Anime Debate | The Boruto hate needs to stop. It's a good series.
The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.
After 1 vote and with 3 points ahead, the winner is...
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I would prefer my opponent be someone who is apart of the Boruto hate train and is at the same time up to date on Boruto, since there are tons of people who still complain about it over 100 episodes in.
My side will be explaining the Boruto: Naruto Next Generations is a good series and it should not receive all the hate it unfortunately gets.
My opponent's side will be to lay out a compelling argument about Boruto: Naruto Next Generations being a bad series. The person who accepts the debate could qualify as "It's okay, but not that good" or something like that but preferably someone who just hates the series overall. The more hate you have over it, the more compelling your arguments will be.
**For anyone who hasn't seen Boruto, this debate MAY contain spoilers. So read at your own risk**
If this does have spoilers, it could be minor ones.
The best of luck to my opponent.
It's important to note that we can't talk about Boruto without first mentioning the series which it essentially continues: Naruto. Boruto's entire title is Boruto: Naruto Next Generations. Boruto is essentially a revamp of Naruto.
And given the complete and utter letdown the Naruto series was, it would be prudent to sustain the same expectations for Boruto.
Boruto's currently coasting on the popularity and nostalgia of Naruto, relying more so on gimmicks (i.e. ninja technology, and Boruto's "Jogan," rather than a fresh and original plot.)
Furthemore, Boruto is rather spoiled and lacks the underdog demeanor of his own father, which initially made Naruto the series compelling.
Lastly, Since Nruto continues to summon megazord (kyuubi-mode) in Boruto, and receives a lot more screen time than he should, it's at least clear that the series is less about Boruto, and more about giving Naruto another 15 minutes in the limelight. Boruto deserves all the criticism it gets.
Of course Boruto: Naruto Next Generations has Naruto's branding but at the same time it must be understood that the story is about a completely different character: Boruto. The story will not be exactly like Naruto. Already addressed this in "Perspective" point. 1. New generation. 2. Boruto grew up differently than Naruto.
I don't understand how Naruto series was a complete and utter letdown.
Nevertheless, everyone has their own opinions.
I think we can all agree that Naruto is a very important series in the anime community.
Like I said in my first point "Let's acknowledge that the Boruto series will never reach the epicness and greatness of Naruto/Naruto Shippuden." I think you can agree to that.
I don't understand how those are gimmicks. It would make sense that ninja technology is now prevalent since back in the Naruto days, there was no technology. There are now TV's, computers, telephones where Kages can contact each other (rather than carrier pigeons, which I love and miss) and the leaf village becoming more urban and city like. Makes sense because the real world is the same way, technology has and will continue to become more and more advanced.
As for Boruto's "Jogan", I like it. I'm sure it will make him strong and it also shows uniqueness. It's actually pretty cool. I haven't come across too many people who disliked the Jogan. By calling that a gimmick, I assume you're saying the Jogan is overpowered. Can't really talk about that too much since the 9 tailed fox is pretty powerful and some people see it as overpowered and an ass-pull.
Addressed this in "Perspective" point. Yes, Boruto is spoiled for his own reasons and yes he's no underdog. Boruto and Naruto are two different people. I'm pretty sure if Boruto had the exact same story line and if it was just like Naruto, people would still hate it and complain. Unfortunately, this series never gets a break.
1. Boruto has more screen time than Naruto. The series is about Boruto. I don't understand how Naruto appearing makes it less about Boruto. That's his dad. That's like saying in the case for Naruto series, "The series is less about Naruto because Tsunade has a lot of screen time"
2. Is Naruto not supposed to have any screen time?
3. "receives a lot more screen time than he should" - Most people watch Boruto because of Naruto. Wouldn't you enjoy seeing Naruto? Seems that you don't, from that statement.
4. I can understand how you think Naruto is getting in the limelight, but that's simply not the case. Boruto's dad is the Hokage, so obviously he will be in the show from time to time. It feels good even seeing Naruto.
