Instigator / Con
2
1500
rating
4
debates
25.0%
won
Topic
#5182

Can you prove God Exists?

Status
Voting

The participant that receives the most points from the voters is declared a winner.

Voting will end in:

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DD
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HH
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Parameters
Publication date
Last updated date
Type
Standard
Number of rounds
5
Time for argument
Two weeks
Max argument characters
10,000
Voting period
Six months
Point system
Winner selection
Voting system
Open
Contender / Pro
0
1300
rating
221
debates
44.8%
won
Description

No information

Round 1
Con
#1
For me it's simple. The aspect of proof would rely on the aspect of something that can validate the claim. For me the aspect of an all powerful being that can do anything because he is all powerful should be able to respond to a simple question. "CAN YOU SHOW YOURSELF". Now I just did that. Nothing appeared in front of me indicating that an all powerful god exists. So my conclusion is that an all powerful being does not exist.
Pro
#2
Proving God is very simple. 

1. God is the only one who can solve the infinity regress. 
2. Infinity regress is logically unavoidable, since either time is infinite either amount of causes are infinite.
3. Infinity regress has been solved.
C. God must exist.

1. Causes cant cause themselves.
2. "Something" cannot be the first cause
3. "Nothing" cannot be the first cause
4. First cause had to be neither "something" nor "nothing".
5. First cause had to be God.

Because God is above the laws of logic, being supernatural, he doesnt need a cause.
With powers to speed up time so that infinity passes in an instant, God solves infinity regress.

Since "nothing" only produces nothing, and "something" requires a cause, it follows that first cause had to be supernatural, neither nothing nor something.

This only leads us to some God-like being, that explains the existence of first cause, infinite regress and universal laws of logic that would otherwise have no explanation.


"William Lane Craig, who was principally responsible for re-popularizing this argument in Western philosophy, presents it in the following general form:[29]
  1. Whatever begins to exist has a cause of its existence.
  2. The universe began to exist.
  3. Therefore, the universe has a cause of its existence.
Craig analyses this cause in The Blackwell Companion to Natural Theology and says that this cause must be uncaused, beginningless, changeless, timeless, spaceless, extraordinarily powerful, and personal.[30"

"In the scholastic era, Aquinas formulated the "argument from contingency", following Aristotle in claiming that there must be something to explain why the Universe exists. Since the Universe could, under different circumstances, conceivably not exist (contingency), its existence must have a cause – not merely another contingent thing, but something that exists by necessity (something that must exist in order for anything else to exist).[18] In other words, even if the Universe has always existed, it still owes its existence to an uncaused cause,[19] Aquinas further said: "... and this we understand to be God."[20]
Aquinas's argument from contingency allows for the possibility of a Universe that has no beginning in time. It is a form of argument from universal causation. Aquinas observed that, in nature, there were things with contingent existences. Since it is possible for such things not to exist, there must be some time at which these things did not in fact exist. Thus, according to Aquinas, there must have been a time when nothing existed. If this is so, there would exist nothing that could bring anything into existence. Contingent beings, therefore, are insufficient to account for the existence of contingent beings: there must exist a necessary being whose non-existence is an impossibility, and from which the existence of all contingent beings is ultimately derived.
Aquinas' argument from contingency may also be formulated like this: if each contingently existing being considers himself Bn, then, because he exists contingently, he depends for his existence on a prior being Bn-1. Now, Bn-1 likewise, if it is contingent, depends on Bn-2. Nevertheless, this series cannot go on until Infinity. At a certain time, we will arrive at a B1, the First Being in existence, and since there is no "zeroth" Being or B0, B1 exists Necessarily, i.e. is not a contingent being. This was Aquinas' Third Way, under Question 2, Article 3 in the Summa Theologica[21]
The German philosopher Gottfried Leibniz made a similar argument with his principle of sufficient reason in 1714. "There can be found no fact that is true or existent, or any true proposition," he wrote, "without there being a sufficient reason for its being so and not otherwise, although we cannot know these reasons in most cases." He formulated the cosmological argument succinctly: "Why is there something rather than nothing? The sufficient reason ... is found in a substance which ... is a necessary being bearing the reason for its existence within itself."[22]
Leibniz's argument from contingency is one of the most popular cosmological arguments in philosophy of religion. It attempts to prove the existence of a necessary being and infer that this being is God. Alexander Pruss formulates the argument as follows:
  1. Every contingent fact has an explanation.
  2. There is a contingent fact that includes all other contingent facts.
  3. Therefore, there is an explanation of this fact.
  4. This explanation must involve a necessary being.
  5. This necessary being is God.[23]
Premise 1 is a form of the principle of sufficient reason stating that all contingently true sentences (i.e. contingent facts) have a sufficient explanation as to why they are the case. Premise 2 refers to what is known as the Big Conjunctive Contingent Fact (abbreviated BCCF), and the BCCF is generally taken to be the logical conjunction of all contingent facts.[24] It can be thought about as the sum total of all contingent reality. Premise 3 then concludes that the BCCF has an explanation, as every contingency does (in virtue of the PSR). It follows that this explanation is non-contingent (i.e. necessary); no contingency can explain the BCCF, because every contingent fact is a part of the BCCF. Statement 5, which is either seen as a premise or a conclusion, infers that the necessary being which explains the totality of contingent facts is God."

