New York going down the wrong path.

Author: Greyparrot

Posts

Total: 101
HistoryBuff
HistoryBuff's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,192
3
3
3
HistoryBuff's avatar
HistoryBuff
3
3
3
-->
@IlDiavolo
I don’t know, HB. Let's ask the polls what people think about Biden's policies. 
I asked you to show me how he has made american's lives worse. You showed me an approval poll about his foreign policy. Did you even glance at this article before posting it? That has nothing to do with making american's lives worse. 

the whole world is talking about how close the US is to the bankruptcy due to the irresponsability of old Joe. 
what are you even talking about? America is not close to bankruptcy. Where would you even get that idea? And even if you thought that was true, Trump ran record setting deficits. So how would trump be better?

You're not going to give me lessons of populism, I know pretty well what it is.
I wasn't trying to give you a lesson. You asked me if he was a populist, but I don't know what you think that word means. It can mean different things to different people.

Besides, popular decisions are not necessarily good. Populism is usually good when there is plenty of money, but money doesn’t last long. When the government runs out of money, there it comes the problems.
I mean, sure. Hating immigrants is popular is some areas, and it definitely isn't good. The idea that doing things that are popular will "make the money run out" is kind of dumb. If you really have no plan for it, then just handing out money usually doesn't end well. But doing things like providing free healthcare are both popular and very good for society. And actually much cheaper than privatized healthcare. 

1. Porous borders. There is almost no resistance to the migration flow. 
this is wildly untrue. There is massive amounts of money spent on border security and 10's of thousands of people working to secure america's borders. 

Instead of kicking out migrants as soon as they set foot in the US, the authorities bus them to the big cities. What kind of message is it when the government rewards the crime, the illegality?
how is busing them to a city "rewarding them"? The people need to be processed before they are deported. 

Sanctuary States. If you treat migrants better than your own folks
no state treats migrants better than it's own citizens. Why would you think that?

how the fuck do you expect these migrants don’t come?
The point is that america wants migrants, they just want legal migrants. Giving people a path to immigrate legally is the answer to illegal immigration. 

Both reasons can be avoided single handed by the government, but Biden suspiciously didn't do it.
and what is that specifically? Because Biden continued almost all of trump's border policies. So I'm curious what you think biden should be doing that trump was doing.
ADreamOfLiberty
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,981
3
2
2
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
ADreamOfLiberty
3
2
2
-->
@HistoryBuff
what are you even talking about? America is not close to bankruptcy. Where would you even get that idea?
The budget total is negative every single year..... duh?

Because Biden continued almost all of trump's border policies. So I'm curious what you think biden should be doing that trump was doing.
Trump did not have a border policy where he bussed illegal entries to cities and patrolled them with no intention of having an asylum judgement made any time this century.

The law allows them to all be kept at the border and shoved back within 24 hours regardless of what they claim.
IlDiavolo
IlDiavolo's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,470
3
2
5
IlDiavolo's avatar
IlDiavolo
3
2
5
-->
@HistoryBuff
I asked you to show me how he has made american's lives worse. You showed me an approval poll about his foreign policy. Did you even glance at this article before posting it? That has nothing to do with making american's lives worse. 
It's not a foreign policy poll, it's a general poll. So, it seems It's not me who didn't see the article.

what are you even talking about? America is not close to bankruptcy. Where would you even get that idea? And even if you thought that was true, Trump ran record setting deficits. So how would trump be better?
Did you watch the video, HB? I can show you more videos along the line of the next economic collapse which will happen first in the US.

I wasn't trying to give you a lesson. You asked me if he was a populist, but I don't know what you think that word means. It can mean different things to different people.
There is only one meaning for that word: "political ideas and activities that are intended to get the support of ordinary people by giving them what they want" (Cambridge Dictionary)

I mean, sure. Hating immigrants is popular is some areas, and it definitely isn't good. The idea that doing things that are popular will "make the money run out" is kind of dumb. If you really have no plan for it, then just handing out money usually doesn't end well. But doing things like providing free healthcare are both popular and very good for society. And actually much cheaper than privatized healthcare. 
I'm not getting into details about Biden's policies because it's very technical. Nevertheless, I'd like to focus on the results because it's what really matters.