Argument | Please rebuttal my argument below as well as above rebuttals.Just drop itFunny how in episode 65 of Boruto, all the hate disappeared and afterwards, the complaints came back. It's over 100 episodes now, if you're still complaining then that's insane. Just drop the series. If you're watching that many episodes and complaining that you don't like the series then you're just wasting your time. Watching anime should be an enjoyable ride, not a chore. People's expectations are too high for this series. This is a new generation. Everything isn't as raw and gritty as it was for the Naruto series. Understand that the story is centered around Boruto, not Naruto. People are expecting this to be just as spectacular as Naruto. Yeah the fights aren't as good as the Naruto fights but still, there are other things that make Boruto good. If you're a true Naruto fan like myself you wouldn't really care either way. I'm just watching because I'm a die hard Naruto fan, many questions I want answered and also waiting for that epic moment that was foreshadowed in the beginning of episode 1.
Other seriesIf there was a series about Ichigo's son or Luffy's son, people will feel the same way and wouldn't like it because it's different from Bleach or One piece. At the end of the day it's a different show. There is a Youtuber that does Boruto reactions and he absolutely loves Boruto and he sees nothing wrong with it. He also of course acknowledges that it's definitely not better than Naruto. With people seeing other people's perspective on it who watch his reactions, they appreciate Boruto more. There's even comments saying so. The people who used to hate it and complain about it actually like it now.
Except it isn't about a "completely different" character. Boruto looks almost exactly like Naruto, when the latter was a child. The series starts off with Boruto committing the same pranks Naruto did when the latter was child. The titular character's name is Boruto which is conveniently similar to Naruto. Boruto is neither an original nor a standalone series. It's a revamping of Naruto.
Naruto was a complete and utter letdown because the culmination of the overarching conflict namely between the titular character and his best friend/enemy was resolved with a battle of the megazords. Not to mention, any doubt that the characters may actually face mortal peril was resolved with Deus Ex Machina in the inexplicable appearance of the sage of six paths to grant only Naruto and Sasuke the capacity to defeat his mother--an already nonsensical an inexplicable plot device.
Then why are we debating? Why does the hate "need to stop"?
No, I don't agree to that. Naruto is the Japanese Harry Potter, which was heavenly influenced, and the author will admit to this, by the themes of Dragon Ball Z. One can argue that Dragon Ball Z was important since it was a pioneer of many modern anime themes, but Naruto not so much. In my opinion there are better anime focusing on the ninja, i.e. Ninja Scroll and Basilisk.
I'll concede that there were epic moments; but the series itself wasn't epic.
How does that make any sense?
You've just explained the reason it's a gimmick. Especially given that the time gap between Boruto and Naruto shippuden is only ten years, it's quite convenient that he develops a unique dojutsu, which had not been mentioned or discovered ten years prior. And for the sake of fact, I never stated that I "disliked" it. I characterized it only as a gimmick.
Yes, if it's all about perspective, then once again: why are we debating? If the resolution to this debate is just, everyone has different perspectives, then what is the point?
I never said that Naruto had more screen time than Boruto; I said that Naruto had more screen time than he should. If the series is truly about Boruto, then it needs to end its coasting on Naruto's popularity.
Non sequitur. I never said that Naruto shouldn't have any screen time. I said Naruto gets more screen time than he should.
And this statement here undermine everything you just said previously. The show runners know that people watch Boruto because of Naruto; that's part of my point. Boruto is coasting on the popularity of Naruto.
Non sequitur. If you're going to quote, then read that which I state. Responding with, "well he's going to have some screen time" isn't sufficient. I'm not questioning that he gets screen time. I'm questioning the amount of screen time he gets given that he is not the de jure titular character, despite that being the case de facto.
Some people may be predisposed to wasting time. Some may just like to complain; none of that however has anything to do with Boruto. Criticisms of Boruto's plot can be sustained whether a person is wasting time or not. The criticism itself isn't that the show should be canceled. The criticism is that show is bad. Whether one drops the series or not doesn't change that.
There's no way to know that since those series don't exist.
1. It is about a completely different character. Boruto and Naruto are two different people despite them looking damn near the same.
Of course Boruto looks like Naruto, that's his father.
I see nothing wrong with Boruto's name being in the title just like Naruto's name, but moot point.
What's your definition of revamp? I don't really like that word.
Plus, the way you are using it looks like you're saying "they are washing and repeating Naruto's story and putting it into Boruto".
Boruto is technically a standalone series. Boruto is watched last out of Naruto and Naruto Shippuden.
