Instigator / Pro

Mall

1476

rating

336

debates

40.77%

won

Topic

#4958

The validity of transgenderism you can have with trans racialism.

Status

Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics

Better arguments

Better sources

Better legibility

Better conduct

After not so many votes...

It's a tie!

Tags

lgbtq

Parameters

Publication date: 09.25.2023 03:17PM
Last updated date: 11.08.2023 02:31PM
Type: Rated
Number of rounds: 5
Time for argument: Two days
Max argument characters: 30,000
Voting period: One month
Point system: Multiple criterions
Voting system: Open
Minimal rating: None

Contender / Con

Best.Korea

1309

rating

270

debates

40.74%

won

Description

Disclaimer : Regardless of the setup for voting win or lose, The aim of this interaction, Is for those that view it, Learn and or take away anything that will amount to any constructive value ultimately. So that counts as anything that'll cause one to reconsider an idea, Understand a subject better, Help build a greater wealth of knowledge getting closer to truth. When either of us has accomplished that with any individual here, That's who the victor of the debate becomes.

You can identify with what you do. Gender, race, you can have one with the other.

Both are sound and work the same right.

If you don't think so, accept the challenge.

Questions on the topic, drop a comment

Round 1

Mall

09.30.2023 01:02PM

Pro

Thank you .

Greetings to you , greetings to all readers.

Transgenderism is a system of identities concerning gender to that to each person elect to identify as any of the two genders regardless of biological makeup.

Trans racialism is a system of identities concerning "race" to that to each person elect to identify as any of the existing racial classifications regardless of biological makeup and ancestral roots.

There are reservations out there of being trans racial. One being that it's absolutely impossible to be trans racial.

But I'm taking the position that accepting the identities of transgenders due to the freedom of choice and self expression applies to being trans racial with the same standard.

That's really the fundamental explanation. Not complicated or super convoluted.

Most of my argumentation will really come out of objections from the other side.

Such as trans racialism doesn't equate.

A gender identity is something innate while electing to be another "race" is socially externally conditioned.

The racial classifications involve culture and cannot be elected the same way as gender.

Without physical makeup, just simply identifying is insufficient without the exposure and experience of the plight of a people and their history.

In other words , there's a strong possibility people will pick and choose what aspect of "race" to identify with versus all the negatives and positives.

I conclude here .

Best.Korea

10.01.2023 10:53AM

Con

Well, there are not many trans race people.

But there are many of the trans gender people who are more oppressed than trans race people.

So they are not same. Trans gender is more valid and needs more support to be defended from brutal attacks of the bigot society.

Round 2

Mall

10.02.2023 03:01PM

Pro

You say transgenderism is more valid than trans racial identification.

So do you agree they're both valid?

Best.Korea

10.03.2023 06:11PM

Con

You wrote:

"Both are sound and work the same right"

I proved that they are not same, but one is more valid.

They are both valid, yes, but not equally nor work the same right.

Round 3

Mall

10.04.2023 02:46PM

Pro

"You wrote:"

"Both are sound and work the same right"

Are you going to ask me what I mean by this?

They work the same what?

"I proved that they are not same, but one is more valid."

Obviously between gender identity and racial identity, gender and race are not the same.

So what is the same?

Selective identity.

Don't isolate out of a context .

Let's add more of what I put in the text .

"You can identify with what you do. Gender, race, you can have one with the other."

That is the same. I said nothing about not having more or less or the same amount of validity.

Just look at the topic statement again .

"The validity of transgenderism you can have with trans racialism."

I said you can have one with the other.

"They are both valid, yes,"

You agreed both are valid. The validity in one, you can have in the other.

Your position was supposed to be only one has validity while the other does not. The validity in one you can't have with the other.

You can try to argue you can't have the same amount of validity but it's moving the goalpost. I never stated anything about quantities. You assumed or read into the word "same". Same what?

That could of been flushed out first. The same validity or same valid reason or sound standard which is to identify oneself as an elective.

Best.Korea

10.06.2023 12:51PM

Con

You can identify with what you do. Gender, race, you can have one with the other.

Since they are not equally valid, it follows that gender has priority in identifying. So there are cases where you can identify with your gender but not with your race, since if I have to choose between the two, I choose gender.

Both are sound and work the same right.

They dont work the same.

Round 4

Mall

10.07.2023 12:09PM

Pro

"Since they are not equally valid, it follows that gender has priority in identifying. So there are cases where you can identify with your gender but not with your race, since if I have to choose between the two, I choose gender."

I hope you answer all these questions. I don't believe you have been answering all questions which is a part of conceding.

First question. In what cases can I not identify with race and how are you in place to dictate to me I cannot identify?

Isn't this the freedom identity given to them to elect gender identity?

This is why the validity with one is the same validity being used by another.

This is what I mean by same which you didn't acknowledge. Out of what you just said, you making a double standard. In attempt to make the validity different, you just end up designing a double standard just as you did.

So now you have to explain why can't I have the freedom to identify as a race of my personal choice while anyone else can have the freedom to identify as a gender of there personal choice.

Best.Korea

10.09.2023 11:34AM

Con

Ran out of time. Will post next round.

Round 5

Mall

10.09.2023 12:41PM

Pro

I'm valid in the freedom of choosing the race I elect to identify as just as another is in choosing a gender to identify as.

It's personal choice. Nobody else's choice to make. That's all the validity there is to it. Plain and straightforward, case closed.

Best.Korea

10.09.2023 02:31PM