EMOTION = Private Axioms

Author: 3RU7AL ,

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  • 3RU7AL
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    Everything that is considered a "mystery" or "sheer opinion" is, in-fact, PERFECTLY LOGICAL.

    The "mystery" is simply a consequence of Private Axioms.

    Before Democritus, people believed the weather was (fundamentally) unpredictable and reasoned it was subject to the (mysterious and inscrutable) personal whims of the gods (which were also presumed to be fundamentally unpredictable).

    Democritus figured out that, with proper data, weather can be predicted.

    Democritus identified the Axioms of weather patterns.

    Pythagoras observed the natural world, very carefully, and noticed (among other things) that musical notes that "sound right" are comprised of strings that have particular proportions relative to each other.

    Pythagoras did not invent music of course, he did not even invent the idea of instruments, but he devised an occult (secret) system that he only shared with his most trusted acolytes (and even murdered those who might share this occult system with the uninitiated or his rivals, the followers of Cylon), this occult (secret) system applied, not only to music, but to nearly all observable natural phenomena.  Those lucky few who knew the code were better able to predict outcomes than everyone else.

    The code dispelled the precious "mystery".

    The physical world always functioned according to logic, but the axioms were unknown and therefore the physical world appeared to be "unpredictable".

    Pythagoras identified the Axioms of nature.

    It seems insane that so many seem to love and protect the "mystery" (appeal to ignorance) so much.
  • Mopac
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    Is a mystery something to be understood or solved, or is mystery an experience? A priest once told me that it was the later, and I took it as something very profound.

    Eucharist means "thanksgiving". It is considered a holy mystery of the orthodox faith. Is thanksgiving something to be solved or understood? No, it really is something to be experienced.

  • 3RU7AL
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    --> @Mopac
    Is a mystery something to be understood or solved, or is mystery an experience? A priest once told me that it was the later, and I took it as something very profound.
    I agree that "mystery" is an experience (Qualia).  A "mystery" is not a measurable thing or event or property of matter (Quanta).

    Can we Quantify Qualia?  Sometimes we can and sometimes we can't, but it makes sense to me that we should at least try.

    Eucharist means "thanksgiving". It is considered a holy mystery of the orthodox faith. Is thanksgiving something to be solved or understood? No, it really is something to be experienced.
    Middle English eukarist, from Anglo-French eukariste, from Late Latin eucharistia, from Greek, Eucharist, gratitude, from eucharistos grateful, from eu- + charizesthai to show favor, from charis favor, grace, gratitude; akin to Greek chairein to rejoice [LINK]

    However, the term "eucharist" as it is used in modern times is "a ritual in which followers pretend to commit cannibalism".

    The less you explain it (protect/preserve the mystery with arcane terminology), the more appealing it seems.
  • Mopac
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    --> @3RU7AL
    Man does not live by bread alone, but by The Word that proceeds from God.
    Who is The Son of The Trinity? The Word of God.

    Everything was created by and through The Word of God.


    So when we eat the bread and drink the wine, we are literally eating the body and blood of Jesus Christ as The Word made Flesh.

    That sure is a lot of mystery there. It has to be that way.

    So recognizing that we rely of The Word of God is how we are thankful. 


    Really, every meal should be eucharist. That is why we pray over and bless our food. Keeping God always in our thoughts is how we pray unceasingly. Life really should be eucharist.


    And I can certainly say that one of the most life changing decisions I ever made was to make the entire month of November Thanksgiving. I never stopped. Now every day is thanksgiving. I am a great deal better off for it.

    A lot of mystery there.

  • 3RU7AL
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    --> @Mopac
    Man does not live by bread alone, but by The Word that proceeds from God.Who is The Son of The Trinity? The Word of God.Everything was created by and through The Word of God.So when we eat the bread and drink the wine, we are literally eating the body and blood of Jesus Christ as The Word made Flesh.That sure is a lot of mystery there. It has to be that way.So recognizing that we rely of The Word of God is how we are thankful.Really, every meal should be eucharist. That is why we pray over and bless our food. Keeping God always in our thoughts is how we pray unceasingly. Life really should be eucharist.And I can certainly say that one of the most life changing decisions I ever made was to make the entire month of November Thanksgiving. I never stopped. Now every day is thanksgiving. I am a great deal better off for it.A lot of mystery there.
    The more you try to explain it, the less appealing it becomes.

    If you love "mystery" so much, you really should stop trying to ruin it for everybody.
  • Mopac
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    --> @3RU7AL
    Maybe I shouldn't.

    But the point is, we don't pretend to be cannibals.

    And the other even bigger point is that in the end, an attitude of gratitude will do much to serve you. God gives grace to the humble, but resists the proud. Practicing thanksgiving requires humility.
  • 3RU7AL
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    --> @Mopac
    But the point is, we don't pretend to be cannibals.
    Didn't you just say, "...we are literally eating the body and blood of Jesus Christ..."?

    And the other even bigger point is that in the end, an attitude of gratitude will do much to serve you. God gives grace to the humble, but resists the proud. Practicing thanksgiving requires humility.
    Expressing gratitude does have measurable positive psychological effects (by raising serotonin levels in the brain).

    No "mystery" required.


