The bible on slavery

Author: TheUnderdog

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#1
TheUnderdog
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"Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear" (Ephesians 6:5).

The Christain apologist defense of this quote: Couldn't find anything (gotquestions.org Ephesians 6:5 - Search (bing.com)).

If one can't find a bible verse that contradicts this, then the bible is pro slavery.  Otherwise, the bible contradicts its self and therefore is not an all knowing document.

But, Lincoln the republican before law based on religion.

Yankees are based.

Burn the confederate flag.

And expand constitutional carry and no more vacciene mandates.
#2
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@TheUnderdog
Enslavement is all around us. In a modern world of commerce, all are enslaved monetarily.

Slavery isn't just a niche or pocket of downtrodden circumstances. 
#3
ADreamOfLiberty
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@TheUnderdog
Therefore, say to the people of Isra’el: ‘I am Adonai. I will free you from the forced labor of the Egyptians, rescue you from their oppression, and redeem you with an outstretched arm and with great judgments. 7 I will take you as my people, and I will be your God. Then you will know that I am Adonai your God, who freed you from the forced labor of the Egyptians. 

Exodus 6:6

Disclaimer: No longer christian, no dog in this fight, the bible is a book written by men of course it has contradictions. Just don't like obvious omissions in a narrative.
#4
Tradesecret
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@TheUnderdog
The Bible is neither pro-slavery nor anti-slavery. 

There are many OT passages that regulate slavery.  Some of these include "not kidnapping people to make them slaves".  Kidnapping people got you the maximum penalty of death. So given slavery did occur and was regulated how did people become slaves in the OT time in Israel?

Well, in two ways.  The first way was by way of war.  When Israel defended itself or attacked another people group, sometimes, the enemy was captured and not killed. These then became slaves.  Better to have them under your control than let them go to attack you again.  

The second way was by way of selling yourself as a bondservant or as an indentured slave. This was the cultural equivalence of taking out a loan. Israelites could sell themselves off in order to take out a loan. 

The conditions for Jewish slaves were that they were not slaves for life but for seven years. A term of seven years was the maximum time you could be a Jewish slave. Jewish slaves could seek an extension if they desired. It was the slave's choice. 

In the NT, slavery was not condemned.  Yet the Christian slaves acquired a new revelation from Jesus and Paul. They were told that in Christ, everyone was equal. Male and female. Barbarians, Greeks and Jews were equal. And slave and master were equal. This led to many Christian Slaves running away from their masters. From Paul's point of view, this became bad for the gospel. 

Since masters of slaves did not want their slaves to run away. They prohibited people from preaching the gospel and they prohibited people from becoming Christians. This made laws that such people doing so might be put in prison or killed. Paul was more concerned about the gospel spreading than he was about individual rights. 

That's what the 1 Corinthians 9 is all about. He is indicating that the gospel is more important than even the individual rights of an Apostle.  And that nothing should hinder this. 

Of course, in the NT, it was primarily the Romans and the Greeks who had slaves.  There are very few races of people in the history of the world who never had slaves.  

It was a presumption in law for most races, that a person OWNED their own body. And if they owned their own body, then they had a right to sell it. In our modern world, the new presumption is that "there are no property rights in a human person". This means effectively that you can't sell your body as a slave.  The only legal person who can force you to do something without your consent is the STATE.  Hence, although there are no private rights of ownership, there is a public ownership of each individual in our state. 

Also when it comes to the Bible, Christians teach, that EVERYONE is a slave.  There are no exceptions. We are either a slave to sin. Or we are a slave to righteousness. 
There is no other option.  
#5
WyIted
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@TheUnderdog
This does not make the bible pro slavery. It makes the bible pro obeying your master if you are a slave.
#6
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@Mall
Slavery isn't just a niche or pocket of downtrodden circumstances.

It's also indicative of a niche or pocket of up-treading circumstances.


So a hundred years or so from now, who will be the slave and what will be the master?
#7
Best.Korea
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Bible is a book of slavery.

They are slaves to God, government, masters, parents...

In fact, nothing in Bible even implies free thinking.

Most of the Bible teaches obedience.

Obey this, obey that...
#8
Mall
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@Tradesecret
The bible actually teaches we all are enslaved one way or the other.
#9
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@Best.Korea
Why should we be free thinkers when we didn't even create these brains to think with?
#10
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@zedvictor4
We're slaves now. That Master is the dollar bill.
#11
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@WyIted
Do you believe there's anyone that is free?
#12
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@Mall
We're slaves to material evolution.

And in terms of the evolution of species, this certainly includes the development of money as a controlling  influence.

