Question for Trump Supporters

Author: Double_R

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#211
Greyparrot
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@Best.Korea
Well... the low effort trolling by the MSM with the Putin talk 24/7 most certainly did not help Biden as only .5% Americans polled cited Putin as a national concern....

That's what happens when billionaires are in charge of the propaganda machine.
#212
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@Greyparrot
The propaganda does need improving. But its still a long way to elections. I would recommend the use of Gish Gallop in propaganda. We just say as much good things about Biden as possible while ignoring the bad, and say as much bad things about Trump as possible while ignoring the good.

Or we can just do nothing and let Trump screw up on his own.

"Our goal is to win by not doing anything lmao blub blub" - Kokomi, Art of War
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#213
Double_R
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@YouFound_Lxam
How is he fascist?
Tired of explaining it.

Keep in mind, the question I asked in the op was whether he was a fascist or an authoritarian. Fascism is worse, and while I fully believe he is a fascist I also knew that those who replied defending Trump would skip right passed that and pretend the technical qualifications of fascism was the point of this thread, it wasn't. The point is to understand whether you guys really think this man cares about protecting democracy and the rule of law.

I could find countless of examples of multiple presidents, and other calling each other many names.
No one is arguing he's a fascist because he calls people names. The word vermin not only had a survivor definition that is very different from other political attacks, it also comes with a heavy historical connotation. There is a reason Hitler used the same language to describe the Jews.

Moreover, you guys on the right love to pretend everything he does is in isolation, which is brazenly dishonest. Calling his political opponents vermin is just one example in an array of fascist tactics he uses. Evaluate it as such. The only reason I focus so heavily in it is because it's simple, there's no reason we should be arguing over whether that's acceptable political discourse and if it were from anyone but Trump we wouldn't be.

You mean all the corruption that is in the federal government right now? 
Yes, he is going to fire all of them. 
And that is a smart idea. 
Let me guess... The deep state?

You think it's smart to fire every employee within the federal government who actually knows what they're doing - people who have served through democratic and republican administrations and replace them with people who's only real qualifications is that they are loyal to president Trump? Please explain that.

And no, they won't be people loyal to him. They will be people loyal to the government. 
That's not what they're being screened for.

calling for the execution of a top general over charges of not obeying his presidential will
Show me. 

encouraging police to shoot shoplifters on the spot, not to mention January 6th
Again, example.

Also, January 6th? Really? Thats the best you've got?

How about the countless other protests at an in the capital just recently, held by democrats. 
The false equivalences to J6 are so tiredsome.

J6 was not historically bad because a bunch of protesters got out of control and broke stuff. It was bad because it was the culmination of a months long effort of the sitting president of the United States to overturn an election to stay in power. None of the other examples you have are anything close to that.

And like I explained already, if Trump immediately called on these people to get out of the capitol and sent in the national guard we would not be having this conversation. The fact that he spent the next three hours watching it on TV doing absolutely nothing and wondering why the rest of the people around him were not excited about it proves beyond a reasonable doubt that this was intentional.

Also, not to mention the prosecution to hold Trump accountable for that was thrown out, because of the absurdity of that claim. 
The trial starts in March. What are you talking about?

#214
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 There is a reason Hitler used the same language to describe the Jews.
Hitler also used the words "must be Eliminated" 
People who use inflammatory words are not necessarily Fascists. Just because you check one out of 100 boxes does not make you a Fascist. It's weird to see you harp on this one checkbox.

Calling his political opponents vermin is just one example in an array of fascist tactics he uses.
Elaborate please.

Also, not to mention the prosecution to hold Trump accountable for that was thrown out, because of the absurdity of that claim. 
The trial starts in March. What are you talking about?


#215
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The fact that he spent the next three hours watching it on TV doing absolutely nothing and wondering why the rest of the people around him were not excited about it proves beyond a reasonable doubt that this was intentional.
Ridiculous assertion. Occam's Razor suggests it's most likely incompetence.