  • Mopac
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    --> @3RU7AL
    No, not pretending to eat the body of Christ at all. Certainly eating it. Certainly drinking the blood. But, you know, that is part of the mystery. You are right though, it is wrong of me to talk about. In fact, when we partake of the eucharist during the liturgy, the choir sings about not speaking of these mysteries! It is likely because of this accusation of cannablism. I am certainly in the wrong here.


    That all said, I don't think reducing something to a chemical process removes the mystery of experiencing it.

  • 3RU7AL
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    --> @Mopac
    No, not pretending to eat the body of Christ at all. Certainly eating it. Certainly drinking the blood. But, you know, that is part of the mystery. You are right though, it is wrong of me to talk about. In fact, when we partake of the eucharist during the liturgy, the choir sings about not speaking of these mysteries! It is likely because of this accusation of cannablism. I am certainly in the wrong here.
    (EITHER) your church wafers and wine contain human cells and dna (OR) jesus christ was a golem comprised primarily of wheat and grape juice.

    Please choose one or the other.

    That all said, I don't think reducing something to a chemical process removes the mystery of experiencing it.
    Understanding the chemical processes of our brains makes our behavior more predictable

    A mystery has no explanatory power precisely because it has no predictive power.
  • Mopac
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    --> @3RU7AL
    (EITHER) your church wafers and wine contain human cells and dna (OR) jesus christ was a golem comprised primarily of wheat and grape juice.


    "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."

    So do you believe man made everything?

    I think even you know that is silly. 

    Besides that, we Orthodox do not eat wafers and drink grape juice. That is a Roman Catholic thing, and maybe a practice of one the thousands of other churches that broke away from them. None of these churches are The Holy Catholic Apostolic Church. To be nice, we call them heterodox, but truly, it wouldn't be a stretch to call them heretical churches.


    Understanding the chemical processes of our brains makes our behavior more predictable.  

    A mystery has no explanatory power precisely because it has no predictive power.


    Maybe thanksgiving is not intended to have predictive or explanitory power. Maybe it is something, as I said, to be experienced. Faith without works is dead. Simply intellectualizing everything is like looking at a shadow of the truth rather than experiencing the truth.


  • 3RU7AL
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    --> @Mopac
    Maybe religion is not intended to have predictive or explanatory power.
  • keithprosser
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    --> @Mopac
    In the boring ordinary reality of atheists and scientists the wine stays wine and the wager stays wafer.  But in the thrilling and spiritual reality of faith they become blood and flesh. 

    When you have got you head around that, the difference in what the two camps mean by 'reality' becomes a little clearer!
  • Mopac
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    --> @3RU7AL

    Maybe that isn't supposed to be your motivation. 
  • Mopac
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    --> @keithprosser
    You mock and scoff, but "All things were made by The Word of God; and without The Word was not any thing made that was made.", and enlivened by The Holy Spirit.


    God is with us. God is among us. 


    And I know this for a fact, because I can see. You are blind, and won't see until your etes have been opened.


  • 3RU7AL
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    --> @Mopac
    Maybe that isn't supposed to be your motivation. 
    What is it good for? - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgJ11FW6B3E

  • Mopac
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    --> @3RU7AL
    At least not for you, but that is because your motivation is wrong and your standards are skewed by a clouded heart.

    You worship the creature rather than the creator, and as a result your heart is polluted by idolatry.

    The Orthodox Church is a hospital for such sicknesses. But make no mistake, God is the physician. 




  • 3RU7AL
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    The Orthodox Church is a hospital for such sicknesses. But make no mistake, God is the physician. 
    I'm just looking for the practical up-shot.
  • Mopac
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    --> @3RU7AL
    Godliness with contentment is great gain



  • 3RU7AL
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    --> @Mopac
    Godliness with contentment is great gain
    What do you mean by "godliness"?

    Do you mean "act like the old testament god"?

    Please sacrifice your best livestock specimen to me once a year to assuage my fury. 
  • Mopac
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    --> @3RU7AL
    There is only 1 God, and the "old testament God" is the same as the new Testament God.


    Perhaps godliness can be described as...

    "charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned."




  • 3RU7AL
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    --> @Mopac
    Perhaps godliness can be described as...

    "charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned."
    The "YHWH" does not have a conscience or a heart or faith and could solve all poverty and disease in the blink of an eye.

  • Mopac
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    The Existing One has given us the gift of free will. That means we can choose to work with God or reject God. What greater poverty is there than to be bankrupt of God? What greater disease than a heart sick against God?

    I would not blame God because people out of their own freedom have rejected The One who saves them.


  • 3RU7AL
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    The Existing One has given us the gift of poverty and disease.

    What does disease have to do with free-will?

    What do floods and fires and hurricanes and earthquakes have to do with free-will?

    What does poverty have to do with free-will?

    Do infants choose to be born into horrific circumstances?

    If gods can't even fix these problems, what hope do us mere humans have?
  • Mopac
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    I am speaking of no gods, I am speaking of God.

    The problem of evil amounts to little more than denying reality because it doesn't conform to one's arbitrary sense of aesthetics. If you recognize God as being The Truth, The Ultimate Reality, it is a nonsense argument.



  • 3RU7AL
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    --> @Mopac
    The problem of evil amounts to little more than denying reality because it doesn't conform to one's arbitrary sense of aesthetics. If you recognize God as being The Truth, The Ultimate Reality, it is a nonsense argument.
    Disease is not evil.

    Floods and fires and hurricanes and earthquakes are not evil.

    Poverty is not evil.

    I'm not talking about evil.