My very own, new political ideology

Author: Swagnarok

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This is an introduction to Programmatic Civicism, which is my highest political ideology. It doesn't come up in my daily posts here when I'm in "Those dagnab liberals suck for X or Y reason" mode, but it's the highest political ideal that I would like to see pursued. It is both an ideal and a feasible possibility, because Programmatic Civicism describes a tangible method of arriving at that ideal.

At the foundation of Programmatic Civicism is the following principle: that in order to build a better society, one should make better people who together comprise that society. Depending on the role you see for government in making a better society, you might disagree that this is the exclusive means of doing so. But I think everyone, left or right, can agree that it would be a huge step in the right direction if realized. Thus, Programmatic Civicism is not inherently a left or right wing ideology. It could either belong to whatever camp a given adherent happens to fall into, or it could lie outside the left-right spectrum altogether.

But there lies the problem which it aims to solve: how do you realize the ideal you have in your head? Isn't that ideal most likely to remain a product of one's imagination and never become anything more?
In short, how do you bridge the gaping divide between theory and practice?

To answer this question, Programmatic Civicism has the following prescriptions:

1. Setting aside lofty questions of free will and individual responsibility, it accomplishes nothing to tell a man who's lapsed into poor behavioral and decision-making patterns "Shame on you, you b*stard!" and not offer him the means of getting better. Rehab isn't exclusively the domain of drug addicts but of criminals, underachievers, the undereducated, overeaters, the sedentary, people who harm their relationships with family, those with other negative personality traits, etc.

2. In a subversion of conventional wisdom, the hypocrite is a myth rather than a true villain.
It is always easier to give advice than to follow it yourself, and it's easier to be motivated to take hard action by someone else's compulsion than it is to motivate yourself. Rather than obstinately braying "HYPOCRITE! HYPOCRITE!" when someone tries to help you accomplish something that they haven't, the smart person would see this as a psychology hack which can be exploited. Instead of the masses listening passively to the instruction of a guru who has to pretend he's perfect (until some investigative journalists prove he isn't and the entire thing crumbles like a house of cards), two unmotivated people can "teach" one another to rise to the level of competency that they themselves would like to attain. The accountability group structure is where the most potential for improvement lies, and everyone in society ought to be plugged into such.

3. The accountability group structure needs to be designed well to produce good results. Were this not the case, anyone who attended regular AA meetings would be a well-adjusted, highly productive member of society (and we know they often aren't), since Alcoholics Anonymous has a sort of accountability group structure. A design, which I call a "program", should have many rules and protocols tailored to yield results. Below, I will list some design principles of a program that's in line with Programmatic Civicism:

3.1. Hard rehab
Metaphorically speaking, when neurons in your brain fire according to a certain habit, you "tread that path with a wheelbarrow" and "wear a groove" in the road, making it hard to turn left or right the next time. Which is to say that behavior, when repeated, reinforces itself as a habit. It took a great deal of time and repetition to arrive at the lifestyle a person is living now, so it will take a great deal of time and repetition to replace it with something healthier.
In drug rehab, the "gold standard" is 90 days, because this loosely corresponds to the amount of time needed to make or break a habit. With that much time, one can arrive at the ability to live every day without that to which they were accustomed.

3.2. Mythopoeia
What hard rehab does is establish a new "baseline" for one's behavior. But it doesn't shield one from temptations to relapse upon returning to society. For this, they need a reason to avoid doing so.
Self-improvement movements are known to utilize mythopoeia, which is a fancy word for myth-making. There's an entire Wikipedia article on the Mythopoetic Men's Movement, which thrived around the 1980s and 1990s. If you've watched enough Vice documentaries on YouTube, you may be familiar with the type: men are in a wilderness retreat with pseudo-Indian vibes, somebody beats on a drum, misquotes Carl Jung, and says something like "You've completed your hero's journey. Peter Pan has grown up from a boy into a proper man. Congratulations."
Basically, these programs used the power of suggestion to convince attendees "My life has been changed by the 48 hours I spent here", in the hopes that that belief would help the personal benefits the program aimed to impart stick. It wasn't different in principle from the proverbial 30 year old alcoholic felon who found Christ, turned his entire life around, and broke into the middle class with a wife and kids by age 45.
Of course, the self-improvement industry is rife with charlatans and perverse incentives, such as making fortunes by selling the temporary feeling of transformation and personal growth in lieu of its actual substance. Additionally 48 hours of indoctrination isn't enough time to make someone truly believe that the idea being suggested is true. But the point here is that a "rehab program" combined with believable and inspiring "myths" can give a graduate reason to stick with it afterwards.

