Abortion is Murder
The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.
After 5 votes and with 26 points ahead, the winner is...
- Publication date
- Last updated date
- Type
- Standard
- Number of rounds
- 3
- Time for argument
- One week
- Max argument characters
- 10,000
- Voting period
- One week
- Point system
- Multiple criterions
- Voting system
- Open
I (Kouen) will argue that Abortion Is Murder while the opponent will argue that Abortion Is not Murder
All people should have access to the full spectrum of comprehensive, evidence-based health care. Abortion is an essential component of comprehensive, evidence-based health care. [2]
SMFM supports access to abortion care for all individuals and is especially concerned with access for high-risk obstetric patients. [4]
The AMA’s Principles of Medical Ethics have long acknowledged that when the letter of the law would foreclose urgently needed care, physicians must have latitude to act in accord with their best professional judgment. The newly amended ethical guidance clarifies this principle in the context of abortion, expressly permitting physicians to perform abortions in keeping with good medical practice. [5]
Kouen R1
Shared burden of proof, murder as killing,
One might argue 'why the word murder exists, if it means the 'same as killing,
Also might have been better put in description.
By Kouen's definition, I assume he'll make strong push towards debate being about whether fetus is a 'person.
Kouen uses a source and pushes for human life starting at fertilization,
Still, human 'life might not be viewed the same as human 'being.
Public-Choice R1
Yeah there's the weak point of using definitions in R1 rather than description, that can occur,
Though sometimes opponents are agreeable enough to R1 definitions.
I think that's a 'really weak definition of murder by Public-Choice.
To me looks that it's 'clearly talking about 'nations more than people.
Sources 2-5 argue for people having access and against criminalizing abortion, but that isn't the same as them taking a stance on whether it is murder/killing or not.
Not 'all definitions of murder 'require it to be criminal.
With just 1 round (The rest being forfeited or extended), neither side makes 'arguments that I consider convincing or 'better, Tie,
Both sides used sources, but I did not think Public-Choice's 'fit into the debate,
However Kouen did not fully 'utilize their source, Tie,
Legibility tie, both understandable.
Public-Choice get's conduct, since they were at least 'around for the debate,
Still, "(waiving is not an argument)"
https://info.debateart.com/terms-of-service/voting-policy
Full forfeit by Pro.
Full forfeit.
Nothing really to add. Seems like it could have been a good debate, but it’s a FF from Pro.
Nice R1 from pro but ultimately an FF.
Con wisely calls out the definition for special pleading. Additionally it’s an absurd definition, which reduced self defense and everyone involved in convicting and executing a mass murderer as murderers themselves.
Flipping pros own appeal to authority was well executed (pun intended, murderer!). While I see defenses which could be done on that front, they were not.
Im suprised the "work around" of this argument hasn't been argued.
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Lemming
YOUR PATHETIC QUOTE OF CIRCULAR REASONING: "I would like to state that Mods seem to take reports from the targets of harassment more seriously than bystander reports of harassment."
AGAIN, I am NOT harassing in any way or from the Bible Stupid "Public-Choice" whereas at times it only looks that way to ignorant members like YOU because I have to correct "Public-Choice's" outstanding Bible Stupidity!!! Remember where I have to correct your Bible ineptness in other threads, where that was NOT harassing you, but correcting you where what you thought you knew about Christianity, YOU DIDN'T!
I suggest that you just stay upon the sidelines where you belong in the first place, and just watch.
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"Public-Choice," the RUNAWAY from biblical axioms because he can't address them and remain intelligent looking in the aftermath! LOL!
YOUR CRYBABY QUOTE IN FRONT OF THE MEMBERSHIP: "Are you saying I broke conduct? Or that Mr.BrotherD is harassing me?"
Listen up Bible DUMBASS®️, I am NOT harassing you when I have to correct your Bible Stupidity all the time, understood? If you need to go crying like a little diaper baby to the moderators because I easily own your Bible ignorance, then by all means, do so and sniffle and weep to them that Mr. Brother D. Thomas is making me look like the Bible fool in his posts to me!
I added moderator Barney to be notified of your sniveling crybaby presence in this thread so if he responds, then do it like a man in front of the membership in this thread without messaging a moderator like a little toddler child, understood?
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"Public-Choice," the RUNAWAY from biblical axioms because he can't address them and remain intelligent looking in the aftermath! LOL!
You address my posts 4, 7, 10, and 14 of Jesus being an abortionist FIRST and foremost before I continue to make you the outright Bible fool that you truly are, understood?
BEGIN:
So, I'll take that as a "yes."
So, I'd now like to ask you how you support abortion as a Christian when it is murder?
We, as in you and I, are not allowed to murder. So abortion is wrong.
