How to live life on age 18-20?, This is not a debate.

Yea I will leave it at that. The data wasn’t responded to so this was a non response lol! For more personal talk outside of going back and forth my new degree path can make six figures. I would just have to get a different job other than being a professor lol (I’m torn on that. I may go towards the money route, but part of me wants to be a professor as well)! I would have to work mainly as a researcher because it is more of a science background lol (I really would make the money in the private sector for what I do lol)! Again if you want to better understand data I will give you some readings (Again this isn’t an insult, but it is an offer because I feel you would understand stuff better. My new degree is research/stats centered, so I have a lot of material I could show if interested). The only thing that I wanted to reply to which is why I came back was the long winded response. We are on a debate platform having a discussion. That is literally what the site is for lol! If we were sitting back having a beer it would be a different vibe lol (I’m more a whiskey guy lol! Burbon is definitely the way to go lol)

நீங்கள் சிறுவயதையும், ஆண்மையின் எல்லையையும் கடந்து நிற்கிறீர்கள்.

நீங்கள் என்னிடம் கேட்டீர்கள் – 18 வயது வந்தபோது என்ன உணர்ந்தேன் என்று.
நான் எதையும் உணரவில்லை. ஏனென்றால் நான் இன்னும் உருவாகிக்கொண்டிருந்தேன்.

18 என்பது வெறும் எண் அல்ல. அது ஒரு சட்டபூர்வமான மாயை.
ஒரு நாட்காட்டியில் ஒரு தேதி மாறியது மட்டும் நமக்குள் ஆண்மையை உருவாக்காது.
ஒரு ஆணாக நீங்கள் உருவாகும் தருணம் என்னவென்றால் – உங்கள் வாழ்க்கையின் முழுமையான ராணுவக் கட்டுப்பாட்டையும், வெற்றியும், தோல்வியும், எண்ணங்களையும், உணர்வுகளையும், நேரத்தையும், முடிவுகளையும் நீங்கள் பொறுப்பேற்கும் தருணமே அது.

நான் என் 18வது பிறந்த நாளைக் கொண்டாடவில்லை.
நான் படித்தேன். திட்டமிட்டேன். பலவீனமானவர்களிடமிருந்து விலகினேன்.
நான் சிஸ்டம்கள் கட்டினேன்.
ஏனென்றால் இந்த உலகம் உங்களைப் பற்றி பராமரிக்காது.
நீங்கள் பயனுள்ளதாக இருக்கிறீர்களா, ஆபத்தானவரா, இல்லையெனில் வீணாகவா இருக்கிறீர்கள் என்பதையே அது பார்கிறது.

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உங்கள் கடந்த காலம் வெறும் உயிர்வாழ்தலுக்கானது. உங்கள் எதிர்காலம் கட்டுப்பாட்டுக்கானதாக இருக்க வேண்டும்.

நீங்கள் சொல்கிறீர்கள்: நான் நோக்கமின்றி வாழ்ந்தேன். பரவாயில்லை.
அதுவே பெரும்பாலானவர்கள் வாழும் வழி.
ஆனால் இப்போது, உங்கள் பயண முறை மாற வேண்டும்.
இனி, உங்கள் வாழ்க்கையில் நீங்கள் ஒரு பயணி அல்ல. நீங்கள் கட்டிடக் கலைஞர்.

மதிப்பெண்களை மறந்துவிடுங்கள். புகழை மறந்துவிடுங்கள்.
ஒரு பிரச்சினையைத் தேர்ந்தெடுங்கள், அதைத் தீர்க்கவே உங்கள் வாழ்க்கையை அர்ப்பணியுங்கள்.

நீங்கள் என்ஜினியரிங்கைப் பற்றி பேசுகிறீர்கள். நல்லது.
அது ஒரு சக்தி. ஆனால் வெறும் சம்பளத்திற்காகவோ பாதுகாப்பிற்காகவோ அதைத் தொடர்ந்து செல்லாதீர்கள்.
உங்கள் திறமையை ஒரு ஆயுதமாக மாற்றுங்கள்.
சமயத்தை வீணாக்காமல் உங்கள் சக்தியை பெருக்கக்கூடிய லீவரேஜ் உருவாக்குங்கள் – கருவிகள், சிஸ்டம்கள், கோடுகள், கண்டுபிடிப்புகள், நெட்வொர்க்குகள்.

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நோக்கம் கிடைப்பது இல்லை. உருவாக்கப்பட வேண்டியது.

நோக்கம் என்பது தேடிக்கொண்டு கண்டுபிடிக்க வேண்டிய புதையல் அல்ல.
அது உங்களால் உருவாக்கப்படும் ஒரு ஆயுதம். அழுத்தத்தால், வெளிப்பாட்டால், வலியால், செயலால்.

தெளிவுக்கு காத்திருக்காதீர்கள். செயல் மேற்கொள்ளுங்கள். தொடர்ந்தும் செய்யுங்கள்.
தெளிவு என்பது நகர்வுக்குப் பின் வருகிறது.
பிழையான கனவுகளைக் கொளுத்துங்கள். ஒரு உண்மையான விஷயத்தைத் தேர்ந்தெடுக்கவும்.
அதில் உங்களை முழுமையாக தொலைத்துவிடுங்கள்.
பின் உங்களை முந்தைய நிலையில் அறிந்தவர்கள் கூட உங்களை இனி அடையாளம் காண முடியாது.