What I said still stands. Naruto is important in the community
Ninja Scroll? Interesting. I took a skim through the first episode of that anime a long time ago and the animation looks atrocious.
Alright. Your opinion. Back to Boruto.
Because it relates to the real world.
Don't see how I explained the reason it's a gimmick. In that case, the nine tailed fox is a gimmick.
I doubt you called it "gimmick" as a good thing, you're Con of the debate and you listed reasons of why you disliked Boruto. That's how I came to the conclusion of you disliking Jogan.
Well what do you suggest? Seems you want him to have some screen time but not too much screen time.
Which is it?
I don't see how that's a bad thing that Naruto, according to you, has more screen time that he should. Before you say "I never said it was a bad thing" you literally said "then it needs to end its coasting on Naruto's popularity." when Naruto's popularity can't be helped.
You act as if Naruto is some unimportant side character. He's the Hokage and he's the titular main character's father.
Wasting time on Boruto, and complaining on Boruto has something to do with Boruto. There's a difference between honest criticisms and riding the Boruto hate train.
Someone with common sense would drop a series that's bad to them especially with over 100 episodes in which is a lot of episodes.
Nice response. The classic "There' no way to know that, they don't exist" You said that because you know there was truth to what I was saying.
I was speaking hypothetically.
If a series about Luffy's son came out, I highly doubt it will reach the magnitude of One piece nor will people like it as much as One piece, or be fond of it, they would compare it to One piece, and they would complain about it just like how people are about Boruto.
Yu Yu Hakusho (YYH) and Hunter x Hunter (HxH) are two anime created by the same creator. YYH came out before HxH. You don't see people complaining on HxH and comparing it with YYH saying "Oh this is nothing like Yu Yu Hakusho" and calling Hunter x Hunter trash. Both of these anime are excellent, I haven't seen YYH but from what people tell me, it's pretty good.
I've seen HxH, and it's a masterpiece.
With that being said, that's all people are doing with Boruto. 90% of these complaints come from the fact that it's not as good as Naruto and comparing it to Naruto, not because people genuinely think it isn't a good series. (This sentence is for point 3)
People are looking at Boruto through the lens of Naruto (naturally, I understand) but it's just hard for people to grasp that it's a different story.
Times have changed
and Boruto didn't grow up like Naruto did. I know what you're going to say, "Boruto series is connected to Naruto, it came after Naruto Shippuden" which is true, yes. Boruto is Naruto's son, and Naruto along with the rest of the characters that we all know and love are still of course in Boruto. So let's treat Naruto/Naruto Shippuden/Boruto as a whole. Now for my next point. Masashi Kishimoto (Creator of Naruto) has made a new series called "Samurai 8" -- which is NOT connected to Naruto. This is in fact a standalone series.
A completely new series that Kishimoto created. The manga of it is out, but not the anime yet I don't think. I looked it up and didn't see it so I guess it hasn't aired yet. There's already controversy about this series, everyone is divided and of course it's because everyone is looking at this through the lens of Naruto. "Is this the new Naruto?" "Will this surpass Naruto?" there are videos and images of it everywhere. Highly doubt it will surpass Naruto. The thing is Naruto is so iconic, so with a completely different series out by the same creator, there will be comparisons, speculations and of course opinions (mostly negative). It's people who already hate Samurai 8 when only the first few chapters just came out. It's like this turned into some Boruto 2.0 situation, when this is the start of a brand new series that just came out. I feel like some of the people who are riding the Boruto hate train are switching tracks for Samurai 8.
Like I previously mentioned with the Yu Yu Hakusho and Hunter x Hunter example, people never compared those two and gave Hunter x Hunter hell.
Hinata then gets a flashback of Naruto doing the same when he was child, explaining the image below. If Boruto was meant to be his own character/person, why would the creator do this?Not all sons look like their fathers. Himawari is also his child and she looks like a combination of both Hinata and Naruto, but I guess the creators skipped that when it came to Boruto.
Once again, why are we arguing, then?
That's exactly how I'm using it.
No it isn't. It cannot be both a continuation and a standalone. As i stated earlier, the series is literally titled, "Boruto: Naruto Next Generations."
Ninja Scroll is a movie.
Then why argue? If you're dismiss every opinion by stating the obvious that it's an opinion, then what's the point?