Are you saying I broke conduct? Or that Mr.BrotherD is harassing me?
I would like to state that Mods seem to take reports from the targets of harassment more seriously than bystander reports of harassment.
I would also like to argue that it is better for the community if individuals who break the DART Code of Conduct are held responsible,
Even if 'you have thick skin towards them,
'Not reporting certain actions by them,
Allows them to act that way towards other users.
https://info.debateart.com/terms-of-service/rules
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"Public-Choice," the RUNAWAY from biblical axioms because he can't address them and remain intelligent looking in the aftermath! LOL!
I am sorry, but I didn't know you were a "newb" at trying to be a Christian. Therefore, this is why your Bible STUPIDITY has absolutely no bounds, okay, I understand you now!
1. YOUR DUMBFOUNDED QUOTE IN BEING A "NEWB": "Be consistent, man. You say we should follow the 10 commandments and then can't even say we shouldn't murder?"
No Bible fool, I said we "have to follow all 613 Commandments" within the Bible, that you didn't even know existed in the first place, where I had to inform you of this BIBLICAL FACT at your embarrassing expense in front of the membership! LOL!
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2. YOUR REALLY STUPID QUOTE IN BEING A "NEWB" AGAIN: "In which case, you still haven't disproven my position that abortion is wrong because it is murder."
Listen up "Air Head Pseudo-Christian," Jesus set an example in ABORTING His creation in my posts 4,7,10, and 14, that you are still RUNNING AWAY from in being too SCARED to address them! Therefore, since Jesus set this example in murdering innocent zygotes, fetus' and babies, then His Hebrew creation can abort their humans within the woman's wombs as well, GET IT BIBLE FOOL? Jesus set an example for us to follow ALL of His actions, including Jesus aborting life within the womb of women: "For I have given you an example, that you also should do just as I have done to you." (John 13:15). GET IT BIBLE FOOL?" HUH?
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Since you are obviously a Bible Stupid "Newbe" in trying to be a Christian, then Jesus' words tells me to "school you" as shown herewith: "Train up a child in the way he should go; even when he is old he will not depart from it." (Proverbs 22:6). Therefore, I will "train you as a child" as you have shown yourself to be in the way you should go in following ALL of Jesus' inspired words within the scriptures, understood? Jesus and I will perform this act within the realm of your ever so wanting debate and other disturbing aspects of your comically stupid biography! LOL!
You're to new to Christianity to not understand the biblical acronym of "WWJD," therefore I will teach you this concept, but unfortunately at your expense, because what you thought you knew about TRUE Christianity, you blatantly didn't and its embarrassing to watch you in this vein!
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AGAIN, IS THERE ANYONE TO HELP THIS POOR NEOPHYTE OF CHRISTIANITY "PUBLIC-CHOICE" YET? PLEEEEEEEESE, SOMEONE HELP THIS UNGODLY PSEUDO-CHRISTIAN TO ACTUALLY LEARN ALL OF THE BIBLE'S TEACHINGS! LOL!
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I'll take that as a no, then.
Be consistent, man. You say we should follow the 10 commandments and then can't even say we shouldn't murder?
In which case, you still haven't disproven my position that abortion is wrong because it is murder.
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Stephen,
WOW, we thought Miss Tradesecreet was Bible Stupid and a RUNAWAY from the true words of Jesus as God, but take a look at the pseudo-christian extraordinaire named "Public-Choice" in him literally making a complete Bible fool of himself in front of the membership as shown in my previous posts to him! LOL!
I can't count the times that we have run across the Bible Stupids®️ like "Pro-Choice" over the years, where it looks like he got his knowledge of Christianity out of a Cracker-Jack Box! LOL!
Jesus and I are going to have a lot of fun with this pseudo-christian named "Public-Choice," but it will be at his embarrassing expense in front of the membership for sure!
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"Public-Choice," the RUNAWAY from biblical axioms because he can't address them and remain intelligent looking in the aftermath!!! LOL!!!
YOUR QUOTE OF ANOTHER "EXCUSE" THAT WAS SUBSEQUENT TO MY POSTS #4 AND #7: "Simple answer man. Yes or no. Do you think we should ignore the commandment telling us not to murder?"
We can see that if you can't copy and paste someone else's work like you had to do in your post #2 (https://www.debateart.com/debates/4987-abortion-is-murder?argument_number=2) you are out of your league and represent a fish out of water gasping for air like you are doing in the comment section of this debate! LOL!
Heads up pseudo-christian fool, you are to answer posts IN ORDER of their presentation, therefore you have yet to address my posts #4 and #7 that were BEFORE your post #8, get it dumb ass pseudo-christian? If need be, have your mommy help you with this logical conclusion, in other words, you don't get something for nothing, GET IT?