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என் குணம்? கொடூரமான ஒழுக்கம். அலுப்பற்ற ஆர்வம். முறையான சிந்தனை.

நான் யார் என்பதை “கண்டுபிடிக்கவில்லை”.
நான் யார் என்பதை நான் உருவாக்கினேன்.
ஒவ்வொரு பழக்கம், ஒவ்வொரு கட்டுப்பாடும், ஒவ்வொரு கடுமையான முடிவும், எனது அடுத்த பதிப்பைக் கட்டியது.

Victor Vitalis என்பது ஒரு பிறவிக் கொடையாக இல்லை.
அது ஒரு கட்டுமானம். ஒரு ஆயுதம்.

நீங்கள் குணம் வேண்டும் என்று சொல்கிறீர்கள்?
அப்படியெனில் உங்கள் சொற்கள் சட்டமாக இருக்கட்டும்.
நீங்கள் சொல்வது எதுவும் செய்து முடிக்கவும்.
முடிவடையும் வரை தொடரவும்.
முக்கியமானதை அளவிடுங்கள்.
தடைகளை புற்றுநோயைப் போலவே வெட்டிவிடுங்கள்.
பழைய உங்களை அழிக்கவும், புதிய சக்தியாக உருவெடுக்கவும்.

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உங்கள் பாடுகள் பயிற்சி. அதை உபயோகிக்கவும்.

நீங்கள் கேட்கிறீர்கள்: உங்கள் பாதையைத் தேர்வுசெய்வதற்குப் பிற்பாடு என்ன சிரமங்களை எதிர்கொண்டீர்கள்?

பயம், தனிமை, குழப்பம், வறுமை – எல்லாவற்றையும் சந்தித்தேன்.
ஆனால் அதையெல்லாம் எரிபொருளாக மாற்றினேன்.
நீங்களும் அப்படியே செய்ய வேண்டும்.

உங்களை மந்தமாக்கும் எல்லாவற்றையும் – நிதிச் சுமை, குடும்ப அழுத்தம், சோர்வு –
அவை உங்கள் அழுத்தக் கூடம் (crucible).
அழுக்கத்தை நீங்கள் கட்டுப்படுத்த வேண்டும், இல்லையெனில் அது உங்களை அழிக்கும்.

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இறுதி கட்டளைகள்:

1. கனவுகளைக் கொன்றுவிடுங்கள். ஒரு விஷயத்தைத் தேர்ந்தெடுக்கவும். அதில் ஆழமாக சென்று விடுங்கள்.

2. சிஸ்டம்கள் உருவாக்குங்கள். படிப்பு, சிந்தனை, உடல் நலம், பணம் ஆகியவற்றிற்கு.

3. உங்கள் உள்ளீடுகள் மற்றும் வெளிப்பாடுகளை கண்காணிக்கவும். எது செயல்படுகிறது என்பதை எப்போதும் அறிந்து கொள்ளுங்கள்.

4. போராளிகளால் உங்களை சுற்றியிருங்கள். இயக்கத்தில் இல்லாதவர்கள் குறைக்கப்பட வேண்டும்.

5. எல்லாவற்றையும் பதிவு செய்யுங்கள். உங்கள் வெற்றிகள், தோல்விகள், உங்களின் தந்திரங்கள்.

6. ஒருபோதும் காத்திருக்காதீர்கள். காத்திருப்பது என்பது சாவு. செயல் செய்யுங்கள். கற்றுக்கொள்ளுங்கள். சரிசெய்யுங்கள். முன்னேறுங்கள்.

Arena-வில் உங்களை வரவேற்கிறேன்.
உங்கள் கடந்த காலத்தை எரித்து விடுங்கள்.
உங்கள் உச்சத்துக்கான ஏறத்தொடங்குங்கள்.

— Victor Vitalis

I will write in tamil

To Wylted : I think you confused with me, I am an Indian , in India there are several languages, and in our state we speak Tamil, Idk Hindi. :),

आप बचपन और मर्दानगी की सीमा पर खड़े हैं।

आपने मुझसे पूछा कि मैंने 18 की उम्र में क्या महसूस किया।
मैंने कुछ नहीं महसूस किया। क्योंकि मैं अभी बना नहीं था।

18 एक रस्म है। एक कानूनी झूठ। आप एक मर्द तब बनते हैं जब आप अपनी ज़िंदगी की पूरी रणनीतिक ज़िम्मेदारी स्वीकार करते हैं—अपनी जीत, अपनी हार, अपना दिमाग, अपनी भावनाएं, अपना समय, अपने नतीजे।

मैंने 18 का जश्न नहीं मनाया। मैंने पढ़ाई की। योजना बनाई। कमजोर लोगों से खुद को अलग किया। सिस्टम बनाए। क्योंकि दुनिया को फर्क नहीं पड़ता कि आप वयस्क बनने को लेकर उत्साहित हैं या नहीं। फर्क पड़ता है कि आप उपयोगी हैं, खतरनाक हैं, या महत्वहीन।