The false equivalences to J6 are so tiredsome.
It's not about comparing the severity, (although shutting down a DNC convention is pretty egregious) 
One person got arrested for punching a female cop in the face, but was released later, and probably won't be prosecuted.
It's about the blatant "rules for thee but not for me" precursor to fascism (which you agreed was indeed a marker). None of those protesters getting arrested for "destroying democracy" are being charged for anything serious... that's a clear signal to do more of the same.
#216
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@Greyparrot

Hitler also used the words "must be Eliminated" 
Well, Trump did keep a copy of Mein Kampf on his nightstand.
#217
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@FLRW
Great low effort there Charlie.
#218
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@Greyparrot
People who use inflammatory words are not necessarily Fascists. 
If it looks like a Fascist, and it walks like a Fascist, and it quacks like a Fascist, it's a Fascist.
#219
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@Sidewalker
That seems a little racist.
#220
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@Dr.Franklin
How the fuck are blacks are denied civil rights?? 
Are you stupid? Is that a serious question?

I object to an idiot like you taking the pen name of one of the most brilliant American citizens and statesmen in history 


#221
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So the now thoroughly debunked Russiagate and the 2x failed impeachments were not serious? good to know.
Not debunked. Robert Muller never said it was debunked and he objected to Bill Barr when he inappropriately claimed the report said Trump was innocent before the report was publicly available.

The intelligence community remains adamant that Russia interfered in our election, preferred Trump over Clinton and broke US law to help Trump win.

Trump welcomed the support. His team met with Russians in Trump tower to obtain their help. His campaign shared internal polling data with Russian operatives and Roger Stone was coordinating help with Russian hackers to obtain and release information on the Clinton campaign. Russian operatives collected money and funneled it to US political organizations such as the NRA, and Russians posed as American GOP activists and organized Trump political events. The Russian government spent millions on social media advertising to support Trump.

As usual, you lie. Grey Parrot is a liar who had nothing to do on Thanksgiving 
#222
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@Greyparrot
That seems a little racist.
No, Trump is a lot racist.
#223
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@Sidewalker
Because he looks racist? Ironic.
#224
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@Greyparrot
Because he looks racist? Ironic.
When Trump takes Viagra, he just gets taller.
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#225
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@Public-Choice
Trump's (alleged) quote:

We need to make it much easier to fire rogue bureaucrats who are deliberately undermining democracy or at a minimum just want to keep their jobs,
Assuming this is the actual quote, since your source doesn't actually link to a transcript or video of the speech, what do you have against firing rogue bureaucrats who arw delibrrately undermining democracy? Would you rather have corrupt bureaucrats instead of honest ones?
I think this right here cuts to the heart not only of why I started this thread but also why I am so fascinated with this entire Trump phenomenon. Please answer me this one question fully and sincerely... Do you actually believe what you are clearly implying here - that when Trump says he wants to get rid of the beurocrats undermining democracy that this is actually his goal and by democracy, he's talking about the he same thing the founding fathers envisioned?

Once again, can you actually provide the original quotes with the source for these claims? I haven't heard about any of this at all, and I've been closely following the news all this week.
All of these came out of his own mouth either at his rallies or on his truth social. It's very easy to Google.

No. Fascists and authoritarians don't decline to investigate their political rivals when given the chance like what Trump did with Hillary.
Do you seriously think this 2x impeached 4x indicted 1x booted out of office former president is the same person who took office in 2016?

Fascists don't always start off that way or don't always succeed. Both Hitler and Putin failed their first time around and they learned their lessons. Trump most certainly will not be taking office the second time with the same attitude and he's made that clear out of his own mouth. To believe the first term is a road map on what to expect for the second demonstrates that you aren't paying attention at all.

Fascists and authoritarians also don't concede after losing elections and transfer power over... because they rig the elections so they can't lose in the first place.
He tried to steal the first election, he failed because the beurocrats in key positions all throughout our country including those who fervently supported him chose democracy. Those are the same people he realizes now he has to get rid of.

Conceded the election? It's that a joke? He is still screaming from the mountaintops that he didn't lose.