IS THERE ANY OTHER DUMBFOUNDED PSEUDO-CHRISTIAN LIKE "PUBLIC-CHOICE" THAT CAN MAYBE HELP THIS POOR BOY ACTUALLY ADDRESS MY SIMPLE POSTS TO HIM, AND THAT WON'T RUN AWAY FROM THEM LIKE HE IS EMBARRASSINGLY DOING IN FRONT OF THE MEMBERSHIP? ANYONE?
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Simple answer man. Yes or no.
Do you think we should ignore the commandment telling us not to murder?
YOUR TOTALLY BIBLE IGNORANT QUOTE AGAIN: "Are you saying we should ignore the 10 Commandments?"
HELLO? Anybody home today? Obviously not! There are not only 10 Commandments, but there are 613 of them you outright bible dunce! I didn't answer your post #8 because I didn't want you to easily be made the Bible dumb ass again, but since you called me out upon said post, I WILL MAKE YOU THE BIBLE FOOL AGAIN!
613 Commandments within Jesus' inspired scriptures:
https://www.the613commandments.com/The-List-of-the-613-Commandments.html
May I make a suggestion to you in you being a pseudo-christian troll at best, so far you have shown the membership in what a cowardly chicken you are in not being able to address my biblical axioms, but only to run away from them and hide, therefore to save your sorry ass from further embarrassment, either learn the Bible, or leave your debate about abortion because once again, Jesus is the #1 ABORTIONIST of all times, and His bible is full of abortions that He allowed to happen! Do you understand Bible fool? Huh?
NEXT BIBLE DUMBASS EQUAL TO "PRO-CHOICE" THAT IS A PSEUDO-CHRISTIAN TROLL THAT HAS ABSOLUTELY NO BUSINESS IN BEING IN A DEBATE ABOUT ABORTION IS MURDER, BECAUSE JESUS WAS BRUTAL ABORTIONIST, WILL BE ...?
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Public-Choice, the blatant pseudo-christian RUNAWAY from Jesus' true words within the scriptures,
YOUR DUMB ASS EMBARRASSING PSEUDO-CHRISTIAN QUOTE AGAIN: "Let the record show that Mr.BrotherD.Thomas, when asked, could not answer "no" to when he was asked if he was telling me to ignore the 10 Commandments."
Jesus and I will play your little insipid pseudo-christian TROLL game, whereas, let the record BLATANTLY SHOW that the pseudo-christian named "Public-Choice" RAN AWAY from my following biblical axioms and went into hiding in being SCARED TO DEATH in me showing Jesus' true modus operandi to him:
1. Do the simple math Bible fool, Jesus as God ignored Exodus 20:13 in the book of Hosea where he explicitly stated: "And if they give birth, I will slaughter their beloved children"
2. Furthermore, in Jesus being God, and in part, He murdered innocent zygotes, fetus' and babies within women's wombs in His Great Flood as He drowned them to death, where Jesus is a blatant abortionist! Therefore, when you are an assumed Christian, your debate is hypocritical to Jesus' true modus operandi, GET IT BIBLE FOOL? Huh?
Here is another Jesus as God FACT relative to abortion that you can RUN AWAY from as well in front of the membership:
Jesus AS GOD allows the pregnant women of Tappuah to be “ripped open” in 2 Kings 15:16, whereas if they were with child, then this is blatantly an act of brutal abortion, do you understand you TROLL pseudo-christian?
Since you are RUNNING AWAY from addressing my godly posts to you like a little 6 year old child, can you tell the membership in what RUNNING SHOES you are wearing, are they Adidas, Converse, Nike, or? LOL!
NEXT?
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Let the record show that Mr.BrotherD.Thomas, when asked, could not answer "no" to when he was asked if he was telling me to ignore the 10 Commandments.
idk what Christianity he claims to practice, but it obviously isn't authentic.
See. They be every where online. That under the bridge thing, waiting for anyone to hassle with gibberish nonsense to cause anger.
Just don't look.
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hey-yo,
YOUR STUPID QUOTE TO TRY AND HELP OUT THE TWO BIBLE FOOLS THAT OPENED THIS THREAD: "Ignore the trolls."
I am hardly a troll when I bring forth actual biblical axioms that Kouen and Public-Choice are RUNNING AWAY from at their embarrassment in front of the membership! And, if the truth were known, you would be running away from my Biblical FACTS as well, that is, if you had the nerve to "try" and refute them! NOT!
The troll is like YOU, who come into this Religion Forum and have absolutely NO Biography whatsoever, where you are obviously to embarrassed to make one out! Lol!
Run along troll hey-yo ................
NEXT?
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YOUR CONTINUED BIBLE STUPIDITY QUOTE: "Are you saying we should ignore the 10 Commandments?"
