Instigator / Pro
0
1500
rating
5
debates
60.0%
won
Topic
#4979

Professional athletes are not overpaid

Status
Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics
Better arguments
0
0
Better sources
0
0
Better legibility
0
0
Better conduct
0
0

After not so many votes...

It's a tie!
Parameters
Publication date
Last updated date
Type
Standard
Number of rounds
3
Time for argument
One day
Max argument characters
10,000
Voting period
One week
Point system
Multiple criterions
Voting system
Open
Contender / Con
0
1492
rating
13
debates
46.15%
won
Description

I (Kouen) will defend that professional athletes are not overpaid, while the opponent will defend that professional athletes are overpaid

Round 1
Pro
#1
Athletes with salaries that reach millions of dollars per year generate enough money to justify them. Last year, the NHL and NBA had an average attendance of more than 17000 people. The MLB surpassed the 26000 mark, and theNFL had nearly 70000 fans assisting a game on average. www.statista.com/statistics/207458/per-game-attendance-of-major-us-sports-leagues/
Each attendants finances the sports teams, which can then afford to pay theplayers. People who watch games from their homes also bring in a lot of money thanks to ad revenue. (ex. the NFL made nearly 4.5 billion dollars of revenue solely in ad sales (www.sportspromedia.com/news/nfl-tv-adversting-sales-revenue-espn-fox-cbs-nbc-2021-2022/?zephr_sso_ott=XUnqiN). When people are willing to watch someone do something for hours and on a consistent basis, it's normal for them to earn that much. Would you like to be paid an average salary when you bring in millions(or more) of dollars to the people that pay you?

Sportsmen also possess rare skills and a worker’s value increases when he or she has a distinctive skill. Only 0.0625% of high school athletes become professionals (www.researchgate.net/publication/334999911_Student-Athlete_to_Professional_Athlete_Confronting_the_Brutal_Facts). This shows how ridiculously rare theability to play at the highest level is. Since they possess a unique skill that millions want to see, they deserve to receive big salaries.

Athletes also have to do abundant training and need to maintain a work schedule that requires discipline that most workers do not have.


Con
#2
Thank you for being here.

The fundamental issue here is so simple that I see no need for a long argument. 

You are factually correct that they are paid proportionally due to the amount of revenue they create for their respective companies.

I see the issue as an underlying issue with capitalism.

They are paid too much because the prices are too high. Being able to attend a sporting event is often out of reach for the common person. Even people who work just as hard or harder than these professional athletes can not afford to watch in person due to the disparity in pay. 

The issue here is less that they are "overpaid" and much more an issue that all the people that support their extravagant lifestyle are extremely underpaid. So in contrast to all the others in this society, they are EXTREMELY overpaid.

The people that support their extravagant pay have no say over the prices set, they have only the choice of participating as an observer, or being left out. 

People are born with physical limitations. Some can train hard to reach a professional level, others will never be able to reach that level no matter how hard they train.

Someone should not have so much luxury due to the genetic lottery if others are highly disadvantaged as a consequence.

Round 2
Pro
#3
Thank you too for being here.

I agree that there are problems with capitalism, like in other economic and political systems, but that could be a conversation for another day.

You’re saying that people in general are paid so little compared to the highest-paid athletes that it makes athletes be overpaid. I disagree with this as we live in a capitalist society, so it’s normal. Now we can say that capitalism has its problems, but we can’t say that it doesn’t directly make athletes’ salaries reasonable.

It’s not the athletes’ fault if people are willing to see them and it makes them money. 

While it’s true that it’s impossible for most people to have a chance at reaching the pro level because of physical limitations, it’s also true about doctors, surgeons, and other jobs, but we can’t say that doctors, surgeons, etc. are overpaid. Some people just aren’t cut for those jobs. According to Doyen Rainey: «only about 17% of US Freshman pre-meds earn admission to med school. About 140,000 start out. Half drop the program before completion. Of those who “stick it out” and take the MCAT (~70,000), half do not do well enough on the MCAT even to apply. Of the ~ 35,000 who apply, a little under half get in. Among the ~18,000–20,000 applicants who are rejected (and some of those who didn’t apply after their first MCAT), about 6,000 will eventually earn admission on subsequent attempts.» And mind that these people aren’t the average students, they’re all people that were amongst the best in highly-reputed high schools. https://www.quora.com/What-percentage-of-pre-med-students-eventually-become-doctors

So it’s true that the genetics lottery closes people’s paths to becoming pro sports athletes, but that also applies to other well-paid jobs. The example with doctors was just one amongst many examples of this.
Con
#4
You can't ignore the economic system when we are discussing economic issues.

