Instigator / Pro

Mharman

1421

rating

debates

43.94%

won

Topic

#476

Users Should be Able to Delete Their votes as long the voting period has not expired

Status

Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics

Better arguments

Better sources

Better legibility

Better conduct

After 4 votes and with 18 points ahead, the winner is...

RationalMadman

Tags

Miscellaneous

Parameters

Publication date: 12.28.2018 04:43PM
Last updated date: 01.17.2019 08:01AM
Type: Standard
Number of rounds: 3
Time for argument: Three days
Max argument characters: 30,000
Voting period: One week
Point system: Multiple criterions
Voting system: Open

Contender / Con

RationalMadman

1702

rating

573

debates

67.8%

won

Description

Round 1: opening arguments
Round 2: rebuttals
Round 3: rebuttals of your opponent’s rebuttals

Round 1

Mharman

12.31.2018 04:58PM

Pro

Forfeited

RationalMadman

01.03.2019 12:08PM

Con

The Editing Kritik

The deletion is suboptimal and should be removed entirely from the website or at least be as temporary an option as it is. Why be able to bury evidence? Why not let the person have logged edits where mods can always see previous versions of the vote and such so that anything abusive remains subject to moderation and scrutiny quality-wise so as to help the user vote better either by advice, reward and/or punishment?

The Deletion-is-permanent Dilemma

Deletion is a problem. Deleting things on this website as it is and also as the word is supposed to mean, completely wipes it from the server. This is a moderation loophole where the solution that's easiest (the path of least resistance) is to not let people delete at all or at the very least keep it limited so people are held responsible when culpable for the abusive, neglectful or lazy Reasons For the Decision (RFD) that they post with their votes?

Round 2

Mharman

01.06.2019 12:08PM

Pro

Forfeited

RationalMadman

01.07.2019 01:46AM

Con

I predicted and still predict a last-minute counter that 'but deleting should be available and instead altered so that Mods can see the previous version'.

Okay, this has 2 counter-angles:

Angle 1) The mods are self-professed laissez-faire meaning that they only tend to react to things if others than themselves report it, by removing it from view and not even marking that it's been edited, it will reduce the chance of people getting caught (so I am then altering my 'editing' to become that even normal users can see previous versions of what's edited, which truly holds the user to what they post no matter what they alter later on and increases likelihood of toxic or otherwise CoC violating posts to be dealt with).

Angle 2) The voter may not inherently be CoC-violating but instead be poor at voting. They may want or need encouragement and suggestions how to improve but be so insecure that they keep deleting the vote over and over out of lack of assurance. It's better to 'trap them' and then deal with their reasons for voting as are/were in a way that they explicitly will learn how to improve.

Round 3

Mharman

01.09.2019 05:18PM

Pro

I concede. I wish to debate this again in the future.

RationalMadman

01.10.2019 08:01AM

Con

I refuse to lose, or to abuse the snooze-infested cruise-paced too late to the debate? Your shoes are not enough for mercy you must profusely bruise your depressed soul at my amusement, you're bruised and you're confused... For if I misuse my time in real life and make an excuse, do you think other users here would have honour or would the boos and the tomato-throwing cruel merciless groupies of you would say 'RM you gotta take your loss like a boss, that's what real men do' so tell me now, you think I truly owe a tie to you? I'm sorry but I'm the top of the food-chain in this cesspool.

Mharman

01.09.2019 05:19PM

-->

@RationalMadman

Then how about we do this debate again some time.

RationalMadman

01.07.2019 11:40PM

-->

@Mharman

That aside, tying against you (given our elo difference) will cost me (will reduce) and I also will gain less than I lost vs you in the electronic music battle.

I have lots to lose and lots to make up for here, I put effort in and even prepared for your return making your rebuttals for you and shutting them down. I earned this win and have zero motive to have mercy here and cost myself rating.

Mharman

01.07.2019 11:12PM

-->

@RationalMadman

First off, I had no idea who they were going to vote for once I tagged them. In fact, some of the people I tagged voted for you. I even specifically told them not to be biased. I don't see how that's dirty play.

RationalMadman

01.07.2019 01:51PM

You have lost, checkmate and there's no way to counterargue my flawless arguments.

You played dirty as fuck in the people you tagged during my beef and banning on the electronic music first debate. I am not gonna sit here and hand you a win after putting the effort of thinking through all arguements and counterarguments of this.

Mharman

01.07.2019 01:46PM

-->

@RationalMadman

You typed your arguments while I was stuck, unable to access the site.

RationalMadman

01.07.2019 01:43PM

-->

@Mharman

No. I won it.

Mharman

01.07.2019 01:32PM

-->

@RationalMadman

Can we tie this?

My wifi was down for a few days.

Mharman

12.31.2018 07:27PM

-->

@RationalMadman

tag

Mharman

12.31.2018 07:27PM

Fuuuuuuuudge.

Here's my argument: It would allow users to change their votes if they changed their minds about who won later.

Analgesic.Spectre

01.12.2019 10:29AM

Criterion

Pro

Tie

Con

Points

Better arguments

3 point(s)

Better sources

2 point(s)

Better legibility

1 point(s)

Better conduct

1 point(s)

Reason:

Pro gracefully concedes, so arguments to Con. Con's conduct is the final round is abrasive, so conduct to Pro.

Alec

01.11.2019 02:16AM

Criterion

Pro

Tie

Con

Points

Better arguments

3 point(s)

Better sources

2 point(s)

Better legibility

1 point(s)

Better conduct

1 point(s)

Reason:

Arguments for Pro's concession and forfeits.

Conduct for RM's insults in the final round.

David

01.10.2019 04:28PM

Criterion

Pro

Tie

Con

Points

Better arguments

3 point(s)

Better sources

2 point(s)

Better legibility

1 point(s)

Better conduct

1 point(s)

Reason:

Forfeit and concession

Ramshutu

01.10.2019 11:12AM

Criterion

Pro

Tie

Con

Points

Better arguments

3 point(s)

Better sources

2 point(s)

Better legibility

1 point(s)

Better conduct

1 point(s)

Reason:

Full forfeit + concession