Transferred power over? My god you can't actually believe that. He tried to steal the electoral vote and that failed, he refused to let Biden's transition team in to prepare to take over, and he left Washington before the inauguration because his attempt to stay in power failed. He didn't transfer it over, we took it back.

I know you didn't want to make this about Biden so I'll be extremely brief here, but Biden has investigated and charged the opposition, has grestly increased the regulatory scope of the government, and has literally used the FBI to track down his personal effects like his daughter's journal and to cover up his son's illegal drug usage and working as a foreign agent.
The regulations part is largely irrelevant. I find the diary allegations silly as a basis for comparison here even if that's fully accurate which I doubt. The part about the FBI covering up his son's activities is complete bullshit. The republicans have been turning over every rock they can find on that and still have came up with nothing.

But worst of all is the charge that he's "investigating his political opposition", as if Trump hasn't obviously committed serious crimes. The idea that Trump could never be investigated without it being for political reasons is a ridiculous 'heads I win tails you lose' defense.

Beyond that, there isn't even any evidence Biden has had anything to do with this at all. He has kept a long distance from Garland because he actually believes in the rule of law which means allowing the attorney general to act independently. And Garland did nothing on any of these charges until the J6 committee forced his hand. If not for them then by all appearances nothing here would have ever happened. And even then this is was put in the hands of a special counsel so he's literally two layers removed from this.

Moreover... I thought Biden was a puppet who didn't know what day it is? But suddenly he's the mastermind behind this entire plot? I really wish you guys would come together and get the narrative straight.
#226
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 that when Trump says he wants to get rid of the beurocrats undermining democracy that this is actually his goal and by democracy, he's talking about the he same thing the founding fathers envisioned?
Irrelevant. If he is the only one making the campaign promise, then he will be the only one that can have any credibility, no matter how small.

Do you know any politician besides Trump to make that campaign promise?

you aren't paying attention at all.
I am genuinely surprised that you give Trump so much credit regarding competency. You are his biggest appraiser in this thread. By far. The rest of us have no high hopes for Trump's competency.

 He didn't transfer it over, we took it back.
So the Democrats usurped power from Trump, as in an insurrection? Weird take but ok.
#227
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Moreover... I thought Biden was a puppet who didn't know what day it is? But suddenly he's the mastermind behind this entire plot? I really wish you guys would come together and get the narrative straight.
Same with you. I thought Trump was an idiot, and now all of a sudden he is a magical competent person? Weird take, but ok.
#228
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@IwantRooseveltagain

Yes, Special counsel Robert Mueller’s report on Russian interference in the 2016 election and the Trump campaign provides one of the most detailed looks at how Russia’s Internet Research Agency — the infamous Kremlin-linked troll farm — tried to hijack the 2016 election and swing the vote in favor of Donald Trump.
#229
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@FLRW
the infamous Kremlin-linked troll farm
More low-effort trolling. You must really want Biden to lose to Trump.
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#230
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@Dr.Franklin
They are objectively political prisoners, is he wrong?
Yes. They are being prosecuted for committing crimes, objectively.

He has only called for the release of those who did nothing wrong, who were the majority
Of course he is. Notice how he doesn't provide any examples, where he would actually be forced to talk about the facts and the law and apply it to the individual circumstances. That's what someone who actually believes what they are saying would do.

Trump isn't calling for the release of anyone because he thinks they're being wronged, he's playing into this fact free narrative he's been concocting where the political left is at war with MAGA and is conspiring to use political power to persecute them. It's complete bullshit, but when your audience relies on vague generalizations that feel good while ignoring logic this is what works politically

He has (correctly) noted how harsh the sentences are some for some of these prisoners as well as the fact that some are being locked up without a charge.
Being locked up without charge... You mean the same issue democrats have been talking about for decades now? Glad to see you are now an advocate for bail reform.

