Christians are more violent than atheists

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02.01.2024 02:36PM

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02.01.2024 02:36PM

Christians have for centuries promoted all kinds of lies about atheists.

From being perverts to having no morality.

But truth turned out to be opposite.

Christian families tend to raise violent people.

While some have said that there are different types of Christians, and some are much better than others,

What obviously counts is average, and not cherry picking only good Christians and ignoring the bad.

Cherry picking is a statistical fallacy where you only pick good Christians to prove that Christians are good.

Conclusion of course, doesnt follow.

It would be like only picking smart atheists to prove that atheists are smart, or only picking good atheists to prove that atheists are good.

Statistically, what matters is average Christian vs average atheist, because for Christianity to be beneficial, it must be more beneficial as a whole compared against atheism.

If average Christian is more violent than average atheist, it follows that Christians are more violent and Christianity produces more violence.

Atheists make 0.1% of prison population, despite making 3% of the general population in USA.

Christians make up 65% of prison population, despite being 60% of population in USA.

So atheists ratio of population to prison is 30:1.

Christian ratio is 1:1.

So atheists are 30 times less likely to go to prison.

Now, some have thrown unsupported counter-argument that atheists in prison lie about being Christians.

We only know if someone is an atheist or Christian if they tell us.

To claim that we shouldnt trust people about that would just translate into not being able to say who is a Christian and who is atheist.

This would lead us to absurd position, but statistically, it still works against Christians.

Thats because if we replace "christian" with "people who say they are christian",

we still reach the conclusion that people who say that they are Christians, are more violent.

Statistics are not something which is easy to escape, as we can clearly see.

So Christians must concede that people who say that they are Christians are more violent than people who say that they are atheists.

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@Best.Korea

Shout "Allahu Akbar" at the moment of attack, Mohammed Atta told his men. Hijacked United Airlines Flight 175 from Boston crashes into the south tower of the World Trade Center and explodes at 9:03 a.m.

#3

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@Best.Korea

Christians have for centuries promoted all kinds of lies about atheists.

From being perverts to having no morality.

But truth turned out to be opposite.

How many centuries are you talking about? Can you provide a starting point with quotes?

Christian families tend to raise violent people.

While some have said that there are different types of Christians, and some are much better than others,

What obviously counts is average, and not cherry picking only good Christians and ignoring the bad.

Cherry picking is a statistical fallacy where you only pick good Christians to prove that Christians are good.

Conclusion of course, doesnt follow.

It would be like only picking smart atheists to prove that atheists are smart, or only picking good atheists to prove that atheists are good.

Statistically, what matters is average Christian vs average atheist, because for Christianity to be beneficial, it must be more beneficial as a whole compared against atheism.

If average Christian is more violent than average atheist, it follows that Christians are more violent and Christianity produces more violence.

Atheists make 0.1% of prison population, despite making 3% of the general population in USA.

Christians make up 65% of prison population, despite being 60% of population in USA.

So atheists ratio of population to prison is 30:1.

Christian ratio is 1:1.

Well atheism is not a religion, so there are probably more atheists that don't make any public profession, including those who are asked for statistical purposes (like in prison). Most of the atheists that do make a public profession we might call atheist activists. Either an atheist who is part of an organization that takes religion related issues to court, those active on the internet promoting atheism, or even those on discussion forums like this one. So with all the countless acts of violence committed by those we know nothing about, how could you know how many were Christian or atheist?

The problem with the claim about prison having more Christians than atheists is that there are a lot of conversions to Christianity within prison itself. Who are these converts? They couldn't all be atheists since they're such a small number. Obviously most of them are part of the Christian statistic you were referring to. They were cultural Christians, not active lifestyle Christians. In other words, those who grew up going to church, and only identify themselves as Christians from their upbringing, but not converted to Christ which means a change in lifestyle.

I'm guessing you're from Korea. I'm sure you're aware there are quite a few Christians in Korea and China. How are the Christians there? Are they violent?

Now, some have thrown unsupported counter-argument that atheists in prison lie about being Christians.

I think this is what I was talking about. It's not that they lie, but they state their religion by their upbringing. They grew up in a Methodist Church, and when asked, they say their religion is Christian, or they're a Methodist, Baptist, etc. They may not even believe in God.

