Christianity vs Atheism
The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.
After 1 vote and with 5 points ahead, the winner is...
- Publication date
- Last updated date
- Type
- Rated
- Number of rounds
- 3
- Time for argument
- One week
- Max argument characters
- 10,000
- Voting period
- One month
- Point system
- Multiple criterions
- Voting system
- Open
- Minimal rating
- None
I take the position of Christianity. Con takes the position of atheism.
the Being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness who is worshipped (as in Judaism, Christianity, Islam, and Hinduism) as creator and ruler of the universe. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/god#:~:text=the%20Being%20perfect%20in%20power%2C%20wisdom%2C%20and%20goodness%20who%20is%20worshipped%20(as%20in%20Judaism%2C%20Christianity%2C%20Islam%2C%20and%20Hinduism)%20as%20creator%20and%20ruler%20of%20the%20universe
- Power
- Wisdom
- Goodness
"For by[a] him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him." Colossians 1:16 ESV - For by him all things were created, in - Bible Gateway
"This is basically how science would disprove the existence of any alleged entity. If God existed, there should be concrete evidence of His existence—not faith, but tangible, measurable, consistent evidence that can be predicted and tested using the scientific method. If we fail to find that evidence, then God cannot exist as defined." https://www.learnreligions.com/science-allows-belief-god-does-not-exist-248234#:~:text=This%20is%20basically,exist%20as%20defined.
"God is always wise, it is an integral part of His unchanging nature. And His wisdom is far greater than we could ever comprehend. It is unsearchable! Because He is perfect in wisdom, his ways and his decisions are superior (perfect!) and to be trusted." The Wisdom of God - Understanding the Bible
"God warns him not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, for if one were to eat from it, they would surely die." Adam And Eve In The Bible – The Complete Story Of The First Humans | Mythology Explained
“No one is good, except God alone” (Luke 18:19 NIV; see also Psalm 106:1; Psalm 34:8). God Is the Moral Standard (harvest.org)
"The Lord your God will cut off before you the nations you are about to invade and dispossess. But when you have driven them out and settled in their land, 30 and after they have been destroyed before you, be careful not to be ensnared by inquiring about their gods, saying, “How do these nations serve their gods? We will do the same.” 31 You must not worship the Lord your God in their way, because in worshiping their gods, they do all kinds of detestable things the Lord hates. They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods." Deuteronomy 12:29–31 NASB95 - “When the LORD… | Biblia
Ordinary things dont appear out of nothing today, and they never have. There is no proof of that ever happening, and there is no logical explanation on how "nothing" causes something. What caused "nothing" to become "something"? "Nothing" cannot cause a beginning of something. Cause must be "something". If "nothing" could cause something, then we would see something coming from nothing today.
An existence had to have a beginning. Can things exist for no reason? No. However, every reason is also "a thing". Therefore, every reason must have a reason for its existence. That brings us to conclusion that endless number of reasons had to happen to reach where we are today. However, "endless path" doesnt have an end. Therefore, in order to reach the point of today, we had to reach the end of this "endless path". We had to cross an endless path and reach its end - a logical impossibility.
As we have already explained, endless path is impossible to cross. Therefore, our path had to have a beginning or we would never reach where we are today.
We dont have any clues that God doesnt exist. However, we have many clues that he does indeed exist. Great number of people believing in God, feeling and seeing God's presence in their lives and seeing God - these are all clues. God being the most logical explanation for beginning of everything is a clue of God's existence.
10. The problem of logic proves GodHuman logic can only be one of these 3:1) Circular2) Based on unquestionable values3) Based on infinite reasons1) is a logical fallacy of circular reasoning2) is based on no reason3) is based on endless reasons and impossible to prove or demonstrate.Therefore, all human logic is flawed. However, when accepting this human logic, you end up proving God.1) God exists because God created himself.2) God's existence is unquestionable.3) God exists for infinite number of reasons: God1, God2, God3...
11. The problem of science proves GodAny explanation for the existence of the world given by science does not disprove God, since God can do anything, even lead scientists to wrong conclusions.For example, scientists have no proof on how old is the universe. They can merely guess based on its assumed movement in the past. However, God can easily start movement at any point and position and make it seem like movement existed before the given position when in fact, it hasnt. God can also speed up movement, then slow it down. Therefore, guessing the age of the universe by its current movement speed and current position is incorrect, since we dont know the starting position or speed. Science doesnt have a way of meassuring age of the Earth when it doesnt know the starting point of Earth.
13. Christian perfect moral law proves Christian GodChristian moral law is perfect. It is complete, simple and easy to learn moral law to the point where it only could have been created by God.Moral law of Christianity is made up of the entire Bible, but it is wonderfully summed up in very short version which is made of "8 Commandments + Charity + Prayer" in The New Testament.Christian moral law is easy for anyone to learn, even for a 5 year old child. Everyone accepting Christian moral law, even if only accepting some parts of it, benefits from that.Christian morality is based upon life, on protecting the life and increasing prayer. It is really perfect for any society, because with protection of life, society prospers the most.The quality of a moral law is not just in how good it is in theory, but if it would be accepted by people in practice.Christian morality is the most accepted morality in the world. Even young kids easily learn 10 commandments, prayer, charity, forgiveness and love.The law is simple, effective and never-changing. It is nonsense to say that people 2000 years ago were smarter than people today. People today have much more education. We see that people today have many problems when trying to create laws. They struggle a lot. Some laws have multiple pages. Many have to be changed all the time.Christian law is so perfect that it never had to be changed. It is so simple that a 5 year old can learn it. It is perfect moral law. No person was ever able to come up with better moral law.Christians are famous for their charities, for their opposition to abortions, for valuing marriage and family unit.If there is a good reason to accept the existence of God, then God should be accepted. Accepting the existence of God increases morality. Increasing morality is a good reason to accept the existence of God. Therefore, God should be accepted.
