Bernie Sanders is better than Hillary Clinton
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My opponent would prefer that we have this debate within the context of the 2016 election, thus we will be contextualizing this around the political climate and the candidates' respective platforms during that specific election and the theoretical presidencies it could have resulted in. This debate is specifically about who would have made a better president, if that is not clear enough.
There are two primary reasons with many sub-reasons why Hillary is worse than Bernie Sanders.
1: She is far more corrupt than him.
Hillary is a liar, a fake progressive, and a power hungry tax dollar gobbling corporate sell-out deep state shill.
This video showcases some of Hillary Clinton's many flip-flops, which prove she is a fake progressive because she was literally barely different from a Republican in the 90s and only became superficially progressive (while still being just as authoritarian) because more progressive views were becoming more popular among Democrats.
Aside from being completely fake and only saying what she thinks will get her more power, Hillary is just another status quo politician. Which basically means...she's completely fake and only says what she thinks will get her more power.
Bernie Sanders is not perfect, which I'm sure you will go to great lengths to point out, but at least he is a real progressive and will get things moving in the right (as in left) direction.
Hillary, for lack of a better way of putting this, is a high ranking member of the Illuminati. What does this mean? Well, it means she is on the side of the super billionare class, the Kissingers, the Rothschilds, the Rockefellers, all those people who control the government from behind closed doors with their huge massive stacks of money.
2: Her policies would not change things for the better as much as his would. Universal healthcare and education is common sense for starters. Hillary's pseudo-progressive pussy footing is a joke. Her policy is to fidget-fuck around with Obamacare and the shitty education system until it halfway resembles a decent system while many countries are already way ahead of us.
If Hillary became president, you would see a whole lot of rhetoric and not much change. If it was Sanders, you would see change (but still a lot of rhetoric). She would basically just be Obama with a pussy and a creepy smile.
A mainline Democrat virtue signaling about transgenders
and whatnot while she lets wall street run wild
and starts a nuclear war with Russia.
Plus Hillary coughs a lot and can't get through a campaign speech without having a seizure.
That's it? You're not even going to say something nice about your boy Bernie? Just Hillary's corrupt and moderate and then you're done? Well OK, but that's not much of an argument.
Don't be so certain. Hillary has been subjected to seven major investigations since 1992. Whatever Hillary's ethical lapses, we can be fairly confident that we have seen her worst and her worst has at least never ammounted to much that might be called criminal.Bernie hasn't had to withstand so much scrutiny so we can't be so confident.
generic ad-hominins applicable to most politicians. Got anything specific?
How is that? Bernie is not just not perfect he's also not a Democrat. Getting things moving implies legislation, which implies popular support. The Democratic Establishment owes nothing to Bernie, neither does the GOP. HIllary, like her husband, understands the value of making progress by the increments of the middle road. Progressivism implies progress and progress in a democracy is made by compromise.
My opponent would prefer that we have this debate within the context of the 2016 election, thus we will be contextualizing this around the political climate and the candidates' respective platforms during that specific election and the theoretical presidencies it could have resulted in. This debate is specifically about who would have made a better president, if that is not clear enough.Agreed & Thanks for the debate.There are two primary reasons with many sub-reasons why Hillary is worse than Bernie Sanders.That's it? You're not even going to say something nice about your boy Bernie? Just Hillary's corrupt and moderate and then you're done? Well OK, but that's not much of an argument.Well if you want me to say some nice things about Bernie, here you are:1: Bernie Sanders has a relatively clean record for a politician, with few scandals or signs of corruption.2: Bernie Sanders is not a fake progressive who is willing to fondle the balls of corporations.3: Bernie Sanders has an actual progressive platform which would bring meaningful changes.4: Bernie Sanders is not a child molester.
1: She is far more corrupt than him.Don't be so certain. Hillary has been subjected to seven major investigations since 1992. Whatever Hillary's ethical lapses, we can be fairly confident that we have seen her worst and her worst has at least never ammounted to much that might be called criminal.Bernie hasn't had to withstand so much scrutiny so we can't be so confident.First of all Bernie has never done anything to warrant criminal investigation
the fact that you think Hillary constantly being the target of criminal investigations is a good sign is concerning. Don't you think it's a little fishy that Hillary is constantly being accused of shady activity and narrowly escapes indictment every time?
I feel unpatriotic and unamerican just thinking about it.
But as for the Russia-Bernie connection, it's not as if he actually colluded with Russia, some suspected Russian propaganda trolls supported him on the internet.