We only know if someone is an atheist or Christian if they tell us.

Exactly! And thus the problem. Many atheists, probably the majority, don't make any public claim to being atheist. Many probably don't even think about it. They don't believe in God, and never talk about it to anyone.

To claim that we shouldnt trust people about that would just translate into not being able to say who is a Christian and who is atheist.

This would lead us to absurd position, but statistically, it still works against Christians.

Thats because if we replace "christian" with "people who say they are christian",

we still reach the conclusion that people who say that they are Christians, are more violent.

Statistics are not something which is easy to escape, as we can clearly see.

So Christians must concede that people who say that they are Christians are more violent than people who say that they are atheists.

Do you remember Anders Behring Breivik? He was the terrorist who targeted Muslims in his killing spree. After the incident occurred, a number of people claimed this as another terrorist attack from a Christian. However, he made things fairly clear in his manifesto. He identified both with Christianity and Norse pagan religion because of their cultural association with Norway. He also stated that one need not believe in God or Norse deities to be a part of these religions. In other words, one could be an atheist. So he couldn't really be a Christian in the purest sense because paganism and atheism are both non-Christian. He's most likely an atheist.

And this goes back to the problem of identifying who the converts are in prison. It's part of some of the false advertising for atheism a number of activists promote. Another example of false advertising is claiming that atheist nations are more peaceful than religious nations. The problem is that the nations they use for examples, like New Zealand and Sweden are not atheist nations. NZ and Sweden are secular nations just like the U.S. The term atheist nations seems to have been replaced by the term irreligious nations. But they never seem to include North Korea on their list. Of course some like to pull the ghost religion card for some ideology that involves some people worshiping their leader as a god. Although there is no such thing as an atheist nation in the official sense, NK and China would be the closest.

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#4

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@RoderickSpode

only identify themselves as Christians from their upbringing, but not converted to Christ which means a change in lifestyle.

This is cherry picking statistics.

Something I already covered, so I dont see why you felt the need to repeat the fallacy, after it was explained to you once.

they say their religion is Christian, or they're a Methodist, Baptist, etc. They may not even believe in God.

So their religion is Christian, but they dont believe in God?

Since we cannot open people's heads to check if they believe in God, what we are left with is again those who claim to be Christians and those who claim to be atheists.

Exactly! And thus the problem. Many atheists, probably the majority, don't make any public claim to being atheist. Many probably don't even think about it. They don't believe in God, and never talk about it to anyone.

Those are bunch of assumptions..

There are no atheists who dont claim to be atheists.

And even if there were, you wouldnt know it, thus unknown number, thus irrelevant to any statistic.

He's most likely an atheist.

An assumption. And a cherry pick of a case.

He also stated that one need not believe in God or Norse deities to be a part of these religions

An assumption which doesnt leave us with conclusion.

Another example of false advertising is claiming that atheist nations are more peaceful than religious nations

Religious nations did give us Hitler, Stalin and Mao, and basically exterminated 100 million native Americans, and have been the cause of almost every war in this and former century.

But atheist nations are almost non-existent.

Many people in China have religion, which, despite not being Christianity, is still a religion that cannot be considered atheism.

Japan also has religion, which might be closer to atheism, since their religion involves more praying to mountains and spirits of ancestors.

In North Korea, Kim family is considered supernatural, which could be atheism if we ignore that leader is considered literal God who cannot make a mistake and must be obeyed at all cost, but North Korea isnt exactly an example of non-peaceful society.

In fact, North Korea wasnt at war for over 70 years.

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Top 10 Countries with the Highest Percentage of Atheists - WIN-Gallup 2017:

China
91%
Japan
86%
Sweden
78%
Czech Republic
75%
United Kingdom
72%
Belgium
72%
Estonia
72%
Australia
70%
Norway
70%
Denmark
68%

#6

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02.01.2024 06:54PM

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6 Countries with the Highest IQ Scores in the World

1.Japan - 106.48
2. Taiwan - 106.47
3. Singapore - 105.89
4. Hong Kong - 105.37
5. China - 104.1
6. South Korea - 102.35

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@Best.Korea

Christian families tend to raise violent people.