Few cops were actually attacked at the US Capitol
140 Capitol police officers were injured including one who lost a finger and one who lost an eye.

and again those who actually entered the building and committed the acts of "violence" by which there were barely any, were the very small minority that attended the rally. 
So you mean it was mostly peaceful?

Don't act like the left doesn't support cops when it helps them either. All of a sudden they love the capitol police.
The left does not campaign on backing the blue.

Because it didn't come across as that. You are reading way too much into my good friend.

I am sorry you dont get trump humor. Not my fault
It never ceases to amaze me, and I've seen this quite a few times in this thread, how that everytime Trump is called out for saying something terrible you guys ask for specific quotes, and without him explicitly and literally saying what we took out of it then he didn't say it. But yet, everytime he says something explicit and literal you guys all of a sudden recognize that he speaks in a certain kind of code that has to be deciphered.

Moreover, we warn you guys that his words are being taken literally by some and we warn about what will happen, then when what we warned about comes to pass you still pretend it's not his fault. As if it wasn't clearly obvious what would result from his words. The denialism is astounding.

Yes, his words absolutely did come across that way. I'm sorry if you didn't bother to watch it or don't understand how English and basic communication works. When your political opponent is violently attacked by a supporter of yours and you decide to joke about it... You are sending a clear message to your supporters that attacking your opponents is ok. That's common sense.
#231
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The left does not campaign on backing the blue.


What a ridiculous statement.

Pelosi literally handed out gold medals for Capitol Police who escorted protesters through the capitol building.
MSNBC then had them on 24/7

It never ceases to amaze me how strictly far-left radicals religiously follow the MSNBC narrative on Jan 6 when even Pelosi's own daughter knows better.

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#232
Double_R
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@Greyparrot
The fact that he spent the next three hours watching it on TV doing absolutely nothing and wondering why the rest of the people around him were not excited about it proves beyond a reasonable doubt that this was intentional.
Ridiculous assertion. Occam's Razor suggests it's most likely incompetence.
I really try to be cordial here, but there is absolutely no way you are stupid enough to believe this.

Someone sitting around for 3 hours doing nothing about an ongoing atrocity that it was directly his job to stop is not incompetence. If you actually think that you don't speak English.

People who use inflammatory words are not necessarily Fascists. Just because you check one out of 100 boxes does not make you a Fascist. It's weird to see you harp on this one checkbox.
It's weird how you keep responding to arguments no one in this thread is making. Some people apparently love having whole conversations with themselves.

Again... No one is claiming Trump is a fascist because he used an inflammatory word. Fascism includes an array of tactics used to manipulate the populace into setting aside their convictions for a representative government. Language that dehumanizes your opponents is just one of those tactics. I focus on it not because this one checkbox makes or breaks the assertion, but because it's such a simple one for any reasonable person to agree with. Yet here we are.

Same with you. I thought Trump was an idiot, and now all of a sudden he is a magical competent person? Weird take, but ok
Again, there is no way you are being serious here. I've already explained to you numerous times that this has nothing to do with Trump's competence. Are you even trying to pay attention, or is this just an attempt to troll?

So the Democrats usurped power from Trump, as in an insurrection? Weird take but ok.
No genius, not the democrats, the people. We, the people, took power back because that's who it belongs to in the first place.
#233
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@Double_R
I take it you agreed with my other statements then. Also, still waiting on your expanded fascist list so we can collect all the checkboxes unique to Trump "the competent."

but there is absolutely no way you are stupid enough to believe this.
So it takes an educated person to declare Trump a competent person, another weird take, but OK.
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#234
Double_R
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@Greyparrot
I take it you agreed with my other statements then
No, I just didn't have the time to sit here and address every single thing you said over the past few days. If there's something you'd like to hear my response to feel free to ask again.

Also, still waiting on your expanded fascist list so we can collect all the checkboxes unique to Trump "the competent."
Here's a nice little package to start with

but there is absolutely no way you are stupid enough to believe this.
So it takes an educated person to declare Trump a competent person, another weird take, but OK.
Again, this is what makes me think you aren't being serious at all. You just make shit up, and then repeat it no matter how many times I explain how your statement has nothing to do with anything I've said.

