Instigator / Pro
0
1332
rating
293
debates
40.78%
won
Topic
#5008

I am Pro. You choose the topic.

Status
Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics
Better arguments
0
0
Better sources
0
0
Better legibility
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0
Better conduct
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0

After not so many votes...

It's a tie!
Parameters
Publication date
Last updated date
Type
Rated
Number of rounds
3
Time for argument
Two days
Max argument characters
10,000
Voting period
Two weeks
Point system
Multiple criterions
Voting system
Open
Minimal rating
None
Contender / Con
0
1446
rating
360
debates
42.22%
won
Description

No information

Round 1
Pro
#1
The topic is

"According to the bible you can show by book chapter and verse to prove homosexuality is not sin and that God or Father God is a person."

Now, apparently I have to prove both of these.

First, lets start with homosexuality.

Homosexuality is sexual attraction to same sex.

It is very hard to change sexual attraction, if not impossible.

However, God says to come as you are.

"17 Nevertheless, each person should live as a believer in whatever situation the Lord has assigned to them, just as God has called them. This is the rule I lay down in all the churches. 18 Was a man already circumcised when he was called? He should not become uncircumcised. Was a man uncircumcised when he was called? He should not be circumcised. 19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God’s commands is what counts. 20 Each person should remain in the situation they were in when God called them."

1 Corinthians 7

Homosexuality is obviously not a choice. It is assigned by God.

Now, about God or Father God being person...
I am not sure what is meant by this.

Jesus did call God Father:

Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.

Luke 23:34
Con
#2
"Homosexuality is obviously not a choice. It is assigned by God."

What is the scripture that says that God assigned homosexuality to anybody.

Keep in mind what you say has to harmonize with Romans 1 which would indeed refute your whole case for homosexuality.

Romans 1 says at verse 25:

"They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error."

This conflicts with the assumption that God assigned homosexuality. Actually it's a lie according to verse 25. The homosexuals assign homosexuality themselves by exchanging the truth of God which  we read on is about the natural USE of the male and female. Of course we read back in Genesis 1 about God making male and female and the direction given to them about what to DO as male and female. Again what to DO.

That was the assignment then. You'll have to show me where at what point God changed this. I got bible right here where man changed it.

Let's harmonize Romans 1 with 1 Corinthians 7:17

 "But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches."

So without reading anything into this and knowing God has not assigned homosexuality to anyone, God gave them up, gave them up, not assign, but gave them up to homosexuality, God has given to every man that has been called. Well called for what?

Called to do whatever it is by God in his walk. When he's walking he's doing something. On the walk or path to something such as for instance being called or ordained in the churches. Whatever whom has been called to be allowed to walk in what they're doing has been given to them to do so.

God has distributed to whom as been called to be allowed to walk. When we read the scripture as is, that's all it says. It's not just you are what you are, be that, do that. This chapter is dealing with a calling and keeping of commandments as you read further down. There's many callings such as mentioned in the chapter of a wife saving husband in sanctification to holiness(keeping commandments of God).

It's a giving to a calling to do for God not for yourself which Romans 1 deals with about doing for yourself or the creature than Creator.

Each person should LIVE as a believer. So it's your walk or how you live and this again I just finished saying about the commandments of God. "Whatever situation the Lord has assigned " is whatever calling you've been given . It's a big leap to say whatever situation translates to whatever sexuality you are or whatever you are.

Scripture don't teach you can be just any way you are. Scripture teaches the way of holiness according to the book of Isaiah 35 . Without that, you can't even see the Lord.

"20 Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called."

That means being obedient to God as a servant. The chapter mentions about servant.

Just look at the problem with you reading into the text. 

If you read into " Each person should remain in the situation they were in when God called them." adding any sexuality you are along with it, why not add other things that will go contrary to the calling?

See this has to be rightly divided. Just reading the scripture generalizing adding anything that appears to fit into it , you go into error as again Romans 1 mentions about error .

Now as far as you proving God is a person. Simply find the scripture that reads God or the Father IS a person.
Round 2
Pro
#3
People dont choose their attraction.
Con
#4
"People dont choose their attraction."

Do they choose to act on it and whom they act on it with?

Let's bring this to the light. Scripture says he that doeth truth cometh to the light.

What is the truth of the matter? Homosexuality is not just an attraction that the opposing side is conveniently only broaching of. The acts of homosexuality is homosexuality in which the bible speaks against, speaks as sin/wickedness/evil as mentioned in Romans 1.

I'll just present to the readers. The opposing side had so much to respond to and came back with one statement. They don't have much else to say. Have a seat so to speak to hear the word of the Lord.

Homosexuality is not just attractions. I showed through scripture that God did not assign such a thing. God doesn't tempt with evil according to scripture. People choose to act on their desires in satiation for themselves the creature instead of the creator. The creator created the natural uses of those creatures that the creatures are exchanging, reassigning, not God.  God didn't reassign this.