I would say that is true. We are more aggressive due to our beliefs. Willing to fight for something?

As for your stats and claims, how many "Christians" are in prison for non-violent crime as opposed to violent crime?

On top of that, how many, when surveyed, were not "Christian" before they came in but were converted before the survey? Do they ask what religion they are when they are admitted to prison? I don't know.

#8

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02.01.2024 08:28PM

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@Best.Korea

Christians and atheists nowadays are the same.

Atheists are secular and worldly and today's christians are much like the world.

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02.01.2024 08:33PM

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@FLRW

If you can't solve all your problems including mortality, so much for high IQ.

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02.01.2024 08:34PM

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@DavidAZZ

How many christians you think are actually holy?

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02.01.2024 08:41PM

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@RoderickSpode

Christianity is a man made religion. Totally non biblical.

It stands to reason that christians so called are seen as hypocritical or labeled as such.

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@Mall

How many christians you think are actually holy?

Good question. I am of the belief that Christianity is full of fakes and scams. But my take is that if they are not Holy or at least striving to become such, then they are not a Christian.

What would be your definition of Holy?

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https://transformingcorrections.com/religious-identity-and-the-long-term-effects-of-religious-involvement-orientation-and-coping-in-prison/

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@Best.Korea

This is cherry picking statistics.

Something I already covered, so I dont see why you felt the need to repeat the fallacy, after it was explained to you once.

Because your statistics have nothing to do with violence. They are statistics similar to checking the box to identify one's race or ethnicity.

A Christian is someone who follows the teachings of Christ.

So their religion is Christian, but they dont believe in God?

Since we cannot open people's heads to check if they believe in God, what we are left with is again those who claim to be Christians and those who claim to be atheists.

Correct, just like the Norwegian terrorist stated.

Getting back to the prison issue:

“Jailhouse religion”—the sudden desperate piety of an inmate who’s up against it and hopes that God will somehow bail him out.I’m reminded of an inmate who spent 90 percent of his time in disciplinary confinement until he got “saved.” The change in his life was so dramatic that the institution was never the same. He never got into another fight after that. He started writing people while he was in prison in order to make restitution.

You can't just ignore the fact that Christian conversions take place within prison. And since the number of professed atheists are so small, they all can't be atheists. So unless you can address that, your point is meaningless.

A secular source by the way:

Christianity is a tool used in the prison system as a means to rehabilitate the incarcerated. This has been going on for decades. It's used because it's effective.

Those are bunch of assumptions..

There are no atheists who dont claim to be atheists.

And even if there were, you wouldnt know it, thus unknown number, thus irrelevant to any statistic.

Do you think all atheists are accounted for statistically? Because if not, your stats are meaningless.

An assumption. And a cherry pick of a case.

An assumption, yes. A cherry pick, no ,since I'm not making an absolute claim. I'm using him as an example of a cultural Christian who states belief in God is unnecessary.

Religious nations did give us Hitler, Stalin and Mao, and basically exterminated 100 million native Americans, and have been the cause of almost every war in this and former century.

All nations were religious. What did Sweden give us? And why are you relating Mao with religious nations?

I also asked you about what are the Christians in Korea like (and China). Did you miss that?

But atheist nations are almost non-existent.

Well there's no nations that identify themselves as an official atheist nation. So I'm not sure what your point is.

Many people in China have religion, which, despite not being Christianity, is still a religion that cannot be considered atheism.

Well, there's also Buddhism and Islam. Both, alongside Christians, experienced persecution from atheist leaders.

Japan also has religion, which might be closer to atheism, since their religion involves more praying to mountains and spirits of ancestors.

In North Korea, Kim family is considered supernatural, which could be atheism if we ignore that leader is considered literal God who cannot make a mistake and must be obeyed at all cost,

You seem more intent on presenting Japan as atheist, but hesitant with North Korea. The Kim family are atheists who control their citizens to the extent of allowing them to consider him a literal god. Do you think the Kim family really believe they are gods?

but North Korea isnt exactly an example of non-peaceful society.

In fact, North Korea wasnt at war for over 70 years.

So we should overlook their inhumanity, and consider them peaceful, or not non-peaceful because they haven't been at war for over 70 years?