The third and final step is the day-to-day accountability group. When done intensively, and when underpinned by the aforementioned two steps, the result can be an upward spiral for most people enrolled in said program. This would, just to be clear, be a program one is part of for life, though certain steps like rehab would be one-time only. It would occupy a great deal of one's time and energy and would rise to the level of a religious cult, though without a charismatic leader who can abuse and exploit the flock.

To tie it altogether, here is a specific example of how such a program would be organized:
You are invited to a 90-day wilderness retreat where you eat right, sleep right, live according to a schedule, exercise your body, exercise your mind, and have nothing to entertain you besides a larger-than-life message that seems to have reached you from a supernatural place of origin. Then you go home and are part of the group for life. It is leaderless and its members are governed by a pre-established set of rules. Everyone has an accountability partner, with whom they discuss things over the phone and in person, set plausible weekly, monthly, and yearly goals for life improvement, and are disciplined by (to the level of severity that one consents to) if they fail to meet those goals. Ideally, one would live with his accountability partner so that the two of them are constantly in touch. There's no need for a big commune; a group of two or three living together in an apartment is enough.
For most people, the first priority would be career. They'd aim to break into more economically productive jobs and make more money. Next would be things like being healthy, and then one's relationships with friends and family, then broader philanthropy, and finally miscellaneous personal issues or goals. The group would constitute a web of interpersonal connections through which people can get to know each other and find likeminded business partners. Motivated by an outpouring of friendship and generosity between men, there would be a sharing of advanced technical knowledge needed to build a 21st century economy, keep the US competitive with foreign powers like China, and grow GDP large enough to keep the national debt from swallowing us whole.

In short, a well-designed program that takes off and reaches this country's 300,000,000 citizens could basically solve our problems and save us from pending national collapse.
As for what precisely this "well-designed program" would be, it depends on who's founding such a group. The best way forward is for many different groups to be founded with many different approaches, in the hope that one of them actually takes off and transforms America. These groups should be volunteer-run and not money-making enterprises. Members should pay no dues to an organization, much less to a singular person. Greed is a cancer which has infested, tainted, and destroyed the whole reputation of the self-help industry, and it is a pitfall the Programmatic Civicist would do best to avoid if he wishes to succeed where all others before him have failed.

Anyway, this is it.
I'm not delusional enough to think that my average post here on DART, or previously on DDO, has been of any real value to the world. But in this forum thread, I think, has been put forward a truly novel idea that's never been strung together by anyone else in exactly this form. All I can ask you to do is read this and judge for yourself whether or not Programmatic Civicism has serious merit to it.
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@Swagnarok
This is an introduction to Programmatic Civicism, which is my highest political ideology.
This is not an ideology (except for advocating for Brazilian style crime policy (Brazil abolished life imprisonment and the death penalty; so they believe in rehabilitation); Programmatic Civicism is a lifestyle choice.

Attending Alcoholics Anonymous is a lifestyle choice; not an ideology.
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I get drunk and watch Hunger Games.

I find that a better way to live life than:
You are invited to a 90-day wilderness retreat where you eat right, sleep right, live according to a schedule, exercise your body, exercise your mind, and have nothing to entertain you besides a larger-than-life message that seems to have reached you from a supernatural place of origin
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@TheUnderdog
They made crime organizations conparible to unions and civic organizations too, right? Or was that venezuela .....hm...
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@Swagnarok
Factory farming and a mono-education.

Any other attempt at human conformity is like pissing in the wind.


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There are no solutions to anything, just trade offs.  For example: Do you want the homeless to live in the streets down town in front of businesses thus driving away business or do you want them outside of town in the woods. Either way there will always be homeless people. I don't care how many houses you build and how much money you throw at the problem. Maintaining a house requires effort and responsibility. That means a having to work and earn money and spend it on the house and not on drugs and alcohol.
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@sadolite
do you want them outside of town in the woods
How would they buy alcohol in the woods?
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@Best.Korea
more worthless babble
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@sadolite

more worthless babble
I know, can you believe Trump?
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@FLRW
more worthless incoherent babble
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I know, Truth Social, am I right?
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@sadolite
There are no solutions to anything, just trade offs.
That's true with normal politics. But what I'm proposing is as close to a win-win as one could get. The trade-off is that you sacrifice three months of your life, and that afterward you can't live in as laid-back a manner as you did before. But for a lot of people this would be a small price to pay for breaking into the middle-class, having a wife and lots of friends, and being in good shape at 60.
And if you happen to not think it's worth the price, then just say no to the recruiters who represent these groups.