And going from transporting scrolls through messengers and birds to computers, and telephones within a ten-year span seems "realistic" to you?
Boruto the series in my opinion is more about watching the Konoha 12 (well Neji died, so it's 11) in their adult incarnations, then it is about watching a new story about their children.
Please expand on that which is an honest criticism.
Not if a person likes to complain about a bad series. Sometimes one decides to see things through no matter how utter a disappointment it may be.
How can there be any "truth" to that which you say if the series of which you speak doesn't exist?
Let's define hypothetically: by imagining a possibility rather than reality; as a hypothesis. Where's this truth of which you speak?
You don't know this. There's no information as of yet that be can attained which informs the effect of which you speak. So it's not a "truth."
Me: "I've seen HxH, and it's a masterpiece."You: "I wouldn't go that far"
That's your problem, there. You haven't seen Yu Yu Hakusho. How can you then make an informed comparison? I have seen Yu Yu Hakusho (all 112 episodes and movies.) I've also seen Hunter X Hunter. And the two of them have different stories. Hunter X Hunter isn't a sequel, continuation, or even a spin-off of Yu Yu Hakusho. So why would anyone compare them just because they were created by the same person? The only real similarity between Yu Yu Hakusho and Hunter X Hunter is the main characters' appearances, i.e. Yusuke and Gon. Yu Yu Hakushohas a lot more in common with Bleach than it does with Hunter X Hunter.
You said: So why would anyone compare them just because they were created by the same person?
You also said: And why would we focus on Samurai 8? Does it have anything to do with the Naruto/Boruto characters, plot, setting, themes, motifs, etc?
It's not uncommon for readers to compare different works by the same author. But this is usually done in a more abstract context. It's more about the author than it is about the individual series. As I understand it, a different person has taken on Boruto. So your analogy doesn't suffice.
Once again, Yu Yu Hakusho and Hunter X Hunter are different series despite being written by the same author. It makes no sense to compare them as series. If you want to compare them as far as your preference for the author's works, then that's a different story.
Boruto wearing Naruto's jacket was just for nostalgia and to show how much they look alike.
That doesn't mean he isn't his own person. I look exactly like my father, in fact we're identical. Does that mean that I'm not my own person and that I'm my dad? No. Yes, not all sons look like their fathers but Boruto just happens to look like his.This is anime we're talking about, everything shouldn't be taken so literal.
Naruto has strong and distinct features, such as his eye and hair. So of course the creators wanted his son to take after that and especially him being the main character. "Like father like son."
Just as Himawari, they wanted her to take from her mother, Hinata. She has her hair, but also taking from Naruto's eyes. What this shows is that Naruto has strong genes for both of his children to take after him a bit more than Hinata. People probably wouldn't like it if Boruto took after some of Hinata's features. For me, it would be a bit weird at first and would take some getting used to. Like you said, not all sons look like their fathers and not all daughters look like their mother and vice versa (which is very true), but would you really think people would love Boruto having Hinata's hair and her eyes? Think about it.
but in Naruto, it was much more gritty, it was a previous generation back then and the way they did things were different.
With that being the case, Naruto/Naruto Shippuden should not be tarnished or dragged because of Boruto. If you see it that way, alright. If you don't alright. Naruto series has completely ended (story relating to Naruto), the Boruto series doesn't include Naruto's story or Naruto's journey or anything. It's Boruto's story. It's the next generation. They are connected but Boruto is the main character and there's a whole new perspective.
There's a series version of it, that's what I was referring to.
Yes because in Boruto, technology advanced and the same thing is happening in the real world. It's much easier to communicate and things are happening faster. I'm not saying saying there are scrolls or messenger pigeons irl are being used, if that's what you were insinuating.
I'd argue that it's about both. The story about their children are actually shown more, you barely even see some of the Konoha 12 (11, RIP Neji) you see some of them on a consistent basis but not all - all the time.
Criticizing the series because you dislike the series. Not criticizing it by constantly comparing it to Naruto and complaining that it isn't the exact same.
Plus there are good moments. I'm unsure if you acknowledge the decent moments at all. If you don't, alright. If you do, cool.