And I suppose they never make threats of war to other nations?

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_North_Korea

02.01.2024 10:09PM

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@FLRW

Top 10 Countries with the Highest Percentage of Atheists - WIN-Gallup 2017:

Probably accurate. I think North Korea would fall in between there though. Wikipedia actually claims it's an official atheist State. Not sure about that though.

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02.01.2024 10:10PM

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@FLRW

6 Countries with the Highest IQ Scores in the World

This I wouldn't doubt. Out of curiosity, was there a particular reason for posting these stats?

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02.01.2024 10:14PM

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@RoderickSpode

I like pointing out that the USA ranks 29th in IQ if anybody looks it up. Hence, they made H L Mencken's prediction come true.

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n8nrgim

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n8nrgim

02.01.2024 10:26PM

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@Mall

@RoderickSpode

@DavidAZZ

How would you guys briefly describe your religious or spiritual beliefs or lack thereof

Topic's author

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02.01.2024 10:27PM

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@RoderickSpode

Because your statistics have nothing to do with violence. They are statistics similar to checking the box to identify one's race or ethnicity.

They are statistics about violence in relation to people who say that they are Christians.

A Christian is someone who follows the teachings of Christ.

I already explained to you two times that thats cherry picking, and irrelevant to the statistic about people who say that they are Christians.

Since you cannot know who really follows the teachings of Christ, your counter argument is nothing.

You can't just ignore the fact that Christian conversions take place within prison. And since the number of professed atheists are so small, they all can't be atheists. So unless you can address that, your point is meaningless.

Since you didnt say what number of them happen in prison, its not a counter argument.

Do you think all atheists are accounted for statistically?

Does it matter?

I'm using him as an example of a cultural Christian who states belief in God is unnecessary

Using an example of a deluded person saying nonsense, is again, cherry picking.

Maybe you dont know what cherry picking means?

Anyway, your comment is mostly assumptions. You assume that if leaders are atheist, that country is atheist too, when opposite is true in North Korea.

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02.01.2024 10:39PM

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@DavidAZZ

It's basically what the scripture says "You shall be holy, for I the LORD your God am holy."

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02.01.2024 10:49PM

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@n8nrgim

For the sake of the platform , I somewhat remain anonymous.

A good reason being is because I try to remain non bias when it comes to debating. That would also mean no individual can hold a pre-judged, pre-determined bias of me. Although there are those that somehow carry one in attempt to misrepresent , mis-characterize my arguments.

If you notice, I sway either side of the topics.

But I'll say this from what can be an objective perception or view. I see many religious charlatans under many titles to include christian. There are those who are genuine and those who are false prophets, false preachers, false teachers. As the other individual mentioned about scams, there are scammers.

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Tradesecret

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Tradesecret

02.01.2024 11:03PM

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@Best.Korea

Nope. Atheists worldviews like Nazi Germany, The Soviet Union, Communist China, Cambodia, Cuba inter alia, have killed more people than all the religions in history.

Hitler may have grown up as a Roman Catholic. But he rejected it. He may have used some of its terms, but so did Stalin.

Religious people over the years, including Christians have done much violence sadly. They have attempted to justify it. They have attempted to deny it. They have attempted to avoid, saying, "these so called religious people were not really part of our lot". And the fact is - who is to know? All we can deduce is that the labeled themselves as such.

Yet, the atheist worldviews, even if we exclude Nazi Germany (which is clearly a mistake) such as communism in China and Cambodia, and North Korea, and Soviet Union and Cuba, are intentionally Atheistic in their positions. And they have killed more people than all the religions of the world and they did it one century.

Now I expect to hear "no true Scotsman" arguments. Who will be the first?

Topic's author

#22

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02.01.2024 11:20PM

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@Tradesecret

Atheists worldviews like Nazi Germany, The Soviet Union, Communist China, Cambodia, Cuba inter alia, have killed more people than all the religions in history.

Germany was a Christian country.

A Christian country elected both Hitler and Stalin.

Christians placed them in power.

Christian countries started both world wars and killed hundreds of millions during the existence of Christianity.

And before you commit the cherry pick fallacy,

"Just because they say they are Christians, doesnt mean they are"

Would also mean

"Just because they say they are atheists, doesnt mean they are".