For example: Do you want the homeless to live in the streets down town in front of businesses thus driving away business or do you want them outside of town in the woods.
Programmatic Civicism picks the third option: cure their mental and behavioral issues which made them homeless in the first place.
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@Swagnarok
Programmatic Civicism picks the third option: cure their mental and behavioral issues which made them homeless in the first place.

Dont it always seem to go, that we dont know what we got til its gone.

Loose mental stability and we may take notice life is more difficult as  resultant thereof.

Loose higher paying job for less paying job.

Etc, so on and so on.  However, we also have to take into account what any job may being doing to us physically and mentally. Yes, opportunity in 1st world countries is so much more than other. Still, it may take more motivation  to move to another county, or state, depending on our existing set of circumstances with family connections etc.

I never got past blame so never took on positions of manager, as that would mean my head { mentally } would be out there more available to be chopped off mentally.  Even with all my advantages other than my family circumstances as a child, It was easy enough to find work enough to get by, without sticking my head out there and risk getting chopped off.  

It is easy to judge others from a distance, tho not always correct thing to do.

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@Swagnarok
 "Cure their mental and behavioral issues" Genius, I wonder why nobody thought of that.
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@sadolite
Why do you always sound angry?
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@Best.Korea
"Why do you always sound angry?"  Imagine some one  on a website responding to your posts with unending mindless babble.
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@sadolite
Imagine some one  on a website responding to your posts with unending mindless babble.
Dont imagine that. Imagine your happy place.

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@Best.Korea
More unending mindless babble
FLRW
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@Best.Korea

Why is he always talking about Truth Social?
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@sadolite
More unending mindless babble
 omg UwU :3 hi
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@FLRW
Maybe he is popular there.
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@Swagnarok
I come from a different political wheelhouse than you, but given the lack of critical engagement with your ideas, I thought I might chime in. Much of what I have to write are immediate impressions and shouldn't be taken too seriously.


Theory and Praxis
I think you could be more specific on how this programmatic civicism would bridge theory and praxis. I buy that changing people's psychology through group "therapy" would make them more amenable to mythic ideas that might, in turn, support a preferred social ontology or political project. But the aforementioned is my assumption. Is this the connection between theory and praxis you are aiming at? It would help to describe precisely what this civic therapy is meant to fix. Is it... everything up to and including "negative personality traits?"


Left and Right
I can see how this model could fit leftist and right-leaning (rightist?) political projects, but I think you might overstate the model's applicability. I don't see how someone like Ayn Rand would be able to support any version of programmatic civicism in the manner you describe because programmatic civicism imposes a significant moral burden on subjects and embraces a communitarian, non-individualistic, manner of living. People under programmatic civicism are forced into "accountability" groups, life partnerships, and reciprocal-care relations with people not of their choosing. Even if the government does not dip its toes into enforcement, this is a lot of control to have over a group of people. Example: Since the therapy session you describe is not chaired by a leader, the rules are "pre-established" - but pre-established by who? One would think the non-profit organizations running the therapy. This might rankle some libertarians, which is a decidedly non-neutral ideological valence for programmatic civicism to have. How this would impact adoption across the left and right spectrum I'm not entirely sure of, but it's unlikely that it does nothing.


The program also encourages an "intensive" accountability group program - that's fine - but it also means having the capacity to know and sanction non-compliance with the rules (mythic principles will only go so far). Otherwise (as you note), you end up with something like Alcoholics Anonymous where the "end-results" don't line up with the program's intentions (incidentally, I am curious whether relapse is due to faults in individual AA chapters, or more due to the nature of recovering from alcoholism itself, or from the program as a whole irrespective of individual chapters). To do this, intensive surveillance seems necessary. Bentham's panopticon would have to be in full effect to capture non-compliance. Surveillance is another barrier to adoption as an ideologically neutral politics.


As a side note: I know you said that one has to consent to being disciplined in terms of the level of its severity, which seems like a way around this issue, but then people could plausibly never consent to punishment, defanging the whole operation.