Biden just does what democrats want him to do (which is called populism in the US and anywhere) and the inmigration permisiveness is one of them. If you see the polls I presented, the migration issue is the least of the americans' problems, so I think Biden will still be permisive with migrants, unhappily.

how is busing them to a city "rewarding them"? The people need to be processed before they are deported.
Busing them to cities thousands of miles away from the borders to be processed? Really?

C'mon, dude. Give me a break. Hahahaha.

no state treats migrants better than it's own citizens. Why would you think that?
This is what americans think of it. You'd better watch the news so that you convince yourself.

The point is that america wants migrants, they just want legal migrants. Giving people a path to immigrate legally is the answer to illegal immigration. 
I agree with that, and this is something Biden is failing miserably. The situation is so terrible that a venezuelan gang is already operating  in NY and Chicago.

and what is that specifically? Because Biden continued almost all of trump's border policies. So I'm curious what you think biden should be doing that trump was doing.
No, he doesn't when it's so easy to revoke that stupid thing of Sanctuary States.
HistoryBuff
HistoryBuff's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,192
3
3
3
HistoryBuff's avatar
HistoryBuff
3
3
3
-->
@ADreamOfLiberty
The budget total is negative every single year..... duh?
so you know absolutely nothing about economics, gotcha. 

Trump did not have a border policy where he bussed illegal entries to cities and patrolled them with no intention of having an asylum judgement made any time this century.
lol of course he did. That is exactly what he did. Do you honestly that wasn't government policy under trump?

The law allows them to all be kept at the border and shoved back within 24 hours regardless of what they claim.
it does not.
HistoryBuff
HistoryBuff's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,192
3
3
3
HistoryBuff's avatar
HistoryBuff
3
3
3
-->
@IlDiavolo
It's not a foreign policy poll, it's a general poll. So, it seems It's not me who didn't see the article.
your reading comprehension seems very weak, so I will try in smaller sentences. You said Biden has made americans' lives worse. I asked what policies made their lives worse. You showed a poll about a policy that has no effect on american lives. 

So do you actually have any examples of biden policies that made american lives worse, or shall we just move on with the understanding that you can't name one? 

Did you watch the video, HB? I can show you more videos along the line of the next economic collapse which will happen first in the US.
I skimmed it. It was very stupid. The kind of thing a low budget political group puts out for low information voters. If you have a specific argument to make, go ahead and make it. 

There is only one meaning for that word: "political ideas and activities that are intended to get the support of ordinary people by giving them what they want"
very true. But most politicians would say that they give the people what they want. Like the republicans saying that most people want abortion bans. That's a lie, but they pretend it's true so they can justify pushing their ideological bullshit. Therefore what people actually mean when they use that word is very different. 

Biden just does what democrats want him to do (which is called populism in the US and anywhere) and the inmigration permisiveness is one of them.
that depends on what you mean. You say he does "what democrats want him to do". Democrats are not the majority of americans. So doing what they want would not be populism. In order for it to be populism, it has to appeal to a wider group of people. 

Busing them to cities thousands of miles away from the borders to be processed? Really?
yes. why does that confuse you?

This is what americans think of it. You'd better watch the news so that you convince yourself.
stupid people believe lots of things. it doesn't make it true.

I agree with that, and this is something Biden is failing miserably.
Biden has no way of doing anything about immigration. The republicans' sole priority during his presidency has been to block anything he tries to do and waste time. Saying he is failing miserably is mostly just a comment on Republican obstructionism. 

and what is that specifically? Because Biden continued almost all of trump's border policies. So I'm curious what you think biden should be doing that trump was doing.
No, he doesn't when it's so easy to revoke that stupid thing of Sanctuary States.
I'm thinking you know nothing about border policy. For one thing, sanctuary cities existed under trump too. So saying its "easy to revoke" them shows me you don't know anything because obviously trump couldn't do anything about them either. Also, that you think Biden is doing something different than what trump did. You are just repeating back vague talking points you got on some right wing propaganda outlet without bothering to find out anything specific about the topic. Their policies are almost identical. Biden deports more migrants than trump did. 
ADreamOfLiberty
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,981
3
2
2
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
ADreamOfLiberty
3
2
2
-->
@HistoryBuff
Time to play spot the difference:

A) Making everything free to take is the answer to theft.
B) Consenting faster is the solution to rape.
C) Giving everyone a path to immigrate legally is the answer to illegal immigration. 
ADreamOfLiberty
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,981
3
2
2
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
ADreamOfLiberty
3
2
2
-->
@HistoryBuff
The budget total is negative every single year..... duh?
so you know absolutely nothing about economics, gotcha. 
That is the most quintessential left-tribey response.