So you have only two options.

1. Concede that those who say that they are Christians are likely Christians, therefore relating Christianity to crime rate.

2. Concede that you dont know who is a Christian and who is an atheist, thus making it impossible to blame atheism for anything.

Of course, it already stands as fact that those who claim to be Christians are committing the most crimes, so I am guessing you will go for option 2 to save yourself from trouble.

#23

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02.01.2024 11:39PM

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02.01.2024 11:39PM

Christians have meetings at a clubhouse.

And the meetings differ on bad stuff.

Sunday service

To

Like when the " special few " meet in the forest at 3.00 am on the first Wednesday in June.

But they've been doing weekly meetings for atlest the last 1000 years anddddddd, if you go to church today , its like the first meeting .

What im trying to say is.

They've wasted 1000 years of meeting up.

Simple as that.

So they aint teaching.

Im not saying the atheists should be meeting up weekly.

But if we did.

If we did.

I cant help but feel.

In 1000 years of meetings

We wouldn't be still reading one fucken book.

It would be more constructive is what im saying.

Now for fun .

Imagin A Hieracy of atheists.

What would we call some of the high up ones.?

Topic's author

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@FLRW

Top 10 Countries with the Highest Percentage of Atheists - WIN-Gallup 2017:
China
91%
Japan
86%
Sweden
78%
Czech Republic
75%
United Kingdom
72%
Belgium
72%
Estonia
72%
Australia
70%
Norway
70%
Denmark
68%

According to Christians, countries with more atheists or more non-Christians should have more crime.

So why is person 50 times more likely to be killed in USA than in Japan?

OwO

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#25

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02.01.2024 11:42PM

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@Deb-8-a-bull

We wouldn't be still reading one fucken book

Sadly, God only gave Christians one fucking book that they can use.

Its kinda why atheists have the advantage, apparently not being forced to defend a 2000 year old nonsense.

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#26

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https://gitnux.org/atheist-crime-statistics/

02.01.2024 11:45PM

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Atheists are underrepresented in the prison population, with atheists making up approximately 0.1% of the prison population in the United States, whereas they make up about 3.1% of the general population.

Denmark, Sweden, and the Netherlands are among countries with highest rates of atheism, yet all three feature in the list of the 10 countries with the lowest homicide rates globally.

Atheists in the United States are less likely to commit crimes than the religiously affiliated, with only 0.2% of atheists serving jail time.

In a study conducted by Pew Research Center in 2016, it was found that atheism was less common in high-crime areas.

A study in New Zealand found that atheists had a lower crime rate, with only 0.6% of the sample group of atheists charged with a crime.

According to a German study in 2013, rates of crime among atheists were significantly lower than the national average, at only 1.3%.

In several measures of societal health such as homicide rates, the United Nations’ human poverty index, and child mortality rates, highly secular nations such as Norway and Sweden do extraordinarily well.

According to a UK study, the three least religious countries (Sweden, Denmark, and Norway) have the lowest burglary rates in the world.

So much for "those evil atheists".

#27

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02.01.2024 11:51PM

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02.01.2024 11:51PM

God use to get the christians going door to door killing people.

Today the same god doesn't push this.

It seem our little law systems things we made up.

Has ummmm, has curved god .

Its bloody shaped him.

Thats pretty fucking week man.

Or are the "teachings" diffrent these days.

I guess 1000 more years more meetings should clear shit up.

And ill just grab $5 bucks from ya.

Nah.

Ya cant do god in like a 3 week course.

For $78.00

He gave the book to the atheists to. .

Its for all

Apparently we are his children.

So yeah , thats cool.

#28

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02.02.2024 12:10AM

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02.02.2024 12:10AM

Id go with

The top 10 countries of atheist not including the ( SUPERSTITIOUS ) ones.

I doubt a Chinese person could smash a mirror and feel ok with it.

So thats the very start of that mind set.

But thats another post.

At my work i set up a obstacle course of bad superstitious stuff and my mates wimped out.

Under the laders breaking a mirror, on to the opening up of umbrellas inside , shoes on the table. Spilling salt.

It was soooooo figgen funny.

They wouldn't even sell me their souls .

#29

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