What I said you could not possibly be stupid enough to believe (it's only 2 posts up) is that Trump's decision to do nothing while the US Capitol was under attack is not incompetence. Do you understand this? Do you know what competence means? Do you understand the difference between someone who does not have the ability to properly do a job vs someone who doesn't care?

I think you do, which begs the question; why then would you say something so ignorant? It seems to me that you would rather keep going with a terrible argument than to just recognize you were wrong there and adjust.

And as far as this whole competence thing, I've explained this repeatedly as well. You seem stuck on this idea that Trump is incompetent, therefore there's no way he'll accomplish what I am suggesting. Yet you disregard that the hardest part of what I argue he's trying to do has already been accomplished.

He's already divided the country beyond hope. He's already amassed a cult following willing to rewrite their own understanding of what the constitution and rule of law in this country should look like. He's already convinced them that every attempt to hold him accountable for his own actions is actually a conspiracy against him and by extension, a conspiracy against them. This is what fascism seeks to accomplish because once that's done, it's no longer the US vs Trump, it's now the US vs Trump's following.

And his following is already at it. It's not him screening Trump loyalists for government jobs, that's the heritage foundation. It's not him who will be finding ways to pretend these agencies are in line with the constitution as they steamroll over it, those will be the people they pick. And again, who's going to stop them? Congressional republicans? Is Trump really going to get into office and say 'thanks, but this time around I think I'll go with establishment figures to run my government'? No seriously, is that what you think?
#235
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@Double_R
What I said you could not possibly be stupid enough to believe (it's only 2 posts up) is that Trump's decision to do nothing while the US Capitol was under attack is not incompetence.
I think it's very short sighted to refuse to entertain this as a real possibility that Trump is indeed, incompetent.

He's already divided the country beyond hope. He's already amassed a cult following willing to rewrite their own understanding of what the constitution and rule of law in this country should look like. 
That's nowhere near an argument for Trump deliberately and competently creating this. In fact, it's extremely easy to inadvertently sow chaos with incompetence. Your theory of Trump, the mastermind fascist magically getting superpowers in 2024 that he never had in 2016 is a real head-scratcher. And the polls reflect this ridiculous gaslight of reality that MSM prints daily with the blessings of the billionaire class. 40 percent approval for Biden with the most liberal leaning poll while Trump easily wins every battleground state. Like I remind FLRW, you guys need to step up the propaganda game, cause this aint working.
#236
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Is Trump really going to get into office and say 'thanks, but this time around I think I'll go with establishment figures to run my government'? No seriously, is that what you think?
I think Trump is going to do what he did in 2016, make the best guess, and let the chips fall where they may. If that's the case, expect more of the same. You don't seriously think in 2024 that the government is going to magically decide to stop destroying Trump....
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#237
Double_R
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@Greyparrot
I think it's very short sighted to refuse to entertain this as a real possibility that Trump is indeed, incompetent.
Do you seriously think Trump being incompetent means he can't also be maliciously negligent? Do you not understand that these aren't mutually exclusive things?

Your theory of Trump, the mastermind fascist magically getting superpowers in 2024 that he never had in 2016 is a real head-scratcher.
You're inability to understand really basic arguments is the head scratcher here. I've already explained how 2016 is different today 2024, and it has nothing to do with superpowers. Learn to read.

I think Trump is going to do what he did in 2016
Right, cause I'm sure those 2 impeachments, 4 indictments, and him as a clinical narcissist losing the election will have no impact on his approach to governing, just as it didn't with Putin and Hitler.

#238
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@Double_R
 just as it didn't with Putin and Hitler.
Hitler never failed as a president for 4 years and Putin was never impeached by his own government. I am as very confident with my predictions as you are with your ham-fisted comparisons.

#239
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@Greyparrot

You have to admit that Trump has the lowest IQ of any American President. Also he was the first person to make a Slovenian sex worker a First Lady.
#240
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@FLRW
Exactly. Not a real threat.