Instigator / Con
1382
rating
435
debates
45.4%
won
Topic
#6240
Christianity was established by Father God, Jesus Christ according to the scripture.
Status
Debating
Waiting for the next argument from the contender.
Round will be automatically forfeited in:
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Parameters
- Publication date
- Last updated date
- Type
- Standard
- Number of rounds
- 5
- Time for argument
- One week
- Max argument characters
- 30,000
- Voting period
- Six months
- Point system
- Winner selection
- Voting system
- Open
Contender / Pro
1500
rating
1
debates
100.0%
won
Description
Disclaimer : Regardless of the setup for voting win or lose, The aim of this interaction, Is for those that view it, Learn and or take away anything that will amount to any constructive value ultimately. So that counts as anything that'll cause one to reconsider an idea, Understand a subject better, Help build a greater wealth of knowledge getting closer to truth. When either of us has accomplished that with any individual here, That's who the victor of the debate becomes.
Questions on the topic, send a message.
Round 1
Thank you very much, thank you for taking the time out.
Somewhere or another this individual apparently on the opposing side connected with me on this subject.
So after a brief interaction, I believe this person believes Christianity is of God of the scriptures and hasn't realized it was a complete man made invention.
It was not from God. I have a video regarding this subject of myself and another discussing this subject. I'll pass along that information in a subsequent round.
But people often say Christian God, the God of Christianity or whatever.
No such God. At least according to the scripture. Throughout this discussion, we are going to see and realize the derivative of all these things truly.
It came from man. Then man starting calling God the Christian God.
Many folks don't realize what they say when they say it.
I have learned that by the scripture it says by your words you are justified and by your words you are condemned.
Now if you say Christianity came from God, those are words that you are justified in saying or not.
Particularly we're talking about God of the scriptures, biblical scripture. The scriptures that are referred to as God breathed.
So I'll be looking for the opposing side which is the affirmative side to present and discuss the opposing points, because I say the scripture will not support this, that Christianity was established by God.
Christianity was invented by man and as the scripture says "Behold, this only have I found: that God made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions".
It says "This only have I found: God created mankind upright,
but they have gone in search of many schemes.”
So we have instances in scripture where we have coined or "invented" labels for other men by men such as those at the place of Antioch.
So I'll digress and turn it over to the affirmative side.
Readers , ladies and gentlemen of the audience,
friends and enemies and opposers.....
Thank you so much, you seem really kind and that pleases me. I will first begin by showing the central Christian beliefs, and will then show verses in the Bible that approve of said beliefs. It is called the Nicene Creed, and contrary to popular belief, DOES NOT invent anything. It is just a public proclamation of what we as Christians believe. If anything goes against this Creed, it is known as heresy.
"We believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
begotten from the Father before all ages,
God from God,
Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made;
of the same essence as the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven;
he became incarnate by the Holy Spirit and the virgin Mary,
and was made human.
He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered and was buried.
The third day he rose again, according to the Scriptures.
He ascended to heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again with glory
to judge the living and the dead.
His kingdom will never end.
And we believe in the Holy Spirit,
the Lord, the giver of life.
He proceeds from the Father and the Son,
and with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified.
He spoke through the prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic church.
We affirm one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look forward to the resurrection of the dead,
and to life in the world to come. Amen."
I will now dissect each line, showing where it is in scripture.
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"We believe in one God, the Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible."
Deuteronomy 6:4 – “Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.”
Genesis 1:1 – “In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.”
Colossians 1:16 – “For by Him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible…”
"And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, begotten from the Father before all ages,"
John 1:1–2 – “In the beginning was the Word... and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God.”
John 3:16 – “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son…”
Colossians 1:15 – “He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.”
"God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made; of the same essence as the Father."
Hebrews 1:3 – “He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of His nature…”
John 1:14 – “And the Word became flesh... the glory as of the only Son from the Father…”
Philippians 2:6 – “Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage…”
"Through him all things were made."
John 1:3 – “All things were made through Him, and without Him was not any thing made that was made.”