14. The problem of evil in atheismAtheism cannot explain why something is evil. However, atheists have one more problem. In Christianity, the fear of God's punishment makes people behave better. They think God is always watching.People behave better when they think that someone is watching.In atheism, nobody watches and there is no punishment. So people who would be prevented from doing crime only by the idea of God, are not prevented by anything in atheist society.
19. Pascal's wager proves that atheism is less reasonableIf Christians are right, most atheists go to hell. If atheists are right, both Christians and atheists will simply stop existing after they die.There are only these 3 options:1. Christians end up better than atheists in the afterlife.2. Christians end up the same as atheists in the afterlife.3. Christians end up worse than atheists in the afterlife.
20. Atheism cannot be provenAs pointed before, atheism cannot be proven. However, Christianity can be proven to be more likely than atheism, which we see that it is since we have many clues of Christian God existing. If we go by proof, Christian God has the largest number of witnesses for his presence. Atheism cannot even have a single witness, since no one can disprove God by not seeing or not feeling him, as saying "i do not see you" does not lead to conclusion "you dont exist". However, "I see God", "I feel God's presence in my life" does lead to conclusion of God most likely existing.
As proven multiple times, atheists use different standard for proving God and for proving other things. They use special pleading. Hence, their standards are inconsistent. As explained, most people have observed God and his presence in their lives. So if observable=reasonable, then God=reasonable. Plus, since you cannot observe that God doesnt exist, it is unreasonable to have a lack of belief in God, especially with most people observing God's influence in their lives.
Proof is by definition something that makes every other option false. Therefore, as long as the option "God could have done it" remains possible, there is no proof. Therefore, you cannot believe in anything with certainty.Reasonable means it requires a reason.
All people are evil.Good God would create evil people to punish them. If God didnt create evil people, evil people wouldnt get punished. There would be no justice. God is necessary to punish evil.
When given these two options:1. Dont create evil and therefore, dont punish evil2. Create evil and punish evilWe see that in option 1, evil doesnt get punished. Good by definition includes punishing evil. Therefore, creating evil to punish it is the proper way to be all good
Bible considers all humans evil. Evil people deserve punishment. We cant say that evil should go unpunished. We all agree that evil person needs to be punished even if its not his fault for being evil. Most people are evil due to abusive environment. However, no one will abolish prisons if society makes person evil. Evil person still goes to prison. Same works with God.
Some babies masturbate in the womb. Babies are atheists. So not so innocent anymore. Babies would grow to be evil people, so that's just preemptive punishment. You don't get heaven just because you didn't get a chance to do more crime. As I said, all people are psychopaths who kill and torture each other. They break the speed limit. They pollute nature. They hurt each other. They are liars, abortionists. They insult others. They beat others. These people deserve nothing but hell. Thats where they will go.
- The Christian God fails to meet the standards of the definition of a true God as he is not perfect in power, Wisdom, or goodness. The Bible details his issues in these areas.
- Christianity is morally and logically inferior to Atheism because Christianity has no qualms with geocoding other people if their God says so. Atheism on the other hand does not condemn anyone nor does it dictate one's own morality and treats all viewpoints as equal so long as they lack the belief in a God.
- God is a sinner since he violates his own rules of sin by indulging in wrathful actions such as ordering an entire people for committing actions he supposedly hates.
- Pro has listed no sources for their arguments, addressed no points made by me as Con, and false statements. Since Pro can produce no evidence or refute Con's than he has already lost the debate.
- God is not proven in science since there needs to be concreate proof that he exists. We do not have this, instead Christians. have faith. Which does not prove anything in both the practical world we live in nor in science.
Pro provided no sources to any claims at all, just loosely quoting the bible. Pro also refused to rebut any arguments put forward by Con, instead deciding to Gish Gallop into more unsourced opinions. They also tended to misrepresent atheism in their arguments, like with the problem of existence as atheism is not universally agreed upon by atheists. Then as the debate went on the arguments from Pro became weaker and weirder, like Pascal Wager which is pretty agreed upon by many theologians and philosophers to be outdated and far too simple in its possibilities and when Pro called unborn and recently born children evil and deserving of punishment, with an extremely weak and insufficient explanation, which weakened Christianity’s case and would’ve been better to not mention the Round 3 arguments.
Con actually provided sources, so takes that point. Con also rebutted Pros claims, and Pro made no quarrels with any of these rebuttals so I can only assume they either ignored them or conceded. Whilst Cons rebuttals were not always as strong, considering some weak points, as possible, such as the pascal wager rebuttal which only bounced back half of what was necessary. But Con actually attempted rebuttal, often with evidence to back it up and did a decent job at explaining the atheist position, when Con misrepresented it.
For these reasons Con takes better argument, for actually debating with rebuttals to a decent standard, whilst Pro didn’t rebut or really engage in a debate, instead choosing to just go on a rant about whatever they could think of, no matter the arguments absurdity.
Con provided sources to their argument, Pro didn’t only relying on quotes, which at most had the book from the bible but often were completely unsourced.
Conduct and legibility were fine from both sides so that’s equal.
The arguments are all submitted. Feel free to vote.
The arguments are all submitted. Feel free to vote.
Better, more reasonable, more moral, more believable.
Is this a debate on which is better? Or which is more rational and believable? Or which is more moral? It doesn’t give much of a description
Is there some other position that you want to take?
Christianity vs ???
Or do you want a specific definition of atheism?
" Con takes the position of atheism."
But what if con doesn't believe in atheism?
Would that make con a bad atheist, or a skeptical atheist?
Is a skeptical atheist someone who seeks proof of the non existence of a deity,and then doesn't accept the proof?