Better Citizens?
I'm not too sure what needs to be changed about citizens to make them "better." Is it that we want them to become more moderate? Less polarized? I'm not sure, and I'm less sure if "less polarized" (if that is what "better" means within this context) is good. Regardless, I see potential objections to using the langugage of "therapy" in the context you prescribe - to create "better" citizens. This intervention seems designed to ameliorate conflict (or at least, "calling out,") in a manner that hampers legitimate conflict between people. When someone is called a "bad citizen" or a "hypocrite," it is not necessarily because people want them to "get better" through therapy (though sometimes this is the case), these terms are also deployed to demarcate lines of contestation and enmity. Camaraderie is not the baseline of democratic experience. Division seems to be the "norm" for democratic ontology. A good way to test this theory is by asking yourself what you are willing to compromise on.


Myths
There is actually precedent for myths being used to form a civic politics. Jean-Jacques Rousseau writes about the importance of maintaining a "civic religion" maintained by the state in the penultimate chapter of The Social Contract and, in Book II Ch. 7, maintains that a supremely wise "lawgiver" (alternatively translated as law-maker or legislator), often appeals to the gods in order to constitute a "good" people. Much of Rousseau's works support public rituals (e.g., his work on the theater and politics) that take on a mythical quality.


Even earlier, Plato used myth-making throughout The Republic to distribute appropriate roles to citizens in his utopian Kallipolis (see his Myth of Metals).


In any case, modernity has not done away with mysticism. The story of the American founding is mythical since it spawned a considerable number of idealized conceptions of self-government. The US has its own civic rituals - the pledge of allegiance, the star-spangled banner, and the swearing-in of public officials, to name a few. Even "the people" is a mythical category that is hard to realize and render (to answer the question "who belongs to the people?" one has to ask "the people," causing a problem of infinite regress).


There are arguments against mythical approaches to politics. What you are advocating for could be considered indoctrination. I am more inclined to let this pass though because I have more pressing observations.


Time
A ninety-day retreat is unworkable within my schedule. I would imagine for most people, a ninety-day retreat is unworkable. People have responsibilities outside of becoming better citizens. Routine chores, work, education, etc., have to be balanced with programmatic civicism's imposition. The people who can take a ninety-day vacation probably skew toward rich people. If civic progressivism aims at establishing a new form of participatory politics, it probably should include the whole of the populous (as you mention, the entirety of the 300 million people in the U.S.). How does one get around the problem of time without radically altering the weight of people's personal, financial, and familial responsibilities? And if one must change the weight of these responsibilities, how and where does one even start?


On a related note, are we assuming that people already have business connections before being thrust in the wilderness? If so, I don't see how this strategy would increase employment if people were already networking and getting jobs before they join the civic therapy session. In which case: rich people, who can afford to leave their job for a long time, meet up and become life partners, exchanging contact information and networking so they can become richer.


I think the sharpest critique I can muster along these lines is this: this might not be a fair use of everyone's time. To expect 300 million people with varying backgrounds to participate is a bit of a stretch without significant alleviation of their other responsibilities.


Suggestibility
Another problem I foresee is that some people are just more skeptical of mythopoetic principles being espoused. One would have to be invested in the group, their life partner, and the guiding mythos of their resort for much transformation of character to occur. In short, people need to be suggestible, and while a sizeable chunk of the population might be, I see others being dismissive of the "grand ideals" of any organization with mythopoetic pretensions.


Conclusion
I like what you are doing here, notwithstanding some of my more critical notes. What I buy is that living in a democratic society comes with obligations that do not come naturally to citizens. If you are so inclined to think more about this, I recommend picking up Danielle Allen's book "Talking to Strangers" and/or her pandemic book "Democracy in the Time of Coronavirus." Alternatively, it might help to look at scholarship on more participatory forms of democracy - mini-publics research and deliberative democratic experiments for a start.

As far as "mythopoetics," I would recommend (if you haven't already) reading Plato's magnum opus "The Republic." It's dry sometimes, but it invokes myth-making a lot. Additionally, checking out Susan Buck-Morss's work on Dreamworlds might interest you as well.



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@blamonkey
I think you could be more specific on how this programmatic civicism would bridge theory and praxis.
Here"theory" refers simply the idea that the average citizen ought to improve substantially more than they usually will in their lifetime and at a substantially faster rate of progress. It's not like I'm smart enough to write a Marxian theoretical exploration of the concepts described here. It's all pretty basic stuff.

If "praxis" is taken to mean how this ideal is to be realized in practice, then the core question is how to actually motivate people to do what they have the head knowledge to do but probably won't.
Programmatic Civicism's selling point is that, if said program came into existence, undermotivated people could say "I give you permission to make me do what I know I ought to be doing". Right now there's no widely available option to that effect in American society. If it did exist, and if most people could be convinced to utilize it, and if the execution was effective, then said abridgement would occur.