1 Corinthians 8:6 – “…one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.”
Hebrews 1:2 – “…through whom also He created the world.”
"For us and for our salvation, he came down from heaven;"
John 6:38 – “For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me.”
Luke 19:10 – “For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”
1 Timothy 1:15 – “Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners…”
"He became incarnate by the Holy Spirit and the virgin Mary, and was made human."
Luke 1:35 – “The Holy Spirit will come upon you… therefore the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God.”
Matthew 1:23 – “Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son…”
John 1:14 – “The Word became flesh and dwelt among us…”
"He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate; he suffered and was buried."
Luke 23:23–24 – “But they were urgent, demanding with loud cries that he should be crucified. And their voices prevailed.”
Isaiah 53:5 – “He was pierced for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities…”
Matthew 27:59–60 – “And Joseph took the body and wrapped it in a clean linen shroud and laid it in his own new tomb…”
"The third day he rose again, according to the Scriptures."
1 Corinthians 15:3–4 – “…that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures… he was raised on the third day…”
Luke 24:6–7 – “He is not here, but has risen…”
Psalm 16:10 – “For you will not abandon my soul to Sheol, or let your holy one see corruption.”
"He ascended to heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father."
Acts 1:9 – “He was lifted up, and a cloud took Him out of their sight.”
Mark 16:19 – “Jesus… was taken up into heaven and sat down at the right hand of God.”
Hebrews 1:3 – “…After making purification for sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high…”
"He will come again with glory to judge the living and the dead."
Matthew 25:31–32 – “When the Son of Man comes in his glory… he will separate people one from another…”
Acts 10:42 – “He is the one appointed by God to be judge of the living and the dead.”
2 Timothy 4:1 – “Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead…”
"His kingdom will never end."
Luke 1:33 – “And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end.”
Daniel 7:14 – “His dominion is an everlasting dominion…”
Revelation 11:15 – “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he shall reign forever and ever.”
"And we believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life."
2 Corinthians 3:17 – “Now the Lord is the Spirit…”
Genesis 2:7 – “…God…breathed into his nostrils the breath of life…”
Romans 8:2 – “The Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus…”
"He proceeds from the Father and the Son (idk about filioqe, but whatever), and with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified."
John 15:26 – “When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father…”
John 16:14 - "He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you."
Revelation 22:1 – “…the river of the water of life, bright as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb.”
"He spoke through the prophets."
2 Peter 1:21 – “For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.”
Hebrews 1:1 – “God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways.”
Nehemiah 9:30 – “You warned them by your Spirit through your prophets…”
"We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic church."
Ephesians 4:4–5 – “There is one body and one Spirit… one Lord, one faith, one baptism.”
1 Peter 2:9 – “You are a chosen race… a holy nation…”
Acts 2:42 – “They devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching…”
"We affirm one baptism for the forgiveness of sins."
Acts 2:38 – “Repent and be baptized… for the forgiveness of your sins…”
Romans 6:4 – “We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death…”
Ephesians 4:5 – “One Lord, one faith, one baptism…”
"We look forward to the resurrection of the dead, and to life in the world to come. Amen."
John 11:25 – “I am the resurrection and the life…”
1 Corinthians 15:52 – “…the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.”
Revelation 21:1–4 – “…a new heaven and a new earth… death shall be no more…”
So no, the Bible affirms all the core Christian beliefs. In fact, it CONDENMS anyone who goes against them and teaches otherwise:
Galatians 1:8-9 - "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!"
Round 2
I really hope this is not a short discussion.
"So no, the Bible affirms all the core Christian beliefs. In fact, it CONDENMS anyone who goes against them and teaches otherwise:"
Feel free to check out a video on this discussion on the J. Talks to the people YouTube channel.
Direct message for details.
I told that person as I will say here.
First I'll say that by your words you are justified.
Out of all the scripture that was given, not one said, not one verse said, God established Christianity.
That was invented by man. Being called Christian was invented by man. It's what people called other people in scripture.