To say "ah man, forget that it's capitalism, their pay is normal for the system we live in" shows there is no interest in actually understanding why they are so extremely overpaid. 

The fact is that we do live in a capitalistic society, and that is a driving factor for why they are overpaid. If we didn't live in a capitalist society, then their pay wouldn't be an issue. 

But for the sake of imagination, let's say we don't live in a capitalist society. Let's say the money simply isn't there. Let's operate under an assumption that instead of money changing hands, the luxuries are directly afforded to those in positions of rarity.

So in this hypothetical society, professional athletes are given free access to all groceries. They can have t-bone steaks for dinner every night. They are assigned personal health instructors, given the best doctors, tickets to other athletes events, a 12 car garage filled with exotic cars.

They live in a home with more rooms than they can feasibly use, and all they have to do is play sports. They wake up at 5:00 am, have a well constructed breakfast with all the nutrients they need. They eat, then exercise. For lunch, a well constructed lunch which leaves them satisfied and pumped. More exercise, skill training, and then a dinner of such luxury that many don't see a meal like it in their lifetime. Their daily life is what other people dream of, but will never have.

People who could even potentially reach that same level of fitness and skill simply can't because they have to spend 60 hrs a week in a factory creating things that are actually necessary for society to function. This laborer is locked in a cycle of meager breakfast, sandwich and chips for lunch, and a simple dinner. They aren't afforded health care, their home is literally falling apart, and their vehicle is always almost broken.

Your argument states that someone is not overpaid for having 100 times the luxury as someone else.

The overpaid person, the professional athlete, and we can even bring certain politicians, businessmen, and stock traders into this account, has access to more luxury than they could ever possibly use, while someone who is actually building the society lives a life of near slavery.

These "lower" class people provide the funds necessary to pay these events, they are the ones that built the stadium, maintain it, prepare the food, and lay the streets we drive on. They deserve the luxury more than someone who has to do nothing more than exercise and play sports, they deserve just as much luxury as the manager who stands there and says, "work faster."

Many people could never afford to go to a professional event. I know I've never been to one, and honestly I never plan to. I couldn't afford it if I wanted to go. But my manager, who sits in an office all day while I perform manual labor, he can afford it. And his manager can afford twice as much. And his supervisor can afford even more. And the CEO could buy out the stadium. 

You can try to avoid the issue by pointing to metrics that say "well this is the revenue, their percentage is fair" but that completely ignores the society in which the metrics exist. The data is the way it is because of the setup of the socioeconomic system. It's a hierarchy of labor where the ones who work the most rarely have even a chance to climb the ladder, while those who were born into wealth get afforded opportunities that lead to even greater wealth.

If your level of wealth is directly detrimental to the majority of society, then you are overpaid. 

If I ever were to rise to such exorbitant levels of fame and wealth, my #1 priority would be to ensure the wealth is returned to those who created it. I don't deserve to be above the rest of humanity. 

The way society currently is, it's slavery. 1% of the population has control of 99% of the resources, and the 1% is carefully divided amongst the 99%, by the 1%. If you tell me that THAT isn't an issue, we've got a major disagreement. If ones pursuits in life are around acquiring wealth, they are detrimental to the society we live in. The system that we live in will collapse and find itself in war if changes aren't made. People are getting tired of the treatment. 

And honestly, as overpaid as these athletes are, they aren't even the real issue. They are the pawns of much wealthier men. They pay these athletes to distract us from what's truly going on. Hard to see the man behind the curtain if you're focused on the flashing lights and loud music. 

The optimum future for society will have everyone doing their fair share, and being taken care of, with no one having an exorbitant amount of wealth to horde and wield as a means of control.

