Instigator / Pro
0
1479
rating
318
debates
39.31%
won
Topic
#5043

It is logical to never ask for love, respect and or an apology.

Status
Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics
Better arguments
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Better sources
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After not so many votes...

It's a tie!
Parameters
Publication date
Last updated date
Type
Standard
Number of rounds
5
Time for argument
Three days
Max argument characters
30,000
Voting period
One month
Point system
Multiple criterions
Voting system
Open
Contender / Con
0
1300
rating
221
debates
44.8%
won
Description

Disclaimer : Regardless of the setup for voting win or lose, The aim of this interaction, Is for those that view it, Learn and or take away anything that will amount to any constructive value ultimately. So that counts as anything that'll cause one to reconsider an idea, Understand a subject better, Help build a greater wealth of knowledge getting closer to truth. When either of us has accomplished that with any individual here, That's who the victor of the debate becomes.

Questions on topic, drop a comment.

Round 1
Pro
#1
It is logical to never ask for love, respect and or an apology.

Why?

None of these mean anything if you have to ask .

Love does not come by force or request. It's a natural innate feeling, emotion and energy that causes one to act on certain manners towards reality.

You can't make someone like you. That's not the nature of having a liking for someone or thing. That's not the nature of interest. If that's the way interest worked, interest levels for different things can be all the same at will or on demand. Is that right or wrong?

Question number one to you the opposing side.

Do you think I mean my apology upon expressing of my own thought process and conscience?

If you tell me " say you're sorry?", how easy is it to just say what you tell me to say like a parrot?

I did something wrong and wronged you. Give me time to think on what I did. I come to the conclusion to express solemn regret. 

I don't respect you. If I did, why do you ask for respect?

You wanting someone to love you, is that the same asking for love?

It is logical to think that the love is genuine, without asking for it , isn't it?

Asking someone to tell you that they love you, isn't easier to put on an act of love?

But if I got to orchestrate everything on my own, the effort involved suggest an act of innate feelings, does it not?

If I'm being directed by everything you want me to do for you, how to care for you, am I an instrument, puppet , tool for your benefit or do I genuinely have a feeling driving me to do for you?

I have a will, a drive, a motivation, a desire to do without your input, acknowledgment, etc.

You have love and respect for yourself. What others decide to do is their choice. Their choice, their preference , their interest based on themselves. 

Each one of these questions I posed to the opposing side to answer. If you don't know how to answer, we may have alternate questioning.

It is logical to never ask for love, respect and or an apology.


Con
#2
Okay, I might have accepted the debate without thinking.

Okay, so first, apology.

Its not logical to never ask for an apology, if you want one.

Same goes for love and respect.

If you want to know if a girl loves you, you have to ask her.

And respect? Well, sometimes asking to be respected actually makes people fear you, hence respect you.
Round 2
Pro
#3
Let me get your responses to all these questions below so we can actually have a debate.

Question number one to you the opposing side.

Do you think I mean my apology upon expressing of my own thought process and conscience?

If you tell me " say you're sorry?", how easy is it to just say what you tell me to say like a parrot?

I did something wrong and wronged you. Give me time to think on what I did. I come to the conclusion to express solemn regret. 

I don't respect you. If I did, why do you ask for respect?

You wanting someone to love you, is that the same asking for love?

It is logical to think that the love is genuine, without asking for it , isn't it?

Asking someone to tell you that they love you, isn't easier to put on an act of love?

But if I got to orchestrate everything on my own, the effort involved suggest an act of innate feelings, does it not?

If I'm being directed by everything you want me to do for you, how to care for you, am I an instrument, puppet , tool for your benefit or do I genuinely have a feeling driving me to do for you?

"Its not logical to never ask for an apology, if you want one."

"Its not logical to never ask for an apology, if you want one."

How do know what you're asking for is authentic?

Would it be more so genuine based on the person giving the apology deciding in their mind to apologize?

Is it true by the decision in their mind, they've thought out the reason for apologizing versus you just giving a direction like a puppeteer?

If a person doesn't know why they're apologizing themselves, just asking for a apology has no substance. Feel free to actually respond to all these statements.


"If you want to know if a girl loves you, you have to ask her."

Not necessarily. Love is an action word. You can see love in action. 

If you want to know if a person loves you and you're asking them the question "do you love me?", are you asking for love or are you asking to confirm if they actually do or not?

The two are different.

"Well, sometimes asking to be respected actually makes people fear you, hence respect you."

Are you saying fear and respect are one in the same or to get respect it takes fear?

What about those who get respect without fear, without conflation, is that actual respect because it didn't have to take fear?

Due to fear it's how we're able to confirm a false respect.




Con
#4
Let me get your responses to all these questions below so we can actually have a debate.
Okay, lets get started.

Question number one to you the opposing side.
Do you think I mean my apology upon expressing of my own thought process and conscience?
I think this is about asking for an apology.

If you tell me " say you're sorry?", how easy is it to just say what you tell me to say like a parrot?
Well, easy.

I did something wrong and wronged you. Give me time to think on what I did. I come to the conclusion to express solemn regret.
I prefer torture.

I don't respect you. If I did, why do you ask for respect?
To make you fear and put you in your place, obviously. 

Its like when parents make their children apologize even when no one is really sorry.

You wanting someone to love you, is that the same asking for love?
Yes. Otherwise, why would I ask?

It is logical to think that the love is genuine, without asking for it , isn't it?
Those who ask are those who get.

Asking someone to tell you that they love you, isn't easier to put on an act of love?
Yes, if you want to be in friend zone.

But if I got to orchestrate everything on my own, the effort involved suggest an act of innate feelings, does it not?
Yes, but if the other side is shy, you will never get anywhere.