They were called this at Antioch. Called by who?
Not by God . Not by Jesus.
This is very important to take heed where the scripture stops and when man starts talking.
Man added the "-ity". This is not even in scripture.
What did God call his people?
We go to Matthew 5 and this is where I took the unlearned "Christian" to and tried to speak on things he didn't know . Scripture say speak on what you know.
In verse nine, what does JESUS call the peacemakers
"9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God."
So first if you are a peacemaker, you are called according to scripture a child of God or being among the children of God.
You'd be a peacemaker because it's the way of God, the way of holiness.
Let's go to Hebrews 12:14.
It says " Follow peace with all men, and holiness".
So being a peacemaker you are following holiness.
The scriptures say in Romans 8, for those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God.
So you are led by a Holy God according to the scripture the Father is the holy Spirit. Just throwing that there to clash with that whether the opposing side disagrees.
According to John 15 and 16, this spirit guides you.
That is the Father. The scriptures teach that HE is Holy and so His children are to be that.
That which is born of spirit is spirit and that which is born of flesh is flesh, see. That which is born of God cannot sin.
These people are called the children of God according to the scripture.
Whom also is referred to as holy.
We read in 1 Peter 2 :
"9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;"
So an holy nation of peculiar people. We can't read here or anywhere people are organized or an organization of Christianity or an organized sect of Christianity.
So being that we can't read this here, where is this learned?
While Paul received through the revelation of Christ, other men received the words of other men.
Not just Christianity, but Pentecostal and Mormonism and Baptist and seven day Adventist and church of the latter day saints, Catholic, Roman Catholic, Presbyterian, Methodist, Martin Lutheran, Calvinist, Armenianist, preterist and just schemes and inventions one after another as we read in Ecclesiastes 7, God made us plain and simple, but we have made ourselves very complicated.
That God made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions.
I have discovered that God made people upright, but they pursued many schemes.
Every last one of those sects mentioned is an example of a scheme. Something God made simple and man comes, complicates it .
God confounds the very wise with the simple things. Scripture say what can be done after the King I believe.
What can you do after Christ done established the church?
Come up with another denomination, faction and call folks christian. Then complicate it with Christianity. Where many things are conflated and confused mixing the world, the secular with spiritual and heavenly things.
Many schemes, many ways where God established just one way and made it simple.
God did not establish a way of Mormonism, the way of Jehovah witness, the way of Christianity, even the way of Christian and Baptist.
He established the way of Holiness.
Ephesians 1 and starting at verse 4:
"4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will"
Here we go again with children . It says " unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ". Jesus just called this out in Matthew 5.
So these are the peacemakers, the faithful in Christ, faithful in God predestined to be that . So when we talk about what came first from where, it was predestined according to words believed to be inspired not by man nor the will of man .
God did not predestine folks to Christianity or set this to be before the foundation of the world.
Jesus said he would build his church. Not his Christianity. He said follow him, not Christianity.
That is what man decided to call it. I'll give him that credit, that honor. Give the honor due according to the book .
Jesus said follow him . He is the way. What way is that?
Let's get the book of Isaiah chapter 35
"8 And an highway shall be there, and a way, and it shall be called The way of holiness"
According to the scripture Jesus is that way which is the way back to the Father. Back to holiness where the Father himself told you to be, holy.
This is what becomes of reconciliation that the scripture teaches. Those that are the holy children of God have that peace so they see the Lord in peace.
Without holiness no man shall see the Lord. Rightly divided as the scripture say, that is in regard to seeing the Lord in peace. That would be the difference and division between those that still will stand before the throne of judgement.
That's it for now. Scripture say by your words you are justified and if any man speak let him speak as the oracles of God so let God be true and every man a liar.
No where will you find Christianity established in the scriptures. You will hear men calling what is in the apostle's doctrine Christianity. You don't even have the apostles preaching that and according to the book, when you hear the apostles, you hear Jesus.
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Round 3
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Round 4
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Round 5
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