarry the other artists in tracks (but they still did have a lot of synergy when performing).
I am only showing you the masterpieces they did together.
If I had chosen AOTP instead of the duo, this debate would have been too easy for me.
Agony Fires
Now, for several from the same album (the one with Sumerians from Round 1). This album you really realise what Ap and Paz can do when together on majority of tracks in an album. It is PURE FIRE
In Death Reborn (album) (they aren't together in every track but this album was their brainchild and they are together here more than usual)
My personal fave? As fantastic as Sumerians was lyrically, it lacked in that WOOF I'M A DOG ABOUT TO BITE YOU vibe.
ONE OF MY FAVE RAPS EVER, it's from the album
Digital War
Paz and Apathy for life. Full respect.
Understand that I intentionally handicapped myself by not allowing me to use all AOTP stuff. There's so much fire there, so much. Apathy and Vinnie are only together in the same track sometimes as both were known to be monsters and hardcarry tracks with other artists on it but Listen to this:
Luxor Temple
Now for one of the quintessential ones. JMT, AOTP whatever you call it, this was a fusion, a unity between all the artists involved:
My man Apathy opens it <3
Now for something less usual, a slightly softer tracks from them (still rugged af):
Round 3
This is a music battle and we must let the music speak. Con has a lot of nice words justifying why he has his opinion but music is something you feel as you listen to it, not just listen to for the words or read words about why the words in the music supposedly make the music and the vibe behind it better. Apathy and Vinnie Paz are people you listen to in order to feel gangsta as a 14 year old sitting in your mom's basement and Golden BSP and Eazy are people you listen to in order to be amused and feel a more genuine but animated vibe. Apathy and Paz have never shot anyone but Golden BSP and Eazy mac do drugs and fuck bitches. You can either listen to old school beats banging your ear holes while Vinnie Paz growls at you about how gangsta he is or listen to the music of the future, choice is yours.
90% of what Con posted isn't even Paz or Apathy
well you had to use words to say that but sure... let's let the music talk.
Yeah you won anyways so you don't have anything to complain about. Aren't you glad I picked you as the winner? Sources would be pretty much tied. Arguments go to you.
Thanks for the vote anyway.
It was a debate, so the categories were literally:
Better arguments
Better sources
Better legibility
Better conduct
That being said, in the final Round, Pro shot himself in the foot by saying it should only be down to the music. I just know if it had been the other way around, I'd have been pretty pissed.
I feel you did better in all criterias. Plus I don't see any rules for point system for the voting in description or anything
You are supposed to vote on it as an actual debate not all 7 to winner. It was a debate.
Reminder
Memories like trauma or a party?
Please remind me in like 12 hours.
Drinking to drown out fireworks and memories.
Treat this as a debate (not a troll debate) and please vote.