Still your only comeback. "doesn't exist" I bet if I ask any person about the One piece example I just said, they would agree. With Naruto being one of the most selling manga, and with Naruto's son having a series, everyone dislikes it and/or of course doesn't like it as much as Naruto. I'm pretty sure the same would happen with One piece, especially it being the best selling manga of all time right now. Boruto would never reach Naruto's magnitude, and a series about Luffy's son definitely wouldn't reach One piece's magnitude.13. I literally imagined a possible (highly possible) hypothesis. I never claimed it was the absolute truth of all truths, I was just making a sensible claim.
Still on the "this doesn't exist" and "there's no way to know". Saying that to make it easier on yourself because you know what I said made sense. Alright Mr. "it's not a truth" because I'm very sure you agree to me with this to an extent (then again, you may claim that you disagree just to say it, because we're on opposing sides, and because "it doesn't exist") I'll say this: My hypothesis of my One piece point is very high of being right, more so than being wrong. There. Now, you can take that however you want it.
Wow lmao I've rarely seen anyone say anything slightly like that against Hunter x Hunter. Every comment I read and every person I've come across thus far loves it. You don't really see anyone saying bad things about it. First Naruto, -- which I can understand because I know it's flaws well, but at the same time, hating on something that's obviously legendary is the thing to do, but Hunter x Hunter? I know there's people who aren't going to like everything, or may call HxH "wouldn't go that far" or "it's alright/okay/average" but one word to describe HxH is compelling. It's simply one of the best. There are minor flaws in HxH but they don't ruin the show at all. I know you aren't saying that you dislike HxH, I would at least hope that you like it, but to say "I wouldn't go that far" is an insult to the series. You must have really bad taste.
The only information I need to know (and already know) is that both series were created by the same author, and I'm fully aware that they are both different stories. I didn't have to see Yu Yu Hakusho to know this. I've even seen clips of Yu Yu Hakusho. I wasn't saying Hunter x Hunter was a sequal, continuation or spin off.
I admit I probably shouldn't have used Naruto and Boruto and compared it with Yu Yu Hakusho and Hunter x Hunter. Since, yes Naruto and Boruto does have the same characters and atmosphere despite (and as well as) them having different authors, so I concede that point to you.
17. That's exactly my point. Samurai 8 and Naruto should not be compared just because they were created by the same person. I know I used Boruto in that point, which I shouldn't have, so I am substituting it for Samurai 8 since I already had Samurai 8 in my argument which backs up my argument.18. That's exactly my point as well. We are focusing on Samurai 8 because it doesn't have anything to do with Naruto or Boruto at all. It's a completely new series which Masashi Kishimoto created, which is also the creator of Naruto.
19. I understand healthy comparisons, but the type of comparisons most people are doing are complaints and trashing the series when only a few chapters of the manga came out with it barely beginning.
Just as Naruto and Samurai 8 are different series despite them being written by the same author. It makes no sense to compare them as series. That's my whole point as well.
- I can only speculate that much of the reason Boruto receives all the hate it gets is that it essentially revamps the Naruto story. Most of the children look identical (or reflect some combination) to their counterparts/parents from the previous series. As far as personalities, they're almost carbon copies. The plot itself is an extension of a nonsensical story from the prequel (i.e. Kaguya.)
- The story relies on gimmicks in its attempt to set itself apart from Naruto (e.g. Jogan, and ninja technology.) This is ridiculous because the technological advancement of Boruto doesn't convincingly reflect the time span of just 10 years. When compared to the series Avatar the Last Airbender and Legend of Korra, which were also Asian Feudal Fantasies, it took 70 years (the gap between ATLA and LOK) to build a working train, let alone computers and machines which can produce bending (that universe's version of ninjutsu.)
- When my opponent's Hunter x Hunter and Yu Yu Hakusho analogy proved unsound, he literally tried to change the argument from one comparing Naruto and Boruto to one comparing Naruto and Samurai 8.
I understand. Thanks anyways
I have seen neither and no the vote would be more fair from people completely ignorant of the shows (which I am). If one had seen the shows they would be more likely to have inherent biases and use rationalization to place a vote.
Resolution: The series doesn't deserve all the hate that it is getting, the series at the moment is good.
What makes anime good is good story, characters, action, etc -- things like that.