As for everything else, poorly managing campaign funds is not corruption either. What is corruption is selling weapons to genocidal dictators:
and fondling the wrinkled nutsack of war criminal super-beorgiosie psychopathsKissinger if generally considered the most effective and influential Secretary of State after WW2. His policies were very consistent with the policies of his predecessor and successors yet those Statesmen are rarely criticized. The 1954 Guatemalan coup supported by John Foster Dulles, for example, saw 200,000 leftists executed compared to Pinochet's 2,200. Why is Dulles not therefore a hundred times more the war criminal then Kissinger? In a debate where the Rothschilds have already been mentioned, the principle objection to Kissinger has nothing to do with foreign policy.We do now know from Mueller's findings in USA vs the Internet Research Agency (Putin's purpose built hacker team), that Russian oligarchs strongly supported Bernie via Social Media and illegal foreign donations. Support from Russia that Bernie's campaign clearly failed to acknowledge or report as is required by law."43.By 2016, Defendants and their co-conspirators used their fictitious online personas to interfere with the 2016 U.S. presidential election. They engaged in operations primarily intended to communicate derogatory information about Hillary Clinton, to denigrate other candidates such as Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio, and to support Bernie Sanders and then-candidate Donald Trump.a.On or about February 10, 2016, Defendants and their co-conspirators internally circulated an outline of themes for future content to be posted to ORGANIZATION-controlled social media accounts. Specialists were instructed to post content that focused on “politics in the USA” and to “use any opportunity to criticize Hillary and the rest (except Sanders and Trump—we support them).” [1]Here's Bernie last year denying any Russian support and blaming Hillary for DNC hacks. [2] Were there meetings? How much Russian money was donated? How much Russian money was returned? If Sanders were POTUS, it now seems at least possible that there might still have been some kind of Mueller investigation into possible Russian collusion.We know Bernie raised and spent more money than any other 2016 primary candidate- more than Trump or Hillary. We know the Bernie 2016 got hit 3 times with FEC fines for failing to catch checks that exceeded max donor limits, was fined for taking illegal foreign donations, finded for failing to itemize millions of dollars in donations. [3]Vermont's US Attorney may have recently declined to press charges against Bernie's wife Joan for perpetrating the loan fraud that bankrupted Burlington College while she President but there seems to be little denial that it was Jane Sanders who falsified the numbers and who was forced to resign after the school failed to make even the first month's payment on an overambitious, underinsured loan. Jane also purchased $500,000 worth of woodworking classes from her daughter's business while President.Nor am I convinced that the least corrupt candidate is always the best type of leader. Kennedy and Reagan were significantly more corrupt than their opponents but they were popular and remain well-remembered despite the corruption.So let's say that the degree of Bernie's corruption is as yet an undetermined variable and also not particularly determinative in the question of presidentialness.Hillary is a liar, a fake progressive, and a power hungry tax dollar gobbling corporate sell-out deep state shill.generic ad-hominins applicable to most politicians. Got anything specific?Hillary is a liar,see Hillary's flip-flops.a fake progressive,See Hillary's pro-corporations pro-wallstreet-bankster platform.and a power hungry tax dollar gobbling corporate sell-out deep state shill.See Hillary's entire career. Hillary has proved that she will say anything to obtain more power by changing her opinion in perfect accordance with what seems popular. Hillary is in bed with wallstreet and with the deep state on every level.
This video showcases some of Hillary Clinton's many flip-flops, which prove she is a fake progressive because she was literally barely different from a Republican in the 90s and only became superficially progressive (while still being just as authoritarian) because more progressive views were becoming more popular among Democrats.This kind of flip-flop is absolutely required of any successful modern presidential candidate. Candidates must appeal to the base in the primaries, appeal to the center during the general. Let's remember that Hillary was raised Republican. She left the Republican party because of GOP racism, not because she changed her mind about small governments or big armies. Hillary is reformed Republican which is what makes her a moderate that can make a deal with the Republican caucus.Aside from being completely fake and only saying what she thinks will get her more power, Hillary is just another status quo politician. Which basically means...she's completely fake and only says what she thinks will get her more power.Circular sentence. Aside from being fake she's also fake. More generic ad-homs.Bernie Sanders is not perfect, which I'm sure you will go to great lengths to point out, but at least he is a real progressive and will get things moving in the right (as in left) direction.How is that? Bernie is not just not perfect he's also not a Democrat. Getting things moving implies legislation, which implies popular support. The Democratic Establishment owes nothing to Bernie, neither does the GOP. HIllary, like her husband, understands the value of making progress by the increments of the middle road. Progressivism implies progress and progress in a democracy is made by compromise.Democrats are not democrats, they are establishment centrists and that is exactly the problem. Bernie Sanders is not a democrat or a "democratic socialist" but technically his policies should be called "social democracy"."Middle of the road" is code for "maintaining the status quo while maintaining the illusion of progress". The one who would change the system is the one who is progressive, not the one who would serve as another paddle on the ping pong table of progress serving the ball right back to the cunts she claims to oppose who have the same exact ideology as her.