आपका अतीत सिर्फ जिंदा रहने का था। आपका भविष्य कमांड में होना चाहिए।

आप कहते हैं कि आप बिना उद्देश्य के जीते रहे। कोई बात नहीं। ज्यादातर लोग ऐसा ही करते हैं। लेकिन अब आपको मोड बदलना होगा। कोई और बहाव नहीं। कोई और कल्पना नहीं। अब आप अपनी ज़िंदगी में यात्री नहीं हैं। अब आप आर्किटेक्ट हैं।

अंकों को भूल जाइए। प्रतिष्ठा को भूल जाइए। वो समस्या चुनिए जिसे हल करने में आप अपना जीवन लगाएँगे।

आपने इंजीनियरिंग की बात की। ये अच्छा है। इंजीनियरिंग ताकत है। लेकिन सिर्फ सुरक्षा या सैलरी के लिए मत दौड़िए। ऐसी महारत बनाइए जो शोर को चीर दे। लीवरेज बनाइए—टूल्स, सिस्टम, कोड, आविष्कार, नेटवर्क—जो आपकी ताकत को बढ़ाएँ बिना आपका समय खाएं।

उद्देश्य पाया नहीं जाता। उसे डिज़ाइन किया जाता है।

उद्देश्य कोई खोया हुआ खजाना नहीं है जिसे ढूंढना है। वो एक तलवार है जिसे आपको घिसना है। दबाव से। एक्सपोजर से। पीड़ा से। काम से।

स्पष्टता का इंतज़ार मत कीजिए। काम कीजिए। लगातार। स्पष्टता कदमों के बाद आती है। कल्पनाओं को जला दीजिए। एक असली चीज़ चुनिए। फिर उसमें इतना गहराई से उतर जाइए कि आप अपने पुराने रूप को पहचान ही न पाएं।

मेरा चरित्र? निर्दयी अनुशासन। असीम जिज्ञासा। प्रणालीगत सोच।

मैंने "खोजा" नहीं कि मैं कौन हूं। मैंने बनाया कि मैं कौन हूं।
हर आदत, हर रूटीन, हर कठिन निर्णय ने अगले संस्करण को आकार दिया।
Victor Vitalis नाम कोई जन्मसिद्ध अधिकार नहीं है। यह एक निर्माण है। एक हथियार।

आप चरित्र चाहते हैं? तो अपनी बात को कानून बनाइए। जो कहें, उसे करें। जो शुरू करें, उसे खत्म करें। जो मायने रखता है, उसे मापें। ध्यान भंग करने वाली चीजों को कैंसर की तरह काट फेंकिए। खुद को इतना बदल डालिए कि आपको जानने वाला कोई भी व्यक्ति आपको पहचान न पाए।

आपकी कठिनाइयाँ प्रशिक्षण हैं। उनका उपयोग कीजिए।

आप पूछते हैं कि अपने रास्ते को चुनते समय मैंने किन संघर्षों का सामना किया।
मैंने डर, अकेलापन, असमर्थता, गरीबी—सबका सामना किया। लेकिन मैंने उन्हें ईंधन बना दिया।
आपको भी वही करना होगा।

जो भी आपको धीमा करता है—पैसे की कमी, पारिवारिक दबाव, थकावट—वही आपकी भट्ठी है। अराजकता पर विजय पाएं, या अराजकता द्वारा पराजित हो जाएं। आपके पास सिर्फ दो विकल्प हैं।

अंतिम आदेश:

कल्पना का अंत करो। एक चीज़ चुनो। उसमें गहराई से जाओ।

सिस्टम बनाओ। पढ़ाई के लिए। सोचने के लिए। स्वास्थ्य के लिए। पैसे के लिए।

इनपुट और आउटपुट को ट्रैक करो। हमेशा जानो कि क्या काम करता है।

घातक लोगों से घिरो। जो मिशन पर नहीं हैं, उन्हें कम करो।

सब कुछ डॉक्यूमेंट करो। अपनी जीत, अपनी हार, अपनी रणनीति।

कभी इंतज़ार मत करो। इंतज़ार मौत है। काम करो। सीखो। समायोजित करो। आगे बढ़ो।

Arena में आपका स्वागत है। अपने अतीत को जला दो।
अपना आरोहण शुरू करो।

—Victor Vitalis

I think am going to stop you at the first post because the website i linked to cites where the data comes from, I have seen it in multiple studies and you are comparing teacher IQs to all degree holders and determining it means something. You admitted that their IQs were on the low end (average is low btw since the average person is an idiot) and I compared to degrees smart people pursue like engineering or physics.