I asked the opposing side to show where God did this. They came back with nothing because they have nothing.

They certainly didn't prove that God is a person. 

So you can say people don't choose their attractions or desires. But any desire or any delight I would say that's not in the will of God is the result from the fall from the very beginning of disobedience. We read about this in Romans 5 I believe. So disobedience has occurred since then given to the fall, given up to the desires and acts and those desires to act on given over to a reprobate mind.

So you can't choose what you delight in such as the same sex right. The first man choose it for you , not God. The first man fell and curse the proceeding of mankind from there. Scripture speaks about being born in sin, shaped, formed in iniquity. So you can be born with homosexual orientations, murderous orientations, pedophile or molesting orientations, fornicator, promiscuous orientations, so forth and so on .
All from being born of the flesh, cursed flesh. So when born of God, scripture says cannot sin. No longer of that curse, no longer yielding to the desires or attractions of the flesh that you didn't choose that wasn't made/ordained of the creator either.


Round 3
Pro
#5
Homosexuality is literally just an attraction.

Wait, when did I choose my attraction?
Con
#6
"Homosexuality is literally just an attraction."

Oh ok. An idea for a topic.

Let me ask , what do you call the act of sexuality between two homogeneous gendered people?

"Wait, when did I choose my attraction?"

I don't know when you particularly did as I don't personally know you.

I don't think I ever said you chose but from a biblical standpoint it was chosen for you. But God was not the one that chose it as you tried to use bible for it to say that He did. That's either an error or a lie.

Scripture says not to add to it less you be found a liar to be reproved.

You have given no rebuttals for the scriptures I've given backing that man has reassign their own sexuality indirectly on the aspect of exchanging the natural use(sexual acts) and through the fall of the first man causing mankind to be born in sin. This would mean that although you did not directly choose the attractions that are having you exchange the natural use that's against God's truth, those attractions are in the same boat of wickedness and corruption from whence the sin of exchanging natural use comes .

Let me break this down being that you never rebutted or challenge this from me about the attractions alone being sin.

I like to give full blown elaborations as opposed to you. But it's all good. You can't give what you don't have or haven't sufficiently prepared for.

Starting in Genesis 1.

"27 So God created mankind in his own image,
    in the image of God he created them;
    male and female he created them.
28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it."

So we have a male and female creation. These two are creatures with uses natural to them or created in them designated by the sex. All indicated out in Romans 1. Then these creatures are given direction what to do with their natural (given inherit designed)uses related to their respective creature designs. We have two designs , male and female. Two, not several including transgender. Another topic, I digress.

That is the assignment by God right there case closed. The story stops there with that. The opposing side has not presented any scripture where God made an amendment and reassigned anything.  In Romans 1, we're told that this was exchanged or reassigned canceling out the truth in Genesis 1 for a lie. What's the lie? That the designed use of the male is to be used for another male.

Let's get to where the corruption happened that started the exchange inwardly so that there be exchanges outwardly.

We read in Romans 5 verse 19

" For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous."

One man made many sinners that break the commands. The command to do one act or use by not doing it by exchanging it to do something else (Romans 1). That's outwardly. What about inwardly?

Romans 1 

"28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil"

What is that knowledge of God? The truth of God and what he's created all creatures the way he has done. These people that do what they ought not to do which is outside of what has been commanded are filled with wickedness, evil (inwardly)in order to invent evil ways.

So we have an inward disobedience, defiance, transgression that manifests. What manifests comes from the inward attraction where temptation and everything else arises.

Scripture mentions in the abundance of the heart which is inward is what comes OUT. Jeremiah 17 speaks on the wicked heart and the Lord that renders unto the ways of that person. The act or doing whatever it is that's against God is out of the heart  . The two are connected. There's not a condemned act without the condemned attraction to do that act.

Thereby explains the scripture about being born in sin or wickedness or evil or disobedience.

Let's get that.

Psalms

"51 Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions.
2 Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.
3 For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me.
4 Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.
5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
6 Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom."

We see again the context of transgression, sin, iniquity. So being born homosexual alone with deep seated attractions. The attractions alone weren't assigned by God. They were brought on by one man and now are instilled as part of many inquiries being born into it. The scripture just has it covered all around. People invent ways of wickedness coming up with different kind of sexual pervertedness as well as being filled with it. 

Verse 6 says truth in the inward parts. Inside were the truth has not been exchanged, the inward part has no wickedness, no desire to exchange the natural use .
 Alright I'm going one more place and I'm done.

This also came to mind.

 Psalms 

"58 Do ye indeed speak righteousness, O congregation? do ye judge uprightly, O ye sons of men?
2 Yea, in heart ye work wickedness; ye weigh the violence of your hands in the earth.
3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies."

Speaking righteousness. What is out of your mouth is in the abundance of the heart. So verse 2, in heart,in heart,in heart ye work wickedness.

Peace be unto all.