After all we are just thinking, manipulative  organic blobs, who's purpose if any, seems to be the furtherment of material evolution.
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@Mall
We're slaves now. That Master is the dollar bill.

Nearly right.  The Master is the one with the most dollar bills.
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@Mall
We're slaves now. That Master is the dollar bill.

Nearly right.  The Master is the one with the most dollar bills.
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#15
TheUnderdog
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@Mall
Capitalism is not slavery.  Capitalism relies on mutual consent; slavery doesn't.
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#16
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@ADreamOfLiberty
That is evidence that the bible contradicts it's self and therefore should not be followed.
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@Tradesecret
There are many OT passages that regulate slavery.
Regulating slavery is a subset of keeping slavery legal.

Well, in two ways.  The first way was by way of war.  When Israel defended itself or attacked another people group, sometimes, the enemy was captured and not killed. These then became slaves.  Better to have them under your control than let them go to attack you again.  
Capturing an enemy is mass kidnapping.  War is mass murder.

The second way was by way of selling yourself as a bondservant or as an indentured slave. This was the cultural equivalence of taking out a loan. Israelites could sell themselves off in order to take out a loan. 
For me, the issue is not a consenting adult choosing to sell themselves; the issue is if they have kids, then those kids become slaves through no fault of their own.  If you have $3 billion more of debt and you die and you have a kid, your kid should not be forced to take on your debt.  This is the argument BLM uses with reparations and I don't agree with it.  I hold Christianity to the same standard.

Of course, in the NT, it was primarily the Romans and the Greeks who had slaves.  There are very few races of people in the history of the world who never had slaves.  
Did God put an end to any of it?  No; so he endorsed it if he had the power to stop it and refused.

He didn't put an end to whites in the South owning slaves; he didn't put an end to Africans in Africa owning slaves.

God supports slavery and it was America and the Northern Republican party that ended it in the US.  The South's justification for slavery was the bible said it was ok.

Also when it comes to the Bible, Christians teach, that EVERYONE is a slave.  There are no exceptions. We are either a slave to sin. Or we are a slave to righteousness. 
There is no other option.  
So doing what you want if you aren't harming anyone else significantly or doing what a pro slavery God wants even if it does harm someone else significantly?  Decision made.
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#18
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@WyIted
This does not make the bible pro slavery. It makes the bible pro obeying your master if you are a slave.


1. The bible is pro slavery.
2. The bible is pro obeying your master if you are a slave.

How is claim 1 different from claim 2?
#19
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@Stephen
Even that Master has a master the dollar bill. He's just a kingpin while being imprisoned inside the prison like any other prison.
#20
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@TheUnderdog
I don't believe I said capitalism. But all in the commerce world all enslaved by the dollar. 
Name anything a person does and ask is there a chain of bondage and obligation to chucking a dollar.
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#21
TheUnderdog
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@Mall
The dollar does not enslave people as it's all consensual.

If you don't want to work, that's your right, but then people don't have an obligation to give you money.
#22
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@TheUnderdog
1. The bible is pro slavery.
2. The bible is pro obeying your master if you are a slave.

How is claim 1 different from claim 2?

Because of the concern about how your believers represent you and the quality of their lives. If you want the Jews to be safe when enslaved by Egypt it is probably better to tell them to be the best slaves they can be, to incentivize the Egyptians not to genocide them.

Being pro slavery would be advocating for the institution of slavery. I think it would be similar to hating the institution of court as an anarchist but still realizing you should kiss the judges ass.

I am not going to claim the bible is anti-slavery only that giving a person a guide for how to act should they become enslaved is not the same as saying they should be enslaved. I don't see how it's much different from Jesus telling people to turn their cheek if they are bitch smacked. He isn't advocating for the romans to bitch slap his people. He is just telling his people to endure in an honorable way.
#23
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@TheUnderdog
1. The bible is pro slavery.
2. The bible is pro obeying your master if you are a slave.

One is advice to your followers so they don't embarass you or perhaps a different motivation could be so they avoid getting too many beatings. 

The others is thinking that slavery should be implemented. 

I was an anarchist or close to it at one point and u would definitely advocate for my son to kiss a judges ass no matter how much I thought that courts and judges should be abolished. 

I don't think you can really tell much by how a slave is advised to behave in a situation where the obly power he has is obedience to his master. At least a good slave may be able to become head slave and advocate for kinder treatment to other slaves. Even if he couldn't endure kinder treatment of others at least his life would be better by being obedient. 

I might be remembering the wrong stoic. I can't verify because my internet is slow at the moment, but I think Seneca would give advise in a similar way.