The hair color/recessiveness thing was an irrelevant point Con presented first, "Boruto looks almost exactly like Naruto, when the latter was a child"
For someone who hasn't seen the series, you did good with your vote and I respect it. I understand you haven't seen these series and you aren't that well versed in anime so it's not your fault. It seems the both of us pretty much tied in your eyes, but it came to one factor in one of Con's arguments that swayed you. And yeah I enjoyed this debate, I'm glad I finally had a debate about this. I could potentially open up people's eyes (people who have seen these series and who is on my side with the same thoughts as me, or people who trashed Boruto at first, now understands my side) Thanks for voting.
If you seen both Naruto/Naruto Shippuden & Boruto, your vote would be greatly appreciated it. But if you haven't seen it and if you don't watch anime, then it you may be somewhat confused or it may prove challenging to vote, as per Ramshutu. I would constitute a fair vote as someone who has seen both series, since it resonates with them and they know them. There's still time within the voting period, if you want to vote go ahead but if you don't want to, then don't. I'm not forcing you. Mods might delete your vote anyways since they do that a lot, no matter what your vote looks like.
Yeah, I should not have let that one slip. I'll do better next time.
Ramshutu gave a fair vote so there is no need for me to vite especially considering my limited tine
Planned on it actually
I'd like for you to vote whenever you are ready. Spread the word. No rush, take your time. I worked hard in this debate and I wouldn't want it to go to waste
It has less than 3 days left. Please don't force me to vote on this by ignoring it.
I would like you guys to vote as well, if you have the time. And alright Ram, thanks. I know it's a long debate (sorry) I'm not forcing you to vote. If you are interested, then go ahead
It’s on my list - I have a huge backlog of votes. Once I’m down to debates that have > 3 days left I’ll take a look (or when this one is the next one up).
HEEEYYEYEYEYEYEY VOTE NOW!!!
Since you here Franklin, spread the word cause I want people to vote thanks
And about the traits and the looks in the beginning of your argument: Its anime. Not real life. Children can receive recessive genes
I usually don't respond after my opponent posted last argument but it seems that you need clarifications. I'll give some brief responses that aren't going to result in endless back and forth between us in the comments. Ill keep it short and respond to the points that are worth responding to.
1. Seems there was a misunderstanding in the Ninja Scroll point. When you said it's a movie, it looked as if you didnt know there was a series of it. Thats how I took it. But I see what you mean now by reading what you said, and you refer it to the movie exclusively. Understood.
2. Wouldn't you agree that episode 65 of Boruto was epic? Naruto and Sasuke vs Momoshiki was a good fight scene. Maybe you wouldn't call it epic but what about decent.
3. I absolutely agree we both have different standards that constitute a masterpiece, although I do agree with your list especially FMA. I wouldn't call HxH a typical shounen jump anime. It doesnt really follow the tropey things as other shounen. Many reasons for this but I'm keeping it brief. If you see it as typical, then your opinion.
4. My point about Samurai 8 does still stand. I actually pre-wrote all of my arguments in this debate, bringing something new to the table each round. My samurai 8 argument in round 3 wasn't some 'on the spot' situation. But in round 4 I did switch gears as I have the right to since I already used it in my argument. I decided to make samurai 8 the focus. You're just trying to make it easier on yourself to ignore the samurai 8 point.
Agreed! I'm not a fan of K-Pop but I never condemn others for being fans of it. In fact I never even talk about it. It's not that dislike K-Pop, and it's not like I like it either. I have no feelings towards it, I'm indifferent. I have seen a few K pop videos though from friends showing me, but I just never really cared for it. As for Fortnite ah, lol. Same way. I attempted to play Fortnite repeatedly, and it's hard for me to play it. You have to push too many buttons at the same time just to do one thing. Dunno, maybe it's me. I just don't like it, but I can understand the enjoyment of it and how people like it because I admit I love the visuals of it, it looks good.
Yeah, the Boruto hate train has to stop. Everything will experience a rise and fall. It just so happens that Boruto was not, as one would say, preferable to the taste of fans from Naruto's legacy. While many tend to simple voice their opinion and leave. It is the vocal minority that makes the most noise regarding the issue. Same goes to everything hyped up over the past few years. Fortnite, K-Pop, certain Anime and so forth. People think it's cool to hate on the hyped topic nowadays. But in reality they just join in on a bandwagon without realising how their insulting and distasteful opinions are ruining other people's experience who actually like said subject.