Bro your degree is easy and you know it. It's why you don't get paid much and no a PHD to get a professorship is not going to help either because all PHD grass are pursuing those positions as their PHD is barely useful in any non academic setting (AKA real jobs)

My advise is to drop this career path and just go become a welder or something. You'll make more, have less debt and I would just advise you not to be long winded around blue collar folks

(For Wylted). I may or may not respond past this because I do want to focus on this debate I have here. I do appreciate the discussion lol! If you do want to debate at some point that is still on the table. I just have some research stuff to focus on so I may get distracted. I may send a friend request so we can talk at a further time lol

For Wylted- sorry there was so much to say so I had to chop it up lol! The Refrences are below
Refrences
https://guides.lib.uconn.edu/exploreinfo/peerreview
https://publichealth.berkeley.edu/articles/spotlight/research/black-students-are-punished-more-often
https://publichealth.berkeley.edu/articles/spotlight/research/black-students-are-punished-more-often
https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/abs/in-the-know/iq-only-reflects-a-persons-socioeconomic-status/02476B81A2DF0B958E780D90C27CDFAA
https://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2413&context=articles
https://www.fau.edu/newsdesk/articles/incarceration-fathers-sons-study.php

(For Wylted) Crime analogy wasn’t meant to actually be a debate between country crime but Europe conquered a lot of the world lol! Blaming Mexico for not being on the same level as say the UK, the U.S., Canada, and the Scandinavian countries is interesting. You can’t really copy and paste if you are physically behind these countries. Also there are other factors that can be listed which keep nations there such as governmental stuff that may or may not be out of the people’s control depending on the country one lives in. Granted this was supposed to be an analogy and when you do give all the pieces it rings true still. This actually even rings true when comparing first world countries to some degree. The point was it wasn’t based on skin color but other factors such as poverty, people in charge, and educational availability.

You mentioned social scientists try to overcomplicate confounding variables. Simply put this is basic stats. ANCOVA and multiple regression are typical methods and they use this. It is a basic stats principle (Field, 2018).

You mentioning that that does it matter why black kids have a lower IQ compared to white kids, and this is where liberals f up is weird lol! First off again I’m not liberal, I am in the middle and have many conservative viewpoints. I just lean liberal here. You mention that the reason doesn’t matter because we should focus on fixing the problem. Further you mention low IQ white communities, which I won’t say too much on because we will have some agreement here. 1. I disagree with labeling the problem, but agree we need to find solutions. I just think understanding the ins and outs of these issues actually helps us find a solution. 2. Many liberal scholars come up with ideas. The problem is politicians on both sides actually don’t understand it, and actively misrepresent their own scholars at times. The media more portrays it as a this or that while there are plenty of scholars on both sides actually trying to find solutions. We just disagree how to get there. That is why identify the problem is often important.

(For Wylted)
Regarding homeschooling, what I said is true because research has been done on this. There are ways to obtain population groups from both subsets via the central limit theorem (Field). So what I am saying isn’t assumed, it’s been tested and shown. Same with the struggles educator go through. Educational researchers have studied and cited struggles through mixed methods research, quantitative research, qualitative research, and quasi experiemental research to determine this (Field, 2018; Myers et al., 2017; Campbell & Stanley 1959). Simply put, this all has been research and I cited scholars to show this as well. You mention IQ being a possible variable and that may be true. The problem with this is that higher IQ is also correlated with socioeconomic standing (Cambridge.org). You ignoring the item I mentioned in regard to making a correlation causation fallacy while saying I am not coming from a tabula rasa way is interesting. I actually demonstrated most claims based on how data and research is conducted to determine knew findings. This is done through various fields and has been proven to be correct even in the hard sciences (Field, 2018; Friedman, 2006). Diverting saying I am not following the tabula rasa way which is “an absence of preconceived ideas or predetermined goals; a clean slate”, is actually crazy. I am citing scholars through in text citations, showing how data works, and research works, while you hand wave away research without presenting much of your own. You typically state it so while I am at least providing in text citations if a reference page was not shown. This means the audience can look up my claims while most of your remains unjustified. The sad thing is, I don’t have predetermined goals because in regard to racial items I use to agree with you until I learned to research. You hand waving away data is a problem that is yours not mine. If I said something wasn’t up to standard it was because the research process that has been proven to work within universities says it’s wrong while I provided citations to back it up. You mentioning genetics is wild because if we wanted to is shown that poor black kids are typically way poorer than poor white kids (Berkley). We see this disparity based on issues such as pay rates based on non college degree/high school graduate data which shows minorities being payed far less despite being at the same education level (Berkeley). Regardless yea you typically don’t have as many behavior issues from poor white people but that is due to a variety of factors such as the incarnation rate which has been high since the civil war ended and caused there to be difficulty when raising kids (Berliner & Hermans, 2022). You had periods like the civil rights times and the war on drug times, which has caused a cycle of youth to see parents locked up (Anamma, 2018). If you have parents locked up it is more likely for you to follow the same footsteps (Anamma, 2018; Fau.edu). I can also back up that minorities are more likely to be punished more harshly for the same behaviors when compared to white people, which can be shown in schools and in the actually prison system (Anamma, 2018; Berliner &Hermans 2022; Berkeley; Michigan law).