Do the simple math Bible fool, Jesus as God ignored Exodus 20:13 in the book of Hosea where he explicitly stated: "And if they give birth, I will slaughter their beloved children"
Furthermore, in Jesus being God, and in part, He murdered innocent zygotes, fetus' and babies within women's wombs in His Great Flood as He drowned them to death, where Jesus is a blatant abortionist! Therefore, when you are an assumed Christian, your debate is hypocritical to Jesus' true modus operandi, GET IT BIBLE FOOL? Huh?
You two Bible fools, as assumed Christians, are an embarrassment in bringing up the notion of abortion is murder, when our God Jesus was the #1 ABORTIONIST of all times! Can you spell H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-T-E-S? Sure you can! LOL!
NEXT?
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Ignore the trolls.
Are you saying we should ignore the 10 Commandments?
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Public-Choice,
YOUR BIBLE IGNORANT QUOTE TO JESUS AS GOD BEING A MURDERER IN THE BOOK OF HOSEA 9:11-16: "Thou shalt not murder - 10 Commandments. God doesn't murder. Therefore neither do I."
How literally Bible Stupid are you willing to be in front of the membership of this esteemed Religion Forum? Huh? What part of Hosea 9:11-16 didn't you understand where our Jesus as God DOES MURDER innocent life herewith: "Their roots are dried up; they will bear no more fruit. And if they give birth, I will slaughter their beloved children."
JESUS STATED IF THE WOMEN IN THE HOSEA CHAPTER GIVE BIRTH, HE WILL "SLAUGHTER" THEIR BELOVED CHILDREN! UNDERSTOOD BIBLE FOOL?!
Besides, Jesus as God is hardly pro-life, you blatant stupid bible idiot! There is ONE GOD, and that God is Jesus, therefore in another biblical scenario, Jesus AS GOD murdered all of His HEBREW Creation in his Great Flood, remember? This is especially troublesome because in the Flood scenario, Jesus murdered "INNOCENT" zygotes, fetus' and babies within women in gestation, and babies treading the ocean waters choking and screaming for their mothers before they went down into the ocean depths and dying a horrific suffocating death! These innocent human life didn't know of man's wickedness and evil, yet Jesus murdered them anyway; (Genesis 5:5-6). Therefore, does Jesus’ murderous act upon the innocent as aforementioned described seem correct since He is known to be an all loving and forgiving God? NOT!
In me being a TRUE Christian, I have to accept these ungodly actions by Jesus, where you have to make a complete fool of yourself in trying to defend Jesus as you "tried" to do in your irrelative quote above! Priceless outright buffoonery on your part! LOL!
You've already lost this debate and if you spend anymore time upon it, it is a waste of time for the both of you to do so!
NEXT BIBLE FOOL LIKE "PUBLIC-CHOICE" THAT DOESN'T KNOW THE SCRIPTURES RELATIVE TO JESUS BEING A SERIAL KILLER OF INNOCENT ZYGOTES, FETUS', AND BABIES, WILL BE ...?
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Thou shalt not murder - 10 Commandments.
God doesn't murder. Therefore neither do I.
Not to my likening at all but as it has been pointed by the biblical god and if god murders "children in the womb" it appears all is well and above board .
Didn't take long for "thou shalt not kill" to go flying out the window, did it?
WTF!!! Since the both of you are assumed Christians, then why are you talking about abortion being murder, when in FACT, Jesus as God (1 Timothy 4:10) blatantly performed abortions, and allows women to have miscarriages in murdering the zygotes all the time since He controls all things! (Proverbs 16:33). What gives with you two HYPOCRITES?!
JESUS AS GOD APPROVED AND DID THE FOLLOWING AS AN OUTRIGHT ABORTIONIST:
“The glory of Israel will fly away like a bird, for their children will die at birth or perish in the womb or never even be conceived. Even if your children survive to grow up, I will take them from you. It will be a terrible day when I turn away and leave you alone. I have watched Israel become as beautiful and pleasant as Tyre. But now Israel will bring out her children to be slaughtered oh Lord. what should I request for your people? I will ask for the wombs that don’t give birth and breast that give no milk. The LORD says, "All their wickedness began at Gilgal; there I began to hate them. I will drive them from my land because of their evil actions. I will love them no more because all their leaders are rebels. The people of Israel are stricken. Their roots are dried up; they will bear no more fruit. And if they give birth, I will slaughter their beloved children. (Hosea 9:11-16)
SILENCE, MUM'S THE WORD! We have a hard enough time in defending our faith of Christianity without you two dolts making it harder! ENOUGH!
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Just a reminder that your argument is due in 3 days.
No worries, man. I wasn't even bothered that you hadn't posted anything.
I'm taking my time because I'm trying to get through the four other debates I'm doing and then focus on this