I state the blindly obvious. You ignore your own life experiences, common sense, don't care about the facts, and imply that anyone who dares to utter the blindingly obvious is ignorant.


Do you honestly that wasn't government policy under trump?
Yes


The law allows them to all be kept at the border and shoved back within 24 hours regardless of what they claim.
it does not.
I could cite the law with quotes, I've done it on this site recently; but you have and continue to show that you are worth only this: So you know absolutely nothing about immigration law, gotcha.


[IlDiavolo] Busing them to cities thousands of miles away from the borders to be processed? Really?
[HistoryBuff] yes. why does that confuse you?
because it's an enormous waste of resources just to tell someone the objective truth: You do not qualify as an asylum. (and that's if they were actually holding hearings, they just parole them and never contact them again except to hand out more stolen resources.


[IlDiavolo] This is what americans think of it. You'd better watch the news so that you convince yourself.
[HistoryBuff] stupid people believe lots of things. it doesn't make it true.
Said the guy who implies only those ignorant of economics think a constantly increasing debt with no hope of reversal is the definition of bankruptcy.


[HistoryBuff] I'm thinking you know nothing about border policy.
You've already you know absolutely nothing about immigration law.


Biden deports more migrants than trump did. 
You don't have to deport them if you don't let them in. *mind blown meme*
HistoryBuff
HistoryBuff's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,192
3
3
3
HistoryBuff's avatar
HistoryBuff
3
3
3
-->
@ADreamOfLiberty
Time to play spot the difference:

A) Making everything free to take is the answer to theft.
B) Consenting faster is the solution to rape.
C) Giving everyone a path to immigrate legally is the answer to illegal immigration. 
this is really dumb. For a party that claims to love free market capitalism, your seem to have a very hard time understanding it. Americans demand cheap labor to provide them goods and services. People to pick fruit, to clean hotel rooms etc. People from other countries want a better life and companies need/want to hire them. As long as these 2 conditions remain true it doesn't matter how much you spend fortifying the border. At the end of the day, you either need to create a system where low paid labor isn't needed/wanted, or improve their lives in their own countries so they don't want to leave to do low paid labor here. The solution is to create a path to citizenship so people can come legally and do the jobs that americans demand done, but aren't willing to do themselves.

It's the same reason why the war on drugs is pointless. As long as americans want drugs and are willing to pay for them, people will find a way to supply them. 
WyIted
WyIted's avatar
Debates: 29
Posts: 5,088
3
4
9
WyIted's avatar
WyIted
3
4
9
-->
@Greyparrot
Tulsi slams the New York policies
I loved her when she was a Democrat and was happy when she was a Democrat becauseit helped Redpill a portion of the left when Google started to attack her by manipulating search results and when the system started attempting to lock her out. 

I was surprised that Bernie Bros were not red pilled when they saw Hillary win 13 coin tosses in a row coincidentally to keep the lead in the Democratic primary. Not to mention the media's reaction to his existence . Sure thy are fine with him outside of election season but how they respond when he is the biggest threat to Hillary should have been an eye opener for them. 

It takes so much to Redpill these people. I am sure Tulsi has redpilled a few but the process is just crazy. It only took one thing for me to get red pilled and it was the movie loose change. 
ADreamOfLiberty
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,981
3
2
2
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
ADreamOfLiberty
3
2
2
-->
@HistoryBuff
Time to play spot the difference:

A) Making everything free to take is the answer to theft.
B) Consenting faster is the solution to rape.
C) Giving everyone a path to immigrate legally is the answer to illegal immigration. 
this is really dumb.
Glad you realized. Hopefully you'll think more carefully next time.


For a party that claims to love free market capitalism, your seem to have a very hard time understanding it. Americans demand cheap labor to provide them goods and services. People to pick fruit, to clean hotel rooms etc.
because that's all immigrants are good for huh? What happened to "wage slavery"? Your racism is showing again :)


it doesn't matter how much you spend fortifying the border.
That is definitely false. If you start shooting people instead of giving them thousands of dollars and bussing them to their destination of choice I bet you the number of illegal crossings will drop to below 100/year (and they'll all be drug runners).