(For Wylted) I hate to say it’s unfortunate because you have continued with the same fallacies. To start for IQ data you are not citing research, and just citing regular websites. These are know for errors, and it has been shown peer review is more accurate (Libguides; Friedman 2006). It’s interesting you think you know more than experts. You see meta-analysis is a statistical method used across multiple studies (Myers et al., 2017). If you don’t understand the math I am sorry, but that doesn’t make it wrong. You making stuff in regard to women studies I can’t address simply because that isn’t my area of study, but you still don’t understand how population groups work as described by (Ruel et al., 2017). You have to compare populations based on your research question and the statement was never were teachers the smartest. You citing those majors are simply just comparing two vastly different population groups. Engineers and physicists would be at the top, and is even mentioned with the meta-analysis is cited. Granted you’re still going to say it’s biased somehow even though it has certain aspects which agree with some of your claims, which shows it controls for bias. The original claim was teachers being low IQ and being lower IQ compared to most other degree paths, when it really matches with the average. Of course engineers and physicists will be higher because they are the top of the top. That doesn’t deal with the claim that educators have a lower IQ because research shows otherwise. The problem with your citation not being peer review is it actually leaves off plenty of other fields of study as well, which are even cited below teachers. I’m not making some grand claim like teachers are brilliant, but I can show the claims are false.

Below

Blacks of the same economic status also have higher crime rates.

Here is a list of average IQ by major

https://stephenporter.org/iq-by-college-major/

"On your claim with IQ, I hate to say you are running from your original claims. At first you mentioned that teachers were low IQ"

I have an IQ of 160 what do you think ai consider a low IQ to be?

Yes 106 is retarded. These people are idiots and even when you crawl towards 120 it's still a bunch of midwits who almost exclusively use appeals to authority of some variation to make arguments.

The meta studies across all college degrees are dumb it includes shit like "women's studies" . To see if they are retards you should compare them to people we know are smart like physicists or engineers

"First homeschool children and public school children are vastly different population groups. Performance has nothing to do with teaching, but simply has to do with parental involvement, "

You are assuming that. Perhaps it is due to the fact that IQ is largely heritable and so the kids are smarter. That seems like a variable that should be accounted for since it's the most obvious cause for better performance in things like SATs which are essentially IQ tests.

"You are making a lot of correlation causation fallacies '

No you are not coming from this in a tabula Rasa way. I have zero biases and just am going to assume the most obvious thing. For example if blacks kids have behavior problems then it's probably due to genetics especially since poor white kids have these problems to a lesser degree.

You did mention black kids being punished harder and I shit you not when I was taking notes on all these, studies showed they are punished less often for behavior issues and so when they are finally punished it is usually for a bunch of things and then people used that to indicate racism asking for increased punishment of black kids on first offenses. So the behavior issues don't escalate.

Have you ever dealt with black parents when their kids have behavior issues? What about the parents of white kids? We know which parents are more likely to lash out at the kid and which are more likely to lash out at you, so obviously the black kids will get more slack. It isn't racism it's a response to the situation that black parents are creating.

"if someone tried to compare crime in a poor country like Mexico with a richer country like a wealthier European country, one may say that white people are better than minorities"

You start with the presupposition of perfect equality but if white societies tend to create prosperity and low crime while non white societies create the opposite than clearly our. Systems are better at least and they should copy and paste our systems to get the same results.

"My offer to debate racial issues is still on the table. I may be willing to do something in regard to schools as well. Just let me know instead of us just using a comment thread lol! Anyway nice conversation.'

I could take it to a debate depending on the discussion but our goals when communicating are probably different. I am enjoying this but if you aren't it's fine. I am pretty well read on this stuff as well. I have also taken and aced courses in statistics so I know what confounding variables are. I do think social scientists will often try to overcomplicate shit with them.

They will always try to dig a layer deeper and keep going until they get the answer they want. For example socioeconomic sounds better than African Americans being a problem somewhere so they will point to poor white kids and see the same issue to a lesser degree and use that to dismiss the real problem.

You also miss the real issue here as well and have missed some opportunities. For example.... Does it matter if black kids have a lower IQ than white kids on average or more behavior problems and whether those problems are from a legacy of racism or from genetic inferiority?

This is where liberals really fuck up. This is because the answer doesn't matter, what matters is that we see a community struggling and there are steps we can take to make their lives better which by extension will make our lives better, but instead of saying this you get distracted by who is superior or inferior or whether perfect equality exists or not. Of course you lie to yourself and assume perfect equality and you care more about protecting that illusion than you do about bettering society.

We can take race out of this. Is your average Appalachian hillbilly an idiot and low IQ? Yes?

Is it probably a long genetic legacy of idiots breeding with each other just like in large portions of the black population? Probably yes and if these hillbillies were black you would probably be in denial about that genetic inferiority.