Hillary, for lack of a better way of putting this, is a high ranking member of the Illuminati. What does this mean? Well, it means she is on the side of the super billionare class, the Kissingers, the Rothschilds, the Rockefellers, all those people who control the government from behind closed doors with their huge massive stacks of money.Pro has really lost the plot at this point. The last Rockefeller in politics retired in 2015. The Rothschilds were never in politics but are famously the target of many wide-ranging anti-Semitic conspiracy theories. Pro should explain in detail the ways Hillary Clinton is "on the side of the Rothschilds." If by "Kissingers," Pro intends Henry Kissinger (another oft-hated Jew), then I would say Clinton's world view very likely overlaps with Kissinger's world view to an important degree. I don't think many Republicans would object strongly to a Clinton foreign policy modeled on Hillary's tenure as Secretary of State. That's a good thing, I think. A relatively uncontested foreign policy is an advantage for the world's last superpower.Her policies would not change things for the better as much as his would. Universal healthcare and education is common sense for starters. Hillary's pseudo-progressive pussy footing is a joke. Her policy is to fidget-fuck around with Obamacare and the shitty education system until it halfway resembles a decent system while many countries are already way ahead of us.If Bernie can't get legislation passed and Hillary can than it is her policies alone that might make a change that counts towards progress while his policies would lie unconsidered. Bernie can endorse universal health coverage all he wants but with this present Congress Bernie never gets it to the floor. Obamacare is Hillarycare to a significant degree- legislation that reworked Bob Dole healthcare proposal which was itself a reworking of Hillary's 1993 proposal. Yes, Bernie's proposal is better but it's never going nowhere so it counts for nothing. Hillary has already gotten many good health and education improvements passed and as a moderate POTUS would actually stand a chance of continued improvement.If Hillary became president, you would see a whole lot of rhetoric and not much change. If it was Sanders, you would see change (but still a lot of rhetoric). She would basically just be Obama with a pussy and a creepy smile.I'd be pretty happy voting for Obama with a pussy. Obama had one of the highest end-of-term approval ratings any president has enjoyed. He managed a number of historic crises with cool compassion, a sense of humor and yes, excellent rhetoric. Most of politics is rhetoric, that's why future politicians study debate. Pro needs to give some reason why he thinks Bernie has some agenda Mitch McConnell would be willing to consider. I don't think Bernie has anything McConnell might approve, that's what makes Bernie useless.A mainline Democrat virtue signaling about transgendersMainline good. Transgenders good. Virtue Signaling is defined as the conspicuous expression of moral values, which is also an essential test of most political campaigns. If a candidate want to be elected, some conspicuous expression of moral values is going to be required. So all this is fine and necessary.and whatnot while she lets wall street run wildYeah, but a good President doesn't want to regulate the financial sector too hard or the money for investment goes elsewhere. Any POTUS hoping to reform Wall Street must come as a fiend.and starts a nuclear war with Russia.Following the money, it is clear that Putin was terrified of Hillary as President: more terrified than Obama and certainly more terrified than Sanders. That position of fear would likely be far more effective than Bernie's grumpy Larry David impression.Plus Hillary coughs a lot and can't get through a campaign speech without having a seizure.Sexist BS. We could put Hillary in a cage with Bernie and we all know she'd kick his stoop-shouldered ass. Bernie's only 4 years older than Hillary but Bernie's parents died young 1960/1962. Hillary's mom lived 60 years longer than Bernie's mom.
Pros arguments are that Hillary is corrupt, that she was basically a Republican, and that her Policies wouldn’t change much.
Cons co need is that Hillary’s been investigated so much, there can’t be anything substantial there, and there could be with Bernie.
Con also pointed our corrupt presidents haven pretty good.
Con pointed out being centrist and mainstream isn’t bad. And as a result Hilary would be able to pass more of her agenda than Bernie.
Pros rebuttal is that Bernie hasn’t
Needed an investigation - and Hilary has.
Con argues that Bernie’s plans are actually unpopular when analyzed. He points out Bernie has been arrested, and the loan default investigation.
He points out that Hillary was being investigated by the GOP not for wrong doing, but for political reasons.
He points out weapon sales are normal.
Finally con points out that centrism is better than progressivism - as it allows legislation to be passed and goals to be met.
All this is unrefuted by pro - so arguments to con.
Conduct.
“fondling the wrinkled nutsack of war criminal super-beorgiosie psychopaths”
“Her policy is to fidget-fuck around with Obamacare and the shitty education system”
Pro is profane and rude throughout, and forfeited his round. Arguments to con.
Good debate! I liked Bernie more than Hilary in 2016, but Con made some really good points.
Pro claimed that Hillary is corrupt, a fake democrat only in it for power, and is too moderate to make changes. Their argument used a lot of Ad Hominem and conspiracy directed against her.
Con pointed convinced me that Bernie hasn't faced the same level of scrutiny as Hillary. They also convinced me of the value of small incremental change over time. The tax plan thing was a major point as well; I didn't realize Bernie's proposals came with such a massive increase in taxes.
Conduct: Pro forfeited the last half, so points to Con.
Bernie Sanders is the literal only politician in America I would vote for because he's literally the only real leftist who has a chance. Every other Democrat who might actually win is just an establishment centrist.
I like your odds
I hope neither candidate runs this country.
Ok that's fine. We can focus on 2016.
If it’s Bernie was a better candidate 2016 thenn I’m interested. Hillary’s out for 2020 & I’m not interested in who’s a better person, etc
Both, in general.
Is this 2016 or 2020?