Instigator / Con

Sir.Lancelot

1617

rating

198

debates

55.3%

won

Topic

#6124

Non-Orthodox Jews cannot find a good reason to oppose converting to Christianity.

Status

Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics

Better arguments

Better sources

Better legibility

Better conduct

After 1 vote and with 2 points ahead, the winner is...

Sir.Lancelot

Parameters

Publication date: 05.08.2025 06:59PM
Last updated date: 06.04.2025 01:05PM
Type: Rated
Number of rounds: 4
Time for argument: Three days
Max argument characters: 10,000
Voting period: Two weeks
Point system: Multiple criterions
Voting system: Open
Minimal rating: None

Contender / Pro

Mall

1382

rating

436

debates

45.41%

won

Description

I am a neutral side, neither jewish nor christian. But I am arguing the Con side of this position.

(This debate is inspired by AdaptableRatman, but anyone is welcome to accept.)

Round 1

Sir.Lancelot

05.11.2025 09:35PM

Con

I will skip this first round to give Pro a headstart

Mall

05.14.2025 01:17PM

Pro

Thank you.

Non-Orthodox Jews cannot find a good reason to oppose converting to Christianity.

Non-orthodox Jews which are not necessarily individuals that are such outwardly, normally visible and physical .

But you can say are such inwardly.

In the book of Romans 2

"28 A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical.

29 No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God."

So something there in the heart as opposed to a lineage, heritage or blood which is conventionally or in orthodox perceived to be identifying as a Jew.

A so called Chinese man, a Mexican, a Jamaican, an African, a Russian, a Japanese, a swedish person, polish, etc., can be a Jew .

What kind of Jew ? Not a an orthodox one. One that has been affected in the heart.

It's in the heart where the change occurs. What caused the change?

The spirit. It was the spirit of God that gave the individual a new heart . Now God made it so in this heart in which a person will walk and follow what God has put.

Which basically is Holiness. Scripture say follow holiness.

See when these non Orthodox Jews have a changed heart to follow holiness which they'd define Christianity as, they'd have no reason, cause, let alone good, to oppose converting to it.

This is not as much as I thought I was going to say.

It's pretty plain.

Plus I'm up against the clock.

Scripture say "Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death".

There is no sin in holiness. Now for you and the audience to look more into the topic of holiness, check out the debate "Did God/JESUS invent Christianity?"

From website address:

https://youtube.com/@j.talkstothepeopleradio6008

For questions and answers about what was said, respond here or send a message.

To arrange a live discussion over discord, send a message.

Round 2

Sir.Lancelot

05.17.2025 01:17PM

Con

Forfeited

Mall

05.20.2025 12:02AM

Pro

I rest my case.

Round 3

Sir.Lancelot

05.20.2025 12:21AM

Con

Thank you, Pro.

I shall wrap up my case this round with six reasons.:

According to Judaic scripture, the messiah was supposed to be from The Tribe of Judah, a descendant of King David and Solomon. Jesus was not.
The Jews were to be collected and gathered to Israel. Jesus failed to do this.
The Third Temple of Jerusalem has yet to be rebuilt, implying the messiah has not come. Which means Jesus failed.
The messiah needs to establish world peace. Unfulfilled prophecy means Jesus did not fulfill his duty.
The messiah is to rule as king, which Jesus did not do.
There was no worldwide knowledge of God which is a requirement for the messiah and remains unfulfilled.

All of these are judaic scripture, predating the writings of the bible. Making them canon.

According to christianity, this makes Jesus seem like an incompetent messiah.

Which is sufficient for non- orthodox jews to see Jesus as a non-messiah.

Therefore non-orthodox jews do not have to convert to the religion that belongs to a false messiah.

Vote Con!

https://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/videos/six-reasons-why-jews-don-t-believe-in-jesus

Mall

05.20.2025 05:52PM

Pro

I guess that's the debate. The opposing side didn't refute what I said.

So I guess we both said what we said.

The audience can play favorites as usual.

Round 4

Sir.Lancelot

05.20.2025 06:08PM

Con

Extend arguments and sources.

Mall

05.20.2025 09:00PM

Pro

Case closed.
To the opposing side, any questions of what I said, any interest, let me know.

Mall

06.04.2025 01:05PM

"AdaptableRatman
05.17.2025 05:08PM

#6
Is Mall gonna win this? LOL"

Disclaimer : Regardless of the setup for voting win or lose, The aim of this interaction, Is for those that view it, Learn and or take away anything that will amount to any constructive value ultimately. So that counts as anything that'll cause one to reconsider an idea, Understand a subject better, Help build a greater wealth of knowledge getting closer to truth. When either of us has accomplished that with any individual here, That's who the victor of the debate becomes.

So just a matter of agreement for either side plus interpretation.

Sir.Lancelot

05.18.2025 01:24AM

no.

AdaptableRatman

05.17.2025 09:08PM

Is Mall gonna win this? LOL

rosends

05.14.2025 08:55PM

This is a ridiculous topic
It demonstrates a lack of understanding of Judaism in general and the denominations within it in particular.
Any person, including any and every Jew can have a reason not to convert - he or she doesn't believe in the validity, authenticity, or utility of Jesus or the Christian writings.

Savant

05.08.2025 09:33PM

-->

@AdaptableRatman

>any voter can consider any reason good

Well, they're supposed to vote based on who makes the better argument. Arguing over whether something is good or not is one of the most common categories of debate on this site.

AdaptableRatman

05.08.2025 07:43PM

-->

@Savant

any voter can consider any reason good.

Fear of old covenant still being active is a huge reason meaning Christianity would be only for gentiles, if correct.

Savant

05.08.2025 07:41PM

-->

@AdaptableRatman

I'm guessing "good reasons" is the crux of the debate.

AdaptableRatman

05.08.2025 07:35PM

Obviously they can have reasons.

AdaptableRatman

05.20.2025 09:33PM

Criterion

Con

Tie

Pro

Points

Better arguments

3 point(s)

Better sources

2 point(s)

Better legibility

1 point(s)

Better conduct

1 point(s)

Reason:

Both sides were poor debaters in this debate. Let me be very clear on that.

Con intentionally forfeited 3 out of 4 Rounds. I don't care the he posted 2 of the 3. He really FF'd. The problem is so did Pro but with 1 Round less of intent.

Con basically plagiarised a website using copy paste to make his arguments. That website blatantly is geared towards Talmudic Jews and at the very least severely Conservative ones.

https://jewsforjudaism.org/about-jews-for-judaism

If you scroll down to the images with the bearded men it blatabtky is an Orthodoxy movement behind the website.

Pro noticed 0 of this. Con used literal Talmudic reasoning and Orthodox are among the Jews that hold Talmud, written after Christ was around, to dismiss hom based on redefinitions of what the Messiah had to fulfil or ignoring that Christianity did spread around the world and did hell world peace eventually happen.

The fact Pro dropped all of this and says now it is time for Voters to 'pick favourites when he had 2 different Rounds still left to reply to Con, loses the debate for him.

As for Pro's case, it seems he is trying to explain how Christianity opens up Judaism's faith and heaven to gentiles. I don't really know what to do with that since he doesn't address the fact that in Round 3 of 4, Con raises some reasons to dismiss Jesus as the Jewish prophecied Messiah (but these were mostly Talmudic reasons which is what is so utterly irritating).

There is nothing we can really do but vote arguments to Con. I don't think copy-pasting ones entire constructive out of a solo linked source should win the sources point.