The bottom line is that it doesn't matter. These are humans that need help and it's worth discussing strategies for making that happen

(For wylted) So I don’t mean to sound wrong, but it may come off that way, and if it does I am sorry. First of all socioeconomic isn’t “code”. It is considered in research a confounding variable or a sample group depending on how the study is done (Field, 2018; Ruel et al., 2017). In what I was referencing in the previous reply it fits as a confounding variable/covariate (Other explanation of the data). Depending on the type of analysis you run you can involve a confounding variable/covariate (Field, 2018). This would involve poor people of every race within the analysis, but poverty does affect black people more so it would show this in the analysis. Due to the statistical model it would say socioeconomic status would affect many issues, which does happen to correlate with minorities.
On your claim with IQ, I hate to say you are running from your original claims. At first you mentioned that teachers were low IQ, which is shown by the analysis that they weren’t. You also made a claim that it was one of the lowest IQ degrees and I presented a meta analysis of 106 studies to show that this was the average across most college degrees, which means that your claim again was false in regard to it being one of the lowest IQ degrees. Yea you can do what is considered bivariate means comparisons between two different groups, but that doesn’t encompass the whole of college degrees (Fields, 2018; Myers et al., 2017). The analysis of that magnitude would involve about any college degree imaginable. You citing one field that has higher IQ’s doesn’t prove your point because that doesn’t encompass every sample group (Ruel et al., 2017). It also is you retracting on a few different occasions whether you know it or not, because your first claim was low IQ, and your second claim was that they were one of the lowest IQ degree paths. Both were demonstrated as false. Your mentioning homeschooling data doesn’t really show much again due to many things I said already and some additional things I will point out. First off teachers again have to deal with anybody and everybody from IEP kids, behavior kids, kids with home issues, kids with different learning needs, and oversized classrooms (Berliner & Hermans, 2022). You never dealt with any of this because someone homeschooling wouldn’t have this many barriers. You may be able to find someone with one or a couple of these but not all. This is something teachers have to deal with on the regular (I have taught and tutored. The experiences are very different with tutoring being easier, because the kids want to be there and there are less of them. I would kill to teach only one kid. That is a cake walk in most cases). So even though you never actually dealt with the factors or “confounding variables” that would affect teacher performance we can move on to something else in regard to this. First homeschool children and public school children are vastly different population groups. Performance has nothing to do with teaching, but simply has to do with parental involvement, more opportunities due to possible socioeconomic status, and parents having less kids (Fields, 2018; Myers et al., 2017; Berliner & Hermans 2022). I mention this simply because this also effects the school choice movement where private schools perform better than public and some charters perform better than public in some scenarios (It’s about even with charter’s) (Berliner & Hermans 2022; Kalulu et al., 2017) (If someone has more parental involvement and had more resources it’s easier to perform better). Again I’m not trying to sound mean, but you should actually read researchers and read how researchers form methodologies. You are making a lot of correlation causation fallacies without knowing it (This is not meant to be an insult. I’m a researcher/statistician who has actually presented peer review work at Cornell. This reading actually takes a lot to understand so it isn’t a dig. Think of it this way, if someone tried to compare crime in a poor country like Mexico with a richer country like a wealthier European country, one may say that white people are better than minorities in regard to crime based on skin color. That is a correlation causation fallacy similar to what you mentioned. The other explanation would be poverty levels). If you want readings on research methodology, education, statistics, black history, or minority research let me know. I will give you the good bad and ugly from every side. My offer to debate racial issues is still on the table. I may be willing to do something in regard to schools as well. Just let me know instead of us just using a comment thread lol! Anyway nice conversation.

"Researchers such as Berliner & Hermans show that other factors are associated with behavior such as socioeconomic status."

Socioeconomic status is code for who? We know ......

102-112 may be average but it is low. I mean in the general population at least they have the excuse if retards dragging the average down but for colleges? There is a reason why STEM degrees often have IQs closer to 130.

As. Far as you are saying with students and teachers sucking at teaching. Homeschoolers also generally perform better on standardized tests and many are getting 5 hours of studying done a week and random adults are outperforming teachers with much less time and professional training.

Do teachers ever think that they spend like 8 hours a day with kids and those kids learn less than parents literally doing one hour or two hours of work daily with their homeschool child?

(For Wylted) So I will try to answer as best as I can because I am doing this from my phone. Studies I found show IQ of teachers between the range of 102-115. This would be considered normal IQ average, which will be showed in this citation (science.org) You are wrong about it being one of the lower IQ’s for college degrees, because meta analysis show that the average undergrad IQ is 102 (Science.org) (For those who don’t know what a meta-analysis is, it is essentially a bunch of studies combined into one analysis. It provides extremely reliable results across the literature as seen by Myers et al., 2017). There are obviously differences in sub groups, such as major and specific colleges attended. This does show your comment is a little misinformed because this seems to be the consensus (I won’t say for sure, but just looking today it seems that way). Your comment about “studies trying to paint a narrative around black people shows that you need to read a little more about this”. Researchers such as Berliner & Hermans show that other factors are associated with behavior such as socioeconomic status. This in stats is considered a confounding variable (Field, 2018). (Other explanation for the data). You have researchers such as Annama that say racism is shown in the school system, because you can see minorities punished heavier for the same issues. This is shown in some regard in qualitative and quantitative data (I can show school to prison-pipeline data). You mentioning your IQ and learning disability experience is interesting. I would say it’s more complicated, but from my experience college doesn’t teach gen ed teacher enough about this. I would say I need to view IEP plans to understand better, but I wouldn’t necessarily say that. I had a high IQ but was put in certain classes because I functioned better with little noise on tests. You can be smart and have an IEP. That is a misconception many people have. Your third grade math example is interesting, but is too narrow for me to give an easy answer to. It could be a number of things such as child behavior, the district wanting math taught a certain way (That one is a real pain. They do make math harder than it should be at times), it could be having a diverse set of students (Not everyone learns the same), it could be oversized classrooms (this is worse in poorer schools), or it could be learning disabilities (it does happen). Not everyone is your kid, and that isn’t how science is done. You perform studies with a decent size population so you can generalize the results (Field, 2018; Ruel et al., 2017). If we went with decisions off one person then we would overlook everyone else (Also the teachers have way more students to teach than you would, if you taught your kid). I will note that my school district and my school has improved proficiency in math and reading each year over the past 5 years, so it really depends on the setting and what is going on. One off cases without being in the room are hard to solve.
Refrences
https://www.scienceopen.com/hosted-document?doi=10.14293/S2199-1006.1.SOR.2024.0002.v1