We are not as free as they would like you to think.
Round 3
Pro
#5
While the first part of your message is true, it simply explains problems with capitalism, not with athletes’ salaries. The cream of the crop is paid a lot because we allow them to be paid a lot by watching them, sitting through their games, etc. Their salaries are justified because of us, it’s our fault. 

I suggest we begin watching farmers take care of their fields, animals, and farms instead of watching sportsmen play. We should pay to watch them do their job on TV or drive to farms to see them in action. The farmers are essential for our survival so we should have them receive high salaries, which in this system, is justified by what a person generates.

Let’s say there was a scale to perfectly measure how useful a job is. Let’s say that we used that scale to pay workers. And let’s imagine that athletes were all paid average salaries and you were a superstar athlete. How would you feel if you brought in tens of millions to the people that pay you and only received like 40000$? (One would argue you'd be a slave in this situation. (I wouldn't but that position would be defendable.))

“These ‘lower’ class people provide the funds necessary to pay these events, they are the ones that built the stadium, maintain it, prepare the food, and lay the streets we drive on. They deserve the luxury more than someone who has to do nothing more than exercise and play sports, they deserve just as much luxury as the manager who stands there and says, ‘work faster.’” Saying all a sportsmen is doing is exercise and plays sports is displaying a lack of understanding on how difficult doing their job is. Now, about the working class of people (I get what you meant but I find the term ‘lower-class’ degrading, as they’re not humanly inferior to people that earn more), they don't deserve more luxury as what you've described is a collective effort. One of these working class people alone is not financing this, it's the working class as a whole that is.

I feel like we’re getting out of topic by discussing the social and economic unfairness of the system we live in. That’s not what the conversation is about.

“If your level of wealth is directly detrimental to the majority of society, then you are overpaid.” Is your point that every job should be paid the same? Doctors having an average salary ranging from 200000$ to 600000$ is detrimental to most of society as all that money could  be used better and is way more than what’s necessary for someone to live well https://www.kaptest.com/study/mcat/doctor-salaries-by-specialty/#:~:text=Here%20are%20the%20top%20medical%20specialties%2C%20ranked%20by%20average%20income%3A 

“If I ever were to rise to such exorbitant levels of fame and wealth, my #1 priority would be to ensure the wealth is returned to those who created it. I don't deserve to be above the rest of humanity.” I agree with the first sentence. It’s out of topic. About the second sentence, you’re not above people as a human because you earn more than them. 

“The way society currently is, it's slavery. 1% of the population has control of 99% of the resources, and the 1% is carefully divided amongst the 99%, by the 1%.[...]” ah you also defend the same delusional stance as @n8nrgim did yesterday which shows a lack of understanding of what a slave is. The 1% controlling the 99% is a problem with capitalism in general, not sportsmen, also these disparities aren’t their fault, you yourself believe all they do is lift some weight and earn millions. These disparities are created by multi-billionaires who own successful enterprises. https://www.forbes.com/billionaires/. I’ve scrolled down to position #1164 and researched through CTRL+F and my hand honestly hurts. Not a single sportsman cracks the top 1164. It’s the multi-billionaire corporations that are the cause of the problem you’re pointing out, not athletes. You also admitted lower down your answer that athletes aren’t the real issue.

“They are the pawns of much wealthier men. They pay these athletes to distract us from what's truly going on. Hard to see the man behind the curtain if you're focused on the flashing lights and loud music.” 1- You’re missing the reason why they’re paid so much. 2- Richer people on top of richer people is publicly known and available information that my little sister who goes to elementary school and plays Roblox every day could find 😂 We know there's a problem with the system, we're just not acting upon it.

“We are not as free as they would like you to think.” We are not slaves. Please, in this day and age of information being readily available to us, inform yourself about what a slave is, and don’t fall into this trap. You’re better than this. You know better. You’ve completed college/you’re in college and you go on debating websites. People don’t realize how hard these feats are to pull off and how much hard work from the parents/tutors/etc. and children it takes. Just from your profile, I know you’re more intelligent than to believe we’re slaves. 

Also, overall, your critique is of capitalism, not athletes’ salaries. And you’ve admitted athletes aren’t the problem in the issue you’ve pointed out.

Au revoir!


Con
#6
Forfeited