The solution is to create a path to citizenship so people can come legally and do the jobs that americans demand done, but aren't willing to do themselves.
There is no job I'm not willing to do myself. I've done the worst jobs and I've done the best jobs. Increasing the population only increases quality of life if the average productivity increases and that is far from guaranteed thanks to the extremely corrupt and inefficiency welfare state.

That is all besides the point because my objection to your comment has nothing to do with jobs or opportunity or who should get either. It's about princible.

You implied that the solution for someone violating you by taking something that requires consent would be to give them consent. If that is the only solution then you didn't own it in the first place and they had the right to do what they did regardless of what you thought.

No matter what your immigration laws are, if anyone is excluded (say an out and proud islamic terrorist), then the solution to them entering illegally is not to change policy to give them permission or forgiveness.

One of the examples was "Consenting faster is the solution to rape."

You're arguing "No really, it will feel great"

Yea perhaps you're right. Perhaps 'we' (USA) should consent because it's what's good for us; but if we aren't allowed to use force after saying "no" then we don't really own our  body (territory).


If that's what you're saying, that anyone who wants to come here has a right to come here; just say it. I would have a different objection to that then you might assume.


It's the same reason why the war on drugs is pointless. As long as americans want drugs and are willing to pay for them, people will find a way to supply them. 
As a principle it is absurd to claim that because something can't be stamped out it shouldn't be suppressed. Because of the arbitrary happenstance of international law it would be frowned upon to go to the source of the problem and fix it (more than "we've" already done), but those arbitrary laws also say you don't have to let anybody into your country.

You use the tools you're given, and if we aren't allowed to stop people from entering then the only other solution is to go solve those problems at the source; but then you need to integrate the territory to keep the place civilized.

Congratulations now you're an empire. If you ask me there is only one way empire can be justified and that's if you have your moral shit together in a way other people do not. That does not describe the United States of America right now. We're about to start killing each other en masse.
IlDiavolo
IlDiavolo's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,470
3
2
5
IlDiavolo's avatar
IlDiavolo
3
2
5
-->
@HistoryBuff
your reading comprehension seems very weak, so I will try in smaller sentences. You said Biden has made americans' lives worse. I asked what policies made their lives worse. You showed a poll about a policy that has no effect on american lives. 

So do you actually have any examples of biden policies that made american lives worse, or shall we just move on with the understanding that you can't name one? 
Please, HB, tell me that you saw this image in the polls analysis: datawrapper.dwcdn.net/Bql02/10/#

Some of them are effectevely foreign matters, but there you can see an item corresponding to the economy which has irremediably a connection with the situation in Ukraine because Biden is printing money like there is no tomorrow. Borrowing so much money affects the US economy. You can also see the inmigration issue in the list which has the highest disrproval. But well, according to you everything is swell.

And please, HB, don't get so jumpy. I'm just trying to interchange points of view.

I skimmed it. It was very stupid. The kind of thing a low budget political group puts out for low information voters. If you have a specific argument to make, go ahead and make it.
You're starting to be in denial. It's not a campaign against democrats, everyone is talking about it.

very true. But most politicians would say that they give the people what they want. Like the republicans saying that most people want abortion bans. That's a lie, but they pretend it's true so they can justify pushing their ideological bullshit. Therefore what people actually mean when they use that word is very different. 

that depends on what you mean. You say he does "what democrats want him to do". Democrats are not the majority of americans. So doing what they want would not be populism. In order for it to be populism, it has to appeal to a wider group of people. 
As long as the government's policies don't affect the economy, that is ok. Bill Clinton once said, "it's the economy, stupid". No offense intended, by the way.

I'm thinking you know nothing about border policy. For one thing, sanctuary cities existed under trump too. So saying its "easy to revoke" them shows me you don't know anything because obviously trump couldn't do anything about them either. Also, that you think Biden is doing something different than what trump did. You are just repeating back vague talking points you got on some right wing propaganda outlet without bothering to find out anything specific about the topic. Their policies are almost identical. Biden deports more migrants than trump did. 
Trump did everything that he could. On the other side, Biden is doing nothing, he's not moving even a finger to solve the problem. This is the difference.

And I obviously know little about it because I'm not american, but I'm very informed about what the US president does and does not.