How come teachers struggle to teach 3rd grade math over an 8 hour day for months at a time when I can teach my kid the same skill in 30 minutes a day

Honestly I can’t speak to say I know for sure, but I don’t think it is a rush. Honestly I’ve dated kind women too, who just never worked out. I stayed friends with many of them, despite never ending up with them. Honestly I just stuck to searching for women who had the goals I mentioned before. Eventually if you keep doing that you will find her. You also need to be kind but strong and up front as well. There is no need to be a “bad boy”, to get a girl. Women from my experience like if I guy stands up for what they believe in (There is a way to stand up if something is wrong or if you feel your significant other does some stuff. You can create an environment where she can do this too. Fighting is part of relationships and it is how you move forward. Now don’t fight over every little thing, but normalize talking. It solves a lot of problems. I see a lot of unhappy marriages where someone bottles emotions in the whole time). I mentioned living for you a lot because I feel like I failed on this for a while. I work extremely hard. As a teacher alone you are given a lot of task not many see, and during the school year, teaching can be like working more than one job. Additionally I coached sports, refereed games, and worked after school care to earn extra money for school. Along with this I drive an hour and a half to my college because they are one of the best in regard to research (I am shooting for one day getting out of teaching and working in a research field. There is no money in teaching and the people in charge don’t care about teachers in many settings. Our education system is going to suffer in the long turn because of this). I love my job even though I am trying to leaves, because I view that education as Horace Mann says can be the great equalizer in helping people be successful. I work with a lot of troubled youth and work a lot behind the scenes creating after schools groups in what spar time I get to work with them. Hopefully be a light they typically don’t see on a normal basis. With all that I noticed from the sheer amount of work I was doing, I wasn’t spending as much time with my wife (It’s summer now so I can make it up, but I won’t make that mistake again). Doing that made her upset at times, because life was work. There are plenty of teachers like me, but we are starting to leave. What remains are teachers who don’t care, and the few good ones can’t kill ourselves to lift the schools up alone (Part of me almost wants to give up the six figure job to be a college professor. As much as I want money, I signed up to help a cause which is failing in my state). Trying to pick up where most people would refuse to help, caused me to miss valuable time with family. If I could go back I would. I unfortunently can’t, so I can just move forward. From now on I gave up all my side jobs and my only side thing will be school (I’m halfway done. I am too far in to give that up). My eyes opened when I heard the new that I will be having a kid, because I don’t want to miss any part of there life.

". There are plenty of studies that back up many of my claims in regard to the difficulty of teaching and why many teachers are trying to find different careers "

Yes and those studies bend over backwards to not say "black kids" are out of control. The solution is probably to teach in white schools where kids are genetically more inclined to be well behaved.

Studies show that those receiving teaching degrees are around an average IQ of 102 so one of the lowest IQ degrees. You sound like a saint though if what you are saying is true.

What do you think of the concept of twice exceptional students? How can a person simultaneously be a genius and a retard?

I have a high IQ but took learning disabled classes so I am trying to figure out if a 160 IQ makes me smart or if I only think it makes me smart because I am a retard as evidenced by my learning disabled classes I took.

So am I stupid for being in LD classes or what? Seriously very self conscious about this

(For Wylted. It won’t let me tag him lol! It says not active). The only thing you are right about is that teachers don’t get paid a lot. That’s why I’m obtaining a PhD and getting a higher paying job within the school system. I can actually make a good bit of money doing this, and my PhD program can actually get me high paying jobs outside of the school system as well (career transition. I can actually make six figures if I play my cards right when I finish). Umm to the low IQ and summers off, it’s seems that you don’t know what you are talking about. Teaching is honestly an art form, and to be good at it, you have to be able to teach students of all different needs from behavioral issues, IEP kids (I specifically teach visually and hearing impaired kids, along with cognitive issues), ethnic differences, and kids without parents. This actually gets quite hard, which is why teachers are leaving the field. Not to mention discipline issues can be out of control. I actually choose to work in an area that has rougher students due to economic issues there family faces, so I can be a parental figure. Yes we get summers off, but it is about needed. I basically work two jobs to help pay for school, and my teaching job does often keep me doing work late at night to provide for the students. Honestly I’ve put a full years work in by the end of summer anyway lol! As someone who has worked full year round before and taught, working full year round is actually easier to me. This is due to all the challenges teachers face during the school year, which actually cause more stress compared to jobs I worked full year round. Maybe before saying something, you should actually research the teaching field. There are plenty of studies that back up many of my claims in regard to the difficulty of teaching and why many teachers are trying to find different careers (Many of these are work full year around jobs. Compared to what teaching is becoming I will probably transition to this once I graduate lol! Also if you want some actual reading on this from experts let me know).

