Instigator / Pro
28
1614
rating
17
debates
85.29%
won
Topic

Girls joining the BoyScouts Of America

Status
Finished

All stages have been completed. The voting points distribution and the result are presented below.

Arguments points
12
6
Sources points
8
8
Spelling and grammar points
4
4
Conduct points
4
0

With 4 votes and 10 points ahead, the winner is ...

Pinkfreud08
Parameters
More details
Publication date
Last update date
Category
Miscellaneous
Time for argument
Three days
Voting system
Open voting
Voting period
Two weeks
Point system
Four points
Rating mode
Rated
Characters per argument
15,000
Contender / Con
18
1616
rating
32
debates
62.5%
won
Description
~ 172 / 5,000

Rules:

- Keep it civil

- No semantics ( they hurt my head )

- The BOP is shared since I have to prove that it's a good idea and Con has to prove why it's a bad idea.

Round 1
Pro
Well hey, Franklin it's been a while since we had a debate, anyways feelings aside let's begin. 

My argument for why girls should be allowed to join is pretty simple and straight forward, 

1. Girls get an opportunity to become an eagle scout which is rather useful for job applications. 

2. The troops aren't coed, so this means the girls and boys get to choose whether or not they want to do events with one another 

The reason why I bring this up is because one of the strongest arguments I've heard is that it's pushing girls into boy scouts,

When in reality if anything it gives troops even more freedom of choice since now boys and girls can interact in a camp/meeting setting which in turn brings unity between the sexes. 

3. Girls get to learn useful skills in Boy scouts that they wouldn't otherwise learn in girl scouts. 

This includes, 

- Survival skills IE pocket knife safety and how to start a fire 

- Leadership through planning meetings and organizing campouts and hikes. 

These are arguably the bulk of why I think it would be a good idea for girls to join the BSA, or now SOA. 


Con
ok Hi Squekly, anyway I have to disagree here. My argument is pretty much this

1.Boy Scout programs are not set up to cater to a female audience.
2.Boys look forward to their special time spent with their buddies.They often ask their parents to sign up for scouts so they can do “boy” activities with their friends. When girls are allowed into the organization, boys do not get to experience what they signed up for.
3.Its called BOY SCOUTS
4.Many people enjoy the scouts because they are a traditional group.They offer traditional morals and activities. Gender complications have been a big deal in recent years. There has been much more focus on gay rights and gender neutral activities. The general public is expected to accept all gender types, however, these groups to not accept that traditional values are important to some people.
5.There are many benefits to being able to talk to friends of the same sex about your life. Everyone knows about things like “girl talk”.Girls are not scrutinized for having private conversations that exclude boys. Yet, boys are expected to let girls join in on their private time.
6. The last thing these kids need is bunch of girls honing in on their special time. Each Boy Scout has their own need, and a specific reason that they joined the organization. These are often best met by male peers and pack leaders.
7.Boys are easily distracted from tasks when girls are around. This is the concept behind private, all-boys schools. If schools can remain all-boy, the Boy Scouts should be able to, as well. Boys often learn better when girls are not in the picture.

to sum up, boys will be off target,less focused and for God's sake ITS CALLED BOY SCOUTS.
Round 2
Pro
1.Boy Scout programs are not set up to cater to a female audience.
While this may be true for some girls, there is a good chunk of girls that are left unsatisfied with girl scouts. 

Sadly there aren't any definitive statistics on the matter so I'll have to rely on anecdotes if you can provide to be a reputable source then I will take that sources statistics however until then, here' s my anecdote. 

I currently live in the California Bay area in the suburbs and am in Troop 21. 

Recently Troop 22 was formed to cater to girls and already just out of the founder's group alone, there are 15 girls of all ages. 

This is nearly half the size of our boy troop alone. 

I could imagine in other bigger areas there is even more interest in girls joining boy scouts. 

Regardless of the numbers, there are girls who want to join Boy Scouts since they dislike Girl Scouts. 

2.Boys look forward to their special time spent with their buddies.They often ask their parents to sign up for scouts so they can do “boy” activities 
Boys still get to hang out with their friends, the only difference is now girls get to do the same. 

And the " boy " activities are still the same, the only difference is now girls get to participate. 

3.Its called BOY SCOUTS
That's not the best argument to make. 

By this logic, I could create a country called " Neo-Nazis KKK United" which would justify discrimination against blacks, Jews, and homosexuals. 

A less extreme analogy would be the white and black schools since I could simply state, Its called WHITE SCHOOL

4.Many people enjoy the scouts because they are a traditional group.They offer traditional morals and activities. Gender complications have been a big deal in recent years. There has been much more focus on gay rights and gender neutral activities. The general public is expected to accept all gender types, however, these groups to not accept that traditional values are important to some people.
Firstly if you're valuing traditional values to the point where you're going to use this to discriminate against a group of people, this could be used to justify homophobia, racism, and antisemitism. 

Secondly, the activities aren't changing, each troop still gets individual freedom of what activities they want to do. And largely the activities aren't changing at all.

 5.There are many benefits to being able to talk to friends of the same sex about your life. Everyone knows about things like “girl talk”.Girls are not scrutinized for having private conversations that exclude boys. Yet, boys are expected to let girls join in on their private time.
Well again the Troops aren't coed and the Troops have the privilege to decide when or when not the girl and boy troops can participate in the same activities. 

