Instigator / Con
1453
rating
41
debates
57.32%
won
Topic
#5713

Forced Prison Labor is not only justifiable but should be implemented for every Prison

Status
Debating

Waiting for the next argument from the contender.

Round will be automatically forfeited in:

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DD
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HH
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MM
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Parameters
Publication date
Last updated date
Type
Standard
Number of rounds
3
Time for argument
Two weeks
Max argument characters
15,000
Voting period
One week
Point system
Multiple criterions
Voting system
Open
Contender / Pro
1456
rating
28
debates
58.93%
won
Description

This is a redo of a debate I had where the Pro did not participate in.

Round 1
Con
#1
Opening:
Thank you, Pro, for accepting my debate. I will start by explaining why forced prison labor cannot be justified.

First argument:

According to the 8th Amendment of the United States, all Americans are granted protection from cruel and unusual punishment. Requiring all prisons to subject their populations to hard labor would fall under the category that the 8th Amendment disallows. Thus, any law made to normalize
such treatment would be unconstitutional and cannot be justified under any American law. constitution.congress.gov/constitution/amendment-8/

Pro might argue that all the country would need to do to address that issue is to remove the 8th Amendment. While this could theoretically work, such a move would require three-fourths of the states to agree. This is especially challenging considering that, out of the 27 Amendments made in over 200 years of our history, we have only removed a total of two Amendments. Thus, what seems possible in theory is nearly impossible in reality.

Second argument:

The very idea that we should allow prisons to subject their populations to horrible, backbreaking labor is completely immoral. Such a system would undoubtedly shorten the lifespan of many prisoners. Prisoners in America are not slaves. They have fundamental rights despite being incarcerated, and they also have families who often rely on them once they are released. Implementing a system that could force them to endure back-breaking injury or other horrific trauma would not only lead to their demise but also be traumatic for their families. Moreover, it would violate their rights and liberties as human beings.

For example, when the Soviet Union implemented the Gulag system, a forced labor system to make prisoners work for the benefit of the state, over 14 million people died between 1930 and 1953. How many people in America would die from corrupt prison labor systems with equally corrupt guards abusing them simply because they think they can?en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulag

Currently, our prison systems use prisoners to work for the purpose of reform, such as working in auto shops or making license plates and other various occupations. These are not prison labor jobs, however, as they are designed to teach skills rather than exploit the prisoners. Prison labor would require prisoners to constantly work against their will, which is a cruel and inhumane system that should not be implemented.

Third argument:

Forcing prisoners to work will not lower crime rates. Many people think that the reason crime is so high is because prisons are too "soft" nowadays. However, punishment has proven time and time again to fail at reforming prisoners. Many of them are traumatized by their experiences and develop a negative attitude toward society. 

Forced prison labor would not help that. It would make it worse. Why would anyone want to be a member of a society that responds to any misconduct with unrelenting brutality? Who among us can be scarred, abandoned, and possibly killed and say: "Hey, it was my fault for committing the crime"? None of us with common sense or a sense of pride. If we want prisoners to act as human beings, we must treat them as such.


Conclusion: 

Prison labor should not be implemented in all prisons. It is a violation of the 8th Amendment, completely immoral, and puts prisoners in a position no different from modern-day slavery. America is not the Soviet Union, which sent 14 million people to their deaths for the benefit of the state. Work is meant to reform prisoners, not traumatize them into becoming worse people than they were before. No one who would not want to be abandoned, tortured, or killed should support forced prison labor in any prison, much less all of them.
Pro
#2
Arguments:

1. It's Good for the Prisoners:

Having a meaningful job to do in contrast of sitting around all day would have serious benefits to the prisoners. Studies have repeatedly shown that working improves your mental health. Working would give prisoners a sense of purpose and achievement. 

Not only would it improve mental health, but it would also provide work experience and job skills, which are incredibly valuable when being reintroduced to society. It's been shown that it increases employment after incarceration.

For these reasons, prisoners who have participated are less likely to re-offend and to get into conflicts with other inmates.

Additionally, forced labor ≠ unpaid labor. The money generated from their labors would be more than enough to provided salaries, which would create financial aid for their families and to help them when they're released.


My opponent wants to frame this as a cruel way the government would take advantage of people, but in reality it helps the people greatly.

2. It Generates Resources

This is an obvious one. We have a giant well of untapped productivity. Inmates could help offset operational costs through providing maintenance around the facility. Prisoners helping provide services and goods would create a lot of funds, which could be reinvested into the prison system or elsewhere. 

Rebuttals:

My opponent's arguments are built off of facilities, including a lot of  slippery slopes, false analogies and very hasty generalizations.

Argument One - It Violates the 8th Amendment

Throughout your argument, you paint prison labor as slavery. There are several issues with this. Just because it is forced does not mean back  breaking work, as you say. Community service is forced labor, but it's not cruel. The eight amendment is the reason that your comparison to the gulag is a false comparison fallacy, and there's no reason that we would need to repeal it, because we wouldn't be doing anything cruel or unusual, we would be doing something beneficial to the worker. 

