Instigator / Pro
4
1438
rating
6
debates
0.0%
won
Topic
#553

Viruses can't exist.

Status
Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics
Better arguments
0
6
Better sources
2
4
Better legibility
2
2
Better conduct
0
2

After 2 votes and with 10 points ahead, the winner is...

Ramshutu
Parameters
Publication date
Last updated date
Type
Standard
Number of rounds
5
Time for argument
Three days
Max argument characters
30,000
Voting period
One week
Point system
Multiple criterions
Voting system
Open
Contender / Con
14
1764
rating
43
debates
94.19%
won
Description

To prove that viruses don't exist. Answer these logic questions -
1. How did the first person to see a virus know that it was a virus without any references as to what a virus looks like?
2. How do viruses find their host if they have no legs, arms, eyes, ears, brains, sense of touch or means of locomotion?
3. How can something that is dead, suddenly come to life?
4. How can viruses survive in the atmosphere and sunlight without any walls for protection? (very fragile)
5. How does a entity (virus) that kills its host pass on its genes and what does it gain by killing the host?
6. If viruses are proteins, then why don't small insects like ants find them and eat them all?

Criterion
Pro
Tie
Con
Points
Better arguments
3 point(s)
Better sources
2 point(s)
Better legibility
1 point(s)
Better conduct
1 point(s)
Reason:

Comments have the RFD.

Criterion
Pro
Tie
Con
Points
Better arguments
3 point(s)
Better sources
2 point(s)
Better legibility
1 point(s)
Better conduct
1 point(s)
Reason:

To put it simply, this was a debate between one side constructed largely of logical assumptions and another constructed chiefly of actual evidence and support.

Pro's case largely amounts to statements about what sounds logical or illogical when it comes to disease and illness. The questions he poses from the outset are... interesting, but that's about it. None of them accomplish the goal of meeting his burden in this debate, which is to show that viruses can't exist. I'd like to emphasize that middle word: can't. Pro's goal throughout this debate seems to be aimed at introducing doubt, arguing that there are a series of alternative causes (e.g. diet and toxins) that cause all illnesses, though at best, that would only support the aim of showing that viruses do not cause the ailments he's pointing to. Can't implies that the existence of viruses is an impossibility, and while the logical tack does start down that road, Pro's efforts here largely seem to ignore evidence and just point out what he feels are logical impossibilities, regardless of what is known.

Con's case focuses entirely on what exists, and he goes into great detail regarding why Pro's alternative explanations simply do not suffice as meaningful challenges to a variety of diseases. Con points out that much of Pro's case is based on assertions that simply fail to meet any standard of proof, introducing nothing more than minimal doubt into the examples Con presents. It doesn't help that much of Con's support for the existence of viral diseases and their distinction from diet and toxins is either dropped or asserted as incorrect, rather than addressing the substance of Con's points. In particular, the point about repeated infectivity and transmission between organisms are basically dropped, both of which at least seriously challenge the notions that diet and toxins are responsible for these diseases. Much of Pro's response to direct imaging of viruses is to dismiss it as faked, though that once again sets the standard rather high for him to prove that it is true. He largely asserts this is true without support, or utilizes YouTube videos and other poorly-supported sources to make his point for him.

All of this leaves the door open for an easy Con win. He clearly shows that a virus can exist based on this evidence. Even if I buy much of Pro's logical argumentation and dismiss the evidence that Pro challenges directly, I'm still given enough reason to believe that Pro hasn't eliminated all possibility of a virus being the cause of every illness discussed in this debate. That's sufficient for me to vote Con, regardless, because if it is possible, then by definition, viruses can exist. So, even if I'm buying very little of Con's argument, any amount is sufficient to negate the resolution.

I will also award conduct to Con, as Pro repeatedly insulted him and others, calling those who believe in viruses “complete idiot[s],” calling his opponent a “dumb arse”, and stating that he has no logical capacity.

One last note. Pro says he has worked with in an electron microscope lab. I feel the need to point out that, even if this is true (it’s impossible to verify), Pro is speaking from his own authority rather than an independent one, which means any statements made based on that authority are tainted by his biases and desire to win this debate. I will say that I, too, have worked in an electron microscopy lab, and have images of my own purified virus particles (with all 11 criteria Pro listed) available if Pro is interested in seeing them, though I highly doubt he would take even that evidence seriously. My impression is that Pro’s views are so strongly held that meeting any set of criteria will always be insufficient, regardless of whether Pro himself sets them.