6. The last thing these kids need is bunch of girls honing in on their special time. Each Boy Scout has their own need, and a specific reason that they joined the organization. These are often best met by male peers and pack leaders.
There are woman leaders in boy scouts and it works out just fine. Not to mention the fact that the girl's troops will be largely run by women leaders while boy scouts will largely be run by male leaders. 

Not to mention the fact that this is an anecdotal claim, so unless you can provide to me statistics that Males respond better to Males than I will sadly have to disregard this claim. 

7.Boys are easily distracted from tasks when girls are around. This is the concept behind private, all-boys schools. If schools can remain all-boy, the Boy Scouts should be able to, as well. Boys often learn better when girls are not in the picture.
Firstly This "distraction" argument leads to absurdity. 

By this logic, we should ban homosexuals from boy scouts due to them being " distracted " by their male peers. 

Secondly once again this is yet another anecdotal claim.

Anyways I shall now await a response. 



Con
I don't need "statistics". The purpose of BOY scouts by its original founder was to create leadership, character and skills for BOYS. If your unsatisfied with girl scouts then create another program for girls. Stop trying to wage war on a organization that for over 100 years has served boys. If boys are unsatisfied with boy scouts, they shouldn't be able to budge into girl scouts, NO create a new program. Its like what is better: getting mad at a all-boy school and demanding your equality. Or setting up a all-girls school.

Boys act differently when girls are around. The reason all-boys schools exist is because it fits the need for boys.More Recess, different types of books that cater to men, male role-model's,etc. When they are girls around,this is much different. These needs are not fulfilled but rather ones that need to be fit with girl needs as well. This blurs the line between BOY scout activities. 

The point I made with the Boy Scouts is that girls might feel ashamed when they say they are a in part of BOY scouts. Also your analogy is wrong because they are no inherit difference between races but they are between sexes. 

Were not discriminating. Were simply stating that traditional values can be protected in boy scouts but blurs the line when SJW allows girls in.

For number 5-Yes I understand that, but this blurs the line


Gay people make up a small percentage of the populations and YES you can get distracted. 
Round 3
Pro
I don't need "statistics"
You made various claims that need statistics to back themselves up such as, 

Boys are easily distracted from tasks when girls are around. 
And, 

These are often best met by male peers and pack leaders.
These are both claims that need statistical data or various articles published by psychologists or Sociologists too back themselves up. 

If you are going to use these claims to justify banning girls from boy scouts, then I want to hear your evidence to back up these claims. 

The purpose of BOY scouts by its original founder was to create leadership, character and skills for BOYS.
This is another appeal to tradition which again can be used to justify, 

- Racism, white fountains, and schools were made to education and quench the thirst of WHITES 

- Homophobia, the military was made to be for heterosexuals and homosexuals would be distracted by their male peers

- The Holocaust, Germany was made to cater to GERMANS and CHRISTIANS, not jews. 

 If your unsatisfied with girl scouts then create another program for girls. 
That is rather hard to do when girls simply joining boy scouts is a much simpler and inclusive solution to the problem 

If your counter would be to change girl scouts, then what about the girls who actually like girl scouts and don't want to camp or learn survival skills? 

This solution would satisfy both sides and be easier. 

Boys act differently when girls are around.
Another anecdotal claim with no statistics to back itself up. 

The reason all-boys schools exist is because it fits the need for boys.
This does not fit the situation at all, it's not as if the troops will be co-ed and have girl and boy leaders. 

So this argument is invalid because of this. 

Even then, each Troop still has their freedom to make decisions on leadership and there are already woman leaders in boy scouts and it's worked out fine. 

The point I made with the Boy Scouts is that girls might feel ashamed when they say they are a in part of BOY scouts.
I don't see the point since the name is changing to scouts. 

Not only this but I haven't heard of women complaining about this sort of ashamed attitude at all if you can provide to me statistics or articles I'd love to read them however once again this is an anecdotal claim. 

 Also your analogy is wrong because they are no inherit difference between races but they are between sexes. 
First of all, you didn't provide a quotation mark so I can't exactly determine what point I was making. 

However, even then there are inherent differences. 

Economic status, culture, and genetics to name a few. 

Please name me differences between female scouts and Male scouts because they act fairly the same. 

Were not discriminating. Were simply stating that traditional values can be protected in boy scouts but blurs the line when SJW allows girls in.
Well, this is another appeal to tradition which can be used to justify, 

- Slavery 

- The Holocaust 

- Homophobia 

- Racism 
Gay people make up a small percentage of the populations and YES you can get distracted. 
Ok so if gay people made up a larger percentage of the population you'd ban them from scouts simply because I'd be too " distracting " 

And once again the troops aren't co-ed so this wouldn't be a problem at all. 

Believe it or not, men/women don't get so distracted by the opposite sex to the point you're describing. 

Even if this was the case, you are going to value performance in boy scouts which is pretty irrelevant due to the fact that 90 percent of the activities done in boy scouts are mostly fun activities that benefit from a better sociable setting such as canoeing, swimming, hiking camping, and creating a fire which doesn't require such a high level of concentration and is mostly casual activities. 

Unless of course, you are going to bite the bullet and try to make an argument that performance means everything in scouts and sociable settings don't matter. 

To conclude my opponent is relying on anecdotes has ignored my rebuttal from the last round, and is making appeals to tradition. 



Con
Forfeited
Round 4
Pro
All arguments extended, I will be very saddened if my opponent forfeits again
Con
Forfeited