"Duns Scotus, the influential Medieval Christian theologian, created a metaphysical argument for the existence of God. Though it was inspired by Aquinas' argument from motion, he, like other philosophers and theologians, believed that his statement for God's existence could be considered separate to Aquinas'. His explanation for God's existence is long, and can be summarised as follows:[31]
  1. Something can be produced.
  2. It is produced by itself, by nothing, or by another.
  3. Not by nothing, because nothing causes nothing.
  4. Not by itself, because an effect never causes itself.
  5. Therefore, by another A.
  6. If A is first then we have reached the conclusion.
  7. If A is not first, then we return to 2).
  8. From 3) and 4), we produce another- B. The ascending series is either infinite or finite.
  9. An infinite series is not possible.
  10. Therefore, God exists.
Scotus deals immediately with two objections he can see: first, that there cannot be a first, and second, that the argument falls apart when 1) is questioned. He states that infinite regress is impossible, because it provokes unanswerable questions, like, in modern English, "What is infinity minus infinity?" The second he states can be answered if the question is rephrased using modal logic, meaning that the first statement is instead "It is possible that something can be produced."

"Depending on its formulation, the cosmological argument is an example of a positive infinite regress argument. An infinite regress is an infinite series of entities governed by a recursive principle that determines how each entity in the series depends on or is produced by its predecessor.[32] An infinite regress argument is an argument against a theory based on the fact that this theory leads to an infinite regress.[32][33] A positive infinite regress argument employs the regress in question to argue in support of a theory by showing that its alternative involves a vicious regress.[34] The regress relevant for the cosmological argument is the regress of causes: an event occurred because it was caused by another event that occurred before it, which was itself caused by a previous event, and so on.[32][35] For an infinite regress argument to be successful, it has to demonstrate not just that the theory in question entails an infinite regress but also that this regress is vicious.[32][35] Once the viciousness of the regress of causes is established, the cosmological argument can proceed to its positive conclusion by holding that it is necessary to posit a first cause in order to avoid it.[36]
A regress can be vicious due to metaphysical impossibilityimplausibility or explanatory failure.[35][37] It is sometimes held that the regress of causes is vicious because it is metaphysically impossible, i.e. that it involves an outright contradiction. But it is difficult to see where this contradiction lies unless an additional assumption is accepted: that actual infinity is impossible.[36][33][35] But this position is opposed to infinity in general, not just specifically to the regress of causes.[32] A more promising view is that the regress of causes is to be rejected because it is implausible.[36] Such an argument can be based on empirical observation, e.g. that, to the best of our knowledge, our universe had a beginning in the form of the Big Bang[36] (albeit the possibility that it existed for eternity before the Big Bang is also not strictly excluded on physics grounds alone[38]). But it can also be based on more abstract principles, like Ockham's razor (parsimony), which posits that we should avoid ontological extravagance by not multiplying entities without necessity.[39][35] A third option is to see the regress of causes as vicious due to explanatory failure, i.e. that it does not solve the problem it was formulated to solve or that it assumes already in disguised form what it was supposed to explain.[35][37][40"

Round 2
Con
#3
Your statements are all based on assumed conclusions. Can you validate your claims? 
--> God is the only one who can solve the infinity regress.  -- how do you know this - can you validate this?

Do not understand
--> Causes cant cause themselves.

What do you think this means - what's the point - if something is there it exsits. What't the point
The universe began to exist.


Gonn a leave it there your response was long and had no validity in the statements. If you could provide validity that would be great.
Pro
#4
Well, can you explain what else can solve infinity regress?
Round 3
Con
#5
Can you explain what you mean by
--> infinity regress


And please answer the questions provided. I don't like to have someone state - well why not this? I'd prefer you stick to the points made.
Pro
#6
Okay. You win.
Round 4
Con
#7
ok - so I ask questions and you quite. That's not much of a debate. Whensomeone asks for clarity - is that a problem?

Pro
#8
You won.
Round 5
Con
#9
ok - so you agree there is no proof of a god and therefore no god exists
Pro
#10
Sure, but most importantly, I agree that you won.