If I'm being directed by everything you want me to do for you, how to care for you, am I an instrument, puppet , tool for your benefit or do I genuinely have a feeling driving me to do for you?
Maybe, but it doesnt make difference to me.

How do know what you're asking for is authentic?
I dont, but it doesnt need to be. If someone is not sorry, at least he will be humiliated by forced apology.

Would it be more so genuine based on the person giving the apology deciding in their mind to apologize?
Yes. How long do I have to wait for that? Forever?

Is it true by the decision in their mind, they've thought out the reason for apologizing versus you just giving a direction like a puppeteer?
Yes.

If a person doesn't know why they're apologizing themselves, just asking for a apology has no substance. Feel free to actually respond to all these statements.
It doesnt need substance. I want an apology.


"If you want to know if a girl loves you, you have to ask her."
Not necessarily. Love is an action word. You can see love in action. 
Umm yeah, its those who ask who get. Even the Bible says so.

If you want to know if a person loves you and you're asking them the question "do you love me?", are you asking for love or are you asking to confirm if they actually do or not?
One can have both, but its mostly the first one.

Are you saying fear and respect are one in the same or to get respect it takes fear?
No. I am just saying that asking for respect has benefits.

What about those who get respect without fear, without conflation, is that actual respect because it didn't have to take fear?
Yes. However, currently, we are debating "asking respect vs not asking respect". We are not debating "respect vs fear".
Your position is that asking respect is illogical. I have already explained that asking respect can make people fear you, and if people fearing you is your goal, then asking respect is logical.

Due to fear it's how we're able to confirm a false respect
As long as people are afraid, tyrants will rule. So yeah, fear is good.
Round 3
Pro
#5
"I think this is about asking for an apology."

I couldn't follow how this answers the question.

Do you think I mean my apology upon expressing of my own thought process and conscience or not?

Do you believe I'm sincere in my apology giving it upon my own rumination?

"Well, easy."

One nail in the coffin.

"I prefer torture."

Ok, do you agree that upon doing something wrong, given the time  to think on it and decide to express solemn regret, is that what it is?

"To make you fear and put you in your place, obviously. "

This is your response to"I don't respect you. If I did, why do you ask for respect?".

Why ask for something you already have? Keywords "If I did".

"Its like when parents make their children apologize even when no one is really sorry."

This is just an example of what I'm talking about. It's illogical. You're pretty much saying right here, making or instructing someone to apologize constitutes no real apology. Therefore you don't ask, tell or instruct this. It has to be from the heart all on it's own or else it doesn't mean anything.


"Yes. Otherwise, why would I ask?"

I don't know. You'd have to tell that why you would as you're asking is subjective to you.

In other words to me, just because I want something, it has nothing to do with asking. Wanting and asking are two different things, but that's me. 
Love is not something to be asked for. It's either there or it isn't. You get it based on what another has to give you. Asking it out of somebody like it can just be manufactured is false.


"Those who ask are those who get."

That's not the way love works. Would you sacrifice your life for someone ?

"Yes, if you want to be in friend zone."

Another nail in the coffin.

"Yes, but if the other side is shy, you will never get anywhere."

What does shyness have to do with this?

"If I'm being directed by everything you want me to do for you, how to care for you, am I an instrument, puppet , tool for your benefit or do I genuinely have a feeling driving me to do for you?

Maybe, but it doesnt make difference to me."

Maybe what? Am I a tool to your benefit or am I genuine?

"I dont, but it doesnt need to be. If someone is not sorry, at least he will be humiliated by forced apology."

Makes another nail in the coffin.


"Yes. How long do I have to wait for that? Forever?"

Makes another nail in the coffin. As far as the timing, the logic to that part is, you can decide yourself to forgive applicably. This leaves you free of grudges instead of waiting on someone else to supposedly give you a reason to.

Oh the discussion is getting deep. But I ain't Swami.


"Is it true by the decision in their mind, they've thought out the reason for apologizing versus you just giving a direction like a puppeteer?
Yes"

Another nail in the coffin.

"It doesnt need substance. I want an apology."

Substance is what makes something genuinely what it is. Are you saying you don't want an actual apology?

"Umm yeah, its those who ask who get. Even the Bible says so."

Perceive what love is. The bible teaches perceive we the love of God for he laid down his life". 

Love is action. It doesn't come on demand. You logically can't ask or demand love. That's not what love is, not true love. Just like fake laughter or fake happiness. Asking myself for happiness doesn't come that way. It's either there naturally or it isn't.


"One can have both, but its mostly the first one."

There are two different contexts. I ask someone do they love me? I'm not asking them to give me love.

If I ask do you have money, I'm not asking to give me money. One is only asking somebody do they have something. Do you get the difference now?

"No. I am just saying that asking for respect has benefits."

Do you believe it's real respect when asking for it?

Isn't respect supposed to be earned or asked for?

"Yes. "
Another nail in the coffin.

"However, currently, we are debating "asking respect vs not asking respect". We are not debating "respect vs fear".
Your position is that asking respect is illogical. I have already explained that asking respect can make people fear you, and if people fearing you is your goal, then asking respect is logical."

Ok another topic.


"As long as people are afraid, tyrants will rule. So yeah, fear is good."

Confirms a false respect. So when you want true or actual respect, don't do anything to go backwards of that.



Con
#6
I am running out of time to post, so yeah.
Round 4
Pro
#7
I yield.
Con
#8
I think I dont have much to say anymore on this topic, so yeah, if you have something to add, add it. I ran out of ideas.
Round 5
Pro
#9
I think I had more questions left you to answer but if you're totally stumped, I get it.

I accept your forfeit well.

Peace be .
Con
#10
Peace.