#24
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I guess I answered twice. Oh well
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@WyIted
If you want the Jews to be safe when enslaved by Egypt it is probably better to tell them to be the best slaves they can be, to incentivize the Egyptians not to genocide them.
And if you want neither to happen, then you post a big message in the sky telling the Egypitians to free their slaves if you are god.

I don't see how it's much different from Jesus telling people to turn their cheek if they are bitch smacked. He isn't advocating for the romans to bitch slap his people. He is just telling his people to endure in an honorable way.
God can say a similar message in the Sky for the Romans and that Christianity is real and should be the religion that should be followed.

He didn't do that because God doesn't exist.
#26
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@TheUnderdog
And if you want neither to happen, then you post a big message in the sky telling the Egypitians to free their slaves if you are god.
Yeah it's up to him how he deals with it. 

God can say a similar message in the Sky for the Romans and that Christianity is real and should be the religion that should be followed.

He didn't do that because God doesn't exist.
I am just here to discuss whether the phrase is the bible agreeing with slavery not to defend whether it is true or not. I wouldn't mind a discussion on the truth of the Bible but it's not something I would be good at attacking or defending. 
#27
Deb-8-a-bull
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Having a slave or slaves back then must of been mega ummmm,  
Must of been REAL helpful. 
It feels like once you have one you dont want to then not have one.

Also , it " feels " like people that had the " run " of other people felt a LITTLE BIT bad about it.
Maybe just a little bit. 

A middle Man would be needed. 


Im guessing.  
The Bible's "head scribe" had a slave, " of sorts. "

If you have slaves, you need to dance around it. 
You really do. 

So.   
SHELL WE ? 

" CUES MUSIC "  
Andddddd

Ok When i say "SLAVES"   , i do mean ,   
UNDERPAID WORKERS. 
OH , but these " underpaid workers are not allowed to just leave. 
Sooooooo
When i say UNDERPAID WORKERS , I mean . 
PRISONERS.  
Yeah. 
Sooooo, If they weren't on your farm , they would be put in prison.
( And yes prison is a really really bad place. ) 

And  ' dip ' 

Slave ownership is just. 
I mean.
Prisoner ownership is just.  
Well Its fair.  

Its better that they are out in the open air with no fences then in prison. 
Because remember what i said before? 

Yep Thats right. (  PRISON IS A bad scary place. ) 

Ya get fucked there. 

'Disido' 

What was i saying. Oh thats right.
I THINK PRISON IS.  UNHUMAN.
And you carry on with. 
Its crule and tuly horrible  what they do to people there. 

slaves are people not from around your neighborhood.  
They are from that place that treat its citizens very poorly. 

They don't , thats DO NOT fall under the ( love thy neighbor ) restrictions.  
Look .  you can see this here under the act
act 729. # ages ago. ( Neighbors are people with dwellings , within eye sight of your dwelling or dwellings   ) 


So ummm, yeah
' kicks dirt ' 

NOTHING TO SEE HERE.
MOVE ALONG. 


#28
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I'm happy to advise allllll. 
That,,,,
Here at.
                          《《《《《    WHIPS    R    US.  》》》》》

For one week only. 
WE ARE WHIPPING OFF A WHOPPING  65%  OFF ALLLLL WHIPS IN STOCK.  

If your talking whips 
We got em 

' whip sound ' 

Wife not doing as shes told ? 
 Sounds like she needs a good WHIPPING.  

Kids board. 
Well not anymore.   Give em a whip and off they go. 
You cant go wrong with giving your Kid and whip to play with. .  

So WHIP on down now for a CRACKING great deals on whips. 
We've Plenty of places to put your horse. 

Were?...??

WHIPS  R  US

When we whip it. 
We whip it good. 
' whip sound ' 


Trully great times for whip making and whip whiparing .
That repairing. 
 
#29
Deb-8-a-bull
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Who the fuck just said that.  ? ?? 

Whips are  just a stick with  a length of string attached to one end.
Who said it. 

Well, they are not right ? 
There not 
(  Say there is a ummm , a ar ) ( good idea deb ) 

You do know Theres an art to it right ? 
But you wouldn't would ya.
You dumbass

I want the name of that piece of shlt  who said it.
Who wasss it.

ANYONE ??
No.
NO ONE WANTS TO SAY WHO SAID IT ? ?  .

YOU FUCKING COWARDS. 







Please kids under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES,   
DO NOT ATTACH STRING TO THE END OF A STICK. 
Its really not woth it. 


#30
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@Deb-8-a-bull
https://youtu.be/j_QLzthSkfM?si=AbeCbPOlenCzBRkc