It would help to describe precisely what this civic therapy is meant to fix. Is it... everything up to and including "negative personality traits?"
The assumption here is that self-improvement is a life-long journey, but that certain things take immediate priority. One could search for other things to improve once those priorities have been sufficiently met. Hypothetically, given an unlimited amount of time, that could mean "everything", but of course people don't have an unlimited amount of time. And self-improvement would have to be tempered against such realities as people needing breaks and time off.

I can see how this model could fit leftist and right-leaning (rightist?) political projects, but I think you might overstate the model's applicability
I'm not confidently claiming that there is no political ideology this would be incompatible with. But your average liberal, conservative, Christian, atheist, Jew, Muslim, libertarian, nationalist, communist, anarchist, fascist, or socialist could find some coherent iteration of these ideas that was amenable to their existing belief systems.

I don't see how someone like Ayn Rand would be able to support any version of programmatic civicism in the manner you describe because programmatic civicism imposes a significant moral burden on subjects
From what little I've read, Ayn Rand took selfishness and lack of altruistic regard for others to be a positive moral good to be encouraged. Programmatic Civicism, in contrast, does have a moral center. That being said, very few Americans are Objectivists.

programmatic civicism imposes a significant moral burden on subjects
It's long-accepted in Western philosophy that, within rational limits, being a good person can increase one's own happiness.
Goals like "I want to go from my current gig as a janitor at IBM to one of their programmers" can be thought of as selfish, discounting the greater value added to society by more skilled labor than less skilled labor. Sure. But once you've done that, once your salary has improved to the point where you can afford your own house and you're no longer stressed out by bills you struggle to pay, going for more and more money will eventually yield diminishing returns when it comes to happiness added to your life. Once you arrive at that point, the optimal pursuit of further happiness would mean branching out and finding other goals, such as finding purpose in making the world a better place.
I'd argue that, so long as the group doesn't pressure you into altruism before your lower needs are met, but instead waits until the appropriate time, then they aren't working against you to your detriment but for you to your benefit. As for when certain conversations should and shouldn't happen, the group(s) would need to work out its norms and protocols through discussion and experience.

programmatic civicism ...embraces a communitarian, non-individualistic, manner of living
This is half-true. Programmatic Civicism's aim would be to achieve individual goals through the collective structure. For those initial 90 days you'd have minimal freedom and would have to live in an intentional community, but that's a small fraction of your overall lifespan.

People under programmatic civicism are forced into "accountability" groups, life partnerships, and reciprocal-care relations with people not of their choosing
Fair enough. Obviously there wouldn't be GIs pointing a gun to your head and forcing you to keep participating for life even if you decide not to, but I can understand how "it can be hard to leave" something you've been involved with for a long time.

Example: Since the therapy session you describe is not chaired by a leader, the rules are "pre-established" - but pre-established by who?
Somebody would have to get the ball rolling. And yes, there'd be potential for that person to exercise undue influence over the group. Related to the point of myth-making, ideally there would be a myth that the person who founded the group and drafted its rules was somebody else, and that that person stepped away forever after doing so once. The founder, per this myth, would be one member out of many, bound to the decided-on rules to the same degree as anyone else and unable to amend them further.
I'll use the Founding Fathers for analogy; once they ratified the Constitution, they couldn't snap their fingers and decide to undo it. It was done and out of their hands.

The program also encourages an "intensive" accountability group program - that's fine - but it also means having the capacity to know and sanction non-compliance with the rules
The highest leverage that the group would have, assuming you don't consent to be punished by it, would be expulsion or suspension from its ranks.

but then people could plausibly never consent to punishment, defanging the whole operation.
The reason most people would consent is because they know it's in their rational long-term best interests to do so. Having a lot of bad habits and a wimpy character causes one to make overall less-rational choices because it's more expedient to do so in the short-term; the 90 days would serve, through instilling a tougher character and better habits, to empower one to act on their rational impulses as opposed to their irrational ones.
The question I haven't yet answered is how one could force compliance with the program during those 90 days. This period would have to be more coercive than that afterward. Morally I have fewer qualms with this so long as the initial decision to do the 90 days was freely made. In terms of how this wouldn't be illegal (that is, not kidnapping), I suppose the participant could be made to sign a binding contract as a condition of taking part.