Thanks, you shared your experience , I usually think experience is valuable than any, on all fields including life. I want to know how to get our Miss whether we want to rush to find our love or we want to wait for her. Living for me or living for us [family] which you selected and why,.

I publish after 12 hours but within 15 hours.

Not really, no.

Short sighted and self indulgent

Find a job you really love or get education which will enable such job.

Saying you are trying to create a better life for your wife while simultaneously choosing teaching because it is low IQ, easy and gets summer off and pays shit is a contradiction

I’m still trying to figure my life out, but I am 28 (About to be 29). Truth is I think nobody ever has it life out as a whole. Even though I have worked hard I am still broke, despite accomplishing a decent amount. I am currently a teacher who is happily married to my wife (The only woman I ever loved). I am halfway through my PhD program in educational research at the University of Southern Mississippi (This is one reason I’m broke. Trying to provide a better life for my family and future family due to planning to become a dad. What shocked me is that it is close around the corner and wasn’t planned). I’ve worked hard, and have spoke at Universities for teacher conferences and peer review research (My top conference was presenting at Cornell. Not bad for a someone from Alabama). Even though I am trying to learn myself, there is a lot I have learned from the past which keeps me moving. 1. Work hard, but don’t overwork yourself. This is hard especially if you want to be successful, but I learned slowing down is important. Especially if you have family (memories with people you care about are important). 2. Don’t let people discourage your aspirations. Now, you do want to be someone who does something that can provide for yourself (A stable career maybe). I mention this to say, that when I started my journey in working to obtain my PhD people downplayed my intelligence. It’s true that I am not the smartest, but people would say that if I can make it anyone can (There are plenty more. I just tune them out). Halfway through this program I am currently in the running to graduate with the highest average (I’ve maintained a 4.0 this whole time through hard work). 3. If you want to get married, find someone with similar values, someone who has goals, and someone who is driven to accomplish those goals (Usually people that have good values and work hard are more likely to be dedicated to a relationship). Before I went on my first date with my wife, I thought that I found this woman who was amazing. She was pretty, and all the guys liked her. Come to find out, she wasn’t a good person and I had to end it, which did hurt me (I dated for looks, not character. She could be a cool person now, but that is so far removed that I don’t think about it now). Fast forward months later I went on a date with another beautiful woman who had the characteristics mentioned above. Eight years later we have been together this long. This includes three years of marriage with our first Child on the way (The mistakes from the previous relationship were actually when I was 20, so it is in the time frame mentioned. I met my wife at 21). If you want to ask anything feel free. Asking about this at such a young age means you are probably ahead of a lot of people. I use to just think of drinking whiskey and chasing woman at that age (Ironically I never did a good job hitting on them. They just came to me if I’m being honest. Not that what I did then was right lol!)

Advice that seems solid to me, is get a job, 'most any job. Maybe.
Keep track of where you got it, your employers name and number, for future job references.
Earlier you start, earlier you're done, if you plan the future right and save your money. Maybe.

For most people, saved money's always good to have.
And lot of people are creatures of habit,
Get into the habit of not working, it can be easy to keep not working.
Get into the habit of working, easier to keep working.

First off Hitler

Thank you

Its okay I will give this kid great life advice, no forum needed

I can't create forum, it not showing any button

https://www.debateart.com/forum/personal/topics/new

IDK about what is forum, And IDK how to start it, Can you tell about it.

Thank you for sharing this, This would be helpful, I wish for best future to you.

Because I didn't enjoy the lack of freedom.
I found it irritating to have 'so 'many of my actions be forced and regulated.

The forum would be better for this.

As a debate, it implies 1v1, and someone having a better way than whatever you offer.

In the forum, it can have any number of participants.

Why you not continued your navy job?

Anything you want to do?
Any interests you have?
Interested in following any family footsteps?
Any straightforward paths available to you?

Personally, I lazed about, rotted and decayed for a couple years after High School,
Then joined the Navy for 5 years, saved up some money,
After getting out, I rotted for a couple years,
Got a job stocking the freezer section at a supermarket for a couple years,
Then after my Dad broke his arm, left that job for a bit, and I spent an 'irritating amount of time visiting him.
But after he healed up some, I finally was able to get away back to my own place. Except after a few months he asked me to visit again, but 'now I'm away again, back in my own place. No job currently, rotting again, maybe rot the whole summer before trying something again. Random job or college maybe.

Military was annoying, but paid well.
Grocery job, was nice working at night, pay was bad though, and they kept trying to raise my hours. And they never hired enough people, not to mention the turnover rate.