Argument Two - Forced Labor is Cruel

This is really just an extension of your first argument.  It is a hasty generalization fallacy to say that because it's forced, it's traumatizing and inhumane. Yes, there would certainly be a risk of exploitation, but if it were being implement nationwide there would be most certainly safe guards in place.

Argument Three - It would not Lower Crime Rates

I was not saying it would, and that does not at all mitigate the other benefits associated with it.


Conclusion:

It is illogical to assume that this program would be anything like the gulag. We would have safe guards and rules in place, and if they're ever violated, then the prisoners have the right to a lawyer.

This would improve the lives of the inmates and help unburden the tax payer.
Round 2
Con
#3
Arguments:

1. meaningful Jobs rebuttal:

My opponent has made the argument that forced labor is good for prisoners because it is a better alternative and improves mental health. While I certainly agree that this argument can be true with the work provided to prisoners who work willingly, the argument itself is rendered moot since the labor in question is forced on prisoners, which has been shown to have the exact opposite effectThe Psychology of Cruelty: Recognizing Grave Mental Harm in American Prisons - Harvard Law Review

Pro also claims that the forced/unpaid labor would generate money that would benefit the prisoner and their families when they are released. However, pro should have researched before making such bold claims. If you review the studies, you will find that the money prisoners do receive is quite pitiful and will certainly do nothing for prisoners and their families when they are released. How much do incarcerated people earn in each state? | Prison Policy Initiative 

Furthermore, Pro's claim that prisoners will earn money by working unpaid labor makes no sense. Pro has tried to say that forced labor benefits many people. And that could be true if they are referring to the government and other rich elites. After all, what business can beat unpaid labor? The common man is certainly not on the receiving end of these benefits. 

2. Generating resources rebuttal: 
My opponent has attempted to argue that forced labor is beneficial, citing "untapped productivity" as a justification. Indeed, an endless supply of prisoners for labor might seem like a source of boundless manpower. Yet, this perspective overlooks the exploitation of individuals, disregarding human decency and the well-being of the workforce that the proposition seeks to subjugate. The argument appears to boil down to an indifferent stance: "They're prisoners, so it doesn't matter, and besides, it's profitable."

Arguing that it is acceptable to segregate members of society and subject them to terrible working conditions for the sake of profit is abhorrent. It contradicts the principle that all Americans are entitled to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. We cannot claim to uphold these rights if we seek justifications to strip them away. This is nothing more than segregation by another name.

3. Anyone can become a prisoner in the USA:

The only certainty in life is its uncertainty. Any event can occur to anyone at any moment. With this understanding, one must acknowledge that through an accident, wrongful actions, or even a mistaken belief, it's possible to end up in jail or prison. One might easily claim, "That could never happen to me because (insert reason)," yet the truth remains that the future is unpredictable.

With that being said, does it seem wise to endorse a brutal policy that we all might end up doing? The answer is no.  We should strive for a humane and productive system that aims to improve the human condition rather than further deteriorate it.

4. Pro's understanding of the 8th Amendment and cruelty is flawed:

Pro contends that the 8th Amendment is inapplicable as forced labor is not cruel or unusual. Yet, Pro overlooks that implementing forced prison labor would be a novel policy, likely clashing with the 8th Amendment. Indeed, a recent lawsuit targeted an Alabama prison for coercing prisoners into solitary confinement should they decline to work. In U.S. Prisons, a New Battle Over an Old Institution: Forced Labor | The Marshall Project

Threatening to put people into solitary confinement for refusing to work certainly meets the standard of cruelty that the 8th Amendment prohibits. Pro even admits that forced labor opens the door for exploitation with prisons already facing litigation for doing it when prison labor is optional. arguing that it wouldn't open once prisoners are forced to work is just illogical. Pro also concedes that this policy would not end or reduce crime.

Conclusion:

Pro's arguments do not prove why we should implement forced prison labor in all prisons. Their entire argument comes down to the short-sighted profits that can be gained from it at the expense of inmates. They try to disregard the enslavement of prisoners and the clear corruption that would ensue by falsely claiming that prisoners would receive wages that would help themselves and their families when released. unfortunately, Pro did not do their research on the topic.

Prisoners who are forced to do work against their will face physical and psychological trauma. Their pay is less than a dollar an hour. Making the whole endeavor to be no different from slavery and social segregation. Sure, there are benefits to the policy such as limitless manpower and production. However, this comes at the cost of treating prisoners with an utter lack of human decency and contradicts the very fundamentals of this country. Pro even admits that this system could certainly lead to the exploitation of inmates.

Moreover, the argument fails to consider the potential for oneself or others to be incarcerated and subjected to such inhumane conditions. We should design systems that benefit us all equally, as part of society. The belief that one will never face the consequences imposed on others is often a dangerous fallacy. Furthermore, even if we are not personally affected, can we truly take pride in our lives knowing we have established a system of abuse and inhumanity simply because we had the power or desire to do so? Certainly not. This is precisely why forced labor should never be instituted in any country.


Pro
#4
Forfeited
Round 3
Con
#5
I will not be adding another argument since my opponent forfeited the last round and did not respond to my argument.
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