I'm not too sure what needs to be changed about citizens to make them "better."
Make people who are more competent in holding down jobs, learning how to perform new jobs, navigating the market to find jobs, networking with people to find business opportunities, making better grades in college and retaining more info, having a greater interest in spending one's leisure time on intellectual pursuits and learning as opposed to watching reality TV or video gaming, eating better, sleeping better, being physically fitter, not smoking or overconsuming alcohol, being more outgoing and social, asking that girl out instead of being too shy, volunteering and/or serving as a community leader, etc. These are some pretty common-sense definitions that most people wouldn't object to.

Is it that we want them to become more moderate? Less polarized? I'm not sure, and I'm less sure if "less polarized" (if that is what "better" means within this context) is good
My position is that, as confident as you and I both are in the candidates we vote for on election day, we don't have the wisdom to make truly good political choices. A virtuous public would. As for what their politics would look like, we can't know yet.

This intervention seems designed to ameliorate conflict (or at least, "calling out,") in a manner that hampers legitimate conflict between people.
Fair enough, I guess.

Camaraderie is not the baseline of democratic experience.
Also fair.

A ninety-day retreat is unworkable within my schedule. I would imagine for most people, a ninety-day retreat is unworkable.
Taking 90 days off work amounts to accepting unemployment in most cases. We already accept this as a sacrifice worth making in contexts like higher education; for example, if you're spending 20-25 hours a week in class plus homework, then you're not likely to concurrently be able to hold a stable 50-hour-a-week job. Unlike college, you would typically have no living expenses during the retreat. Enough provisions to not die would be procured ahead of time and then you'd stay there and rough it out. They would live in a tent and eat dried food.
I'm not going to pretend that everyone's life circumstances could accommodate this exact setup. The particular scheme I have in mind is best suited for young men without family to support. Since that's what I am, that's my life experience, and that's the demographic I'd target if I were to ever seriously attempt this myself. But I'm sure that different program designs could be drafted to meet the needs of other segments of America.

On a related note, are we assuming that people already have business connections before being thrust in the wilderness?
We aren't. The point of the retreat isn't to make connections there, but to get you up to a level of competency where you can go establish connections in the workplace.
And if the group's well-established and successful, then the person inducting you into the group could hook you up with people. I'm envisioning a hierarchical structure that goes like this:

Bob: Inducted 10 guys, including Bruce
Bruce: Inducted 10 guys, including Kevin
Kevin: Inducted 10 guys, including Mike

Suppose one of Bob's guys is well-suited to enter into a commercial partnership with Mike. It'd take 3 conversations for Mike to be hooked up with that guy: Mike asks his immediate higher-up Kevin, who asks his immediate higher-up Bruce, who knows one of the guys initiated with him who currently has the desirable credentials.
The group's structure would be internally easy to visualize, making it simple to navigate. And unlike, say, browsing LinkedIn, embedded in these 3 conversations would be Kevin vouching (or declining to vouch) that Mike's a solid guy who would be a reliable partner, a dynamic you don't get on the internet.

Another problem I foresee is that some people are just more skeptical of mythopoetic principles being espoused. 
I envision the mythopoeia as being something that you're exposed to during the initiation. For those willing to believe, it's a bonus thrown in to "sweeten the deal" of living a disciplined life. But if you don't believe it, then you might still participate by virtue of it being the rational choice.
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@blamonkey
People under programmatic civicism are forced into "accountability" groups, life partnerships, and reciprocal-care relations with people not of their choosing.
Great. More government meddling in private lives. I completely overlooked that.

Did you know that any government violation of private lives of citizens can be easily justified by saying its for the greater good?

Example:
Force alcohol addicts into help programs because alcohol contributes to violence and reducing alcohol reduces violence.

Its interesting how greater good leads to totalitarian state.
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@Swagnarok
Fair enough. Obviously there wouldn't be GIs pointing a gun to your head and forcing you to keep participating for life even if you decide not to, but I can understand how "it can be hard to leave" something you've been involved with for a long time.
Well, is it voluntary or not? Because if its voluntary, I wont participate, and if its not voluntary, then I cant refuse to participate.

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In muslim countries, they beat you up if you drink alcohol.

Its justified by the greater good.
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@Best.Korea
Well, is it voluntary or not? Because if its voluntary, I wont participate, and if its not voluntary, then I cant refuse to participate.
This doesn't exist. It's just a cool idea I've got in my head.

But if it did, then voluntary. Most people who signed up would do so because they'd realize that they're getting older but not getting anywhere in life they haven't been before.