Instigator / Pro
9
1500
rating
5
debates
60.0%
won
Topic
#4987

Abortion is Murder

Status
Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics
Better arguments
3
15
Better sources
4
10
Better legibility
2
5
Better conduct
0
5

After 5 votes and with 26 points ahead, the winner is...

Public-Choice
Parameters
Publication date
Last updated date
Type
Standard
Number of rounds
3
Time for argument
One week
Max argument characters
10,000
Voting period
One week
Point system
Multiple criterions
Voting system
Open
Contender / Con
35
1589
rating
18
debates
69.44%
won
Description

I (Kouen) will argue that Abortion Is Murder while the opponent will argue that Abortion Is not Murder

Round 1
Pro
#1
Thank you for accepting the debate.

We share the burden of proof (I’ve seen this has caused problems in past debates of mine as people believed I had the whole burden of proof while they had nothing to do).

I see that definitions or murder differ. I believe we should go with -when a person intentionally kills another person-. The elements of intent, killing, and unlawfulness are often part of the definition. I didn't take the unlawfullness part because it vastly differs according to the time, state, and country(https://www.cfr.org/article/abortion-law-global-comparisons#:~:text=Abortion%20Laws%20Around%20the%20World///https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/us/abortion-laws-roe-v-wade.html#:~:text=Full%20ban,15%2D18%20weeks) and it's irrelevant debating which locations/countries are right or wrong.

Abortion is murder as it consists in a person killing another human being on purpose.

A vast and recent study gathered biologists from around the world from 1,058 academic institutions. A nearly unanimous 96%(5337 out of 5577) agreed that human life begins at the moment of fertilization (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36629778/ <- .gov source btw). At least if it was 60 vs 40, this would be subject to debate. Since we are not experts we have to go along with the expert consensus, they nearly all agree on human life starting at the moment of fertilization.

As soon as fertilization begins, there is an alive human in there, so the act of abortion is murder.

Con
#2
Thank you to Kouen for creating this debate. I hope it is insightful to all who read it.

P1 - DEFINITION OF MURDER
STATUS: REJECTED
REASON: SPECIAL PLEADING

I shall begin my argument by calling all to notice how PRO failed to use any definition of murder in the description and NOW asks for special pleading that we all adhere to his relativistic definition of abortion that he laid out in his first argument.

Since we are discussing murder, which is a criminal offense, I believe it necessary to look to a governing body. The international governing body of world affairs is the United Nations, which also, subsequently, has a published international law.

According to article 7 of the International Law, murder only happens when a systematic or widespread attack against a civilian population occurs with knowledge by the person about the attack on a civilian population. [1]

Based on the prevailing global legal definition, abortion cannot be murder since it is neither systematic nor widespread on a civilian population, but rather against a lone individual.

P2 - CONSENSUS ON WHEN LIFE BEGINS
STATUS: REJECTED
REASON: MISCHARACTERIZATION OF THE SCIENCE

PRO uses a study to create the illusion of consensus when, in reality, that study is the exception, not the norm.

The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG), which is the largest group of reproductive scientists and members of the medical field, does not agree that abortion is murder. [2]

In fact, ACOG says abortion is actually health care:
All people should have access to the full spectrum of comprehensive, evidence-based health care. Abortion is an essential component of comprehensive, evidence-based health care. [2]

Moreover, The Society for Maternal-Fetal Medicine (SMFM), which is one of the largest societies of maternal-fetal specialists, [3] also supports abortion as a form of medical care:
SMFM supports access to abortion care for all individuals and is especially concerned with access for high-risk obstetric patients. [4]

Finally, the American Medical Association, the largest medical association in America, also agrees that abortion is good medical care:
The AMA’s Principles of Medical Ethics have long acknowledged that when the letter of the law would foreclose urgently needed care, physicians must have latitude to act in accord with their best professional judgment. The newly amended ethical guidance clarifies this principle in the context of abortion, expressly permitting physicians to perform abortions in keeping with good medical practice. [5]

The scientific consensus, therefore, is clearly not that abortion is murder. In fact, all the major medical and medical science organizations say the opposite, that it is medical care.

Despite what PRO would have readers THINK is true, the experts actually disagree with him on both the definition of murder and that abortion is, in and of itself, murder.

As PRO already conceded, we must listen to the expert consensus. Therefore PRO must resign since his own argument refutes his assertions.

SOURCES:

Round 2
Pro
#3
Forfeited
Con
#4
Extend.
Round 3
Pro
#5
Forfeited
Con
#6
Vote CON