Uh-Oh....looks like Scotus steps in to save Democracy from the Deep State

Author: Greyparrot

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@HistoryBuff
why? And how is that relevant? I've already established that the constitution doesn't require you to have been charged or convicted. I even explained the reason why they wrote it that way, because they didn't want to have to go and criminally charge all the southern leaders with crimes in order to prevent them from running for office. 
You asked about how they determine whether someone committed insurrection. I said Congress specifically passed a law determining what insurrection is. That’s the standard. As for your southern leaders, that’s exactly what the founders of the 14th amendment intended. You can’t take away someone’s right without due process
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@ADreamOfLiberty
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@Greyparrot
Yes, I saw.
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@Greyparrot
Word association.


SCOTUS...Scrotum.

POTUS...Potato.


I genuinely, cannot see these acronyms without thinking of these associations.

Do they affect you the same?
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@zedvictor4
Congress= Congame
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@ILikePie5
You asked about how they determine whether someone committed insurrection. I said Congress specifically passed a law determining what insurrection is. That’s the standard.
that is the standard for criminal procedures. We are not discussing a criminal procedure. We are not discussing a court of law. 

As for your southern leaders, that’s exactly what the founders of the 14th amendment intended. You can’t take away someone’s right without due process
I'm not sure what your point here is. The 14th amendment was designed to take away their right to run for office without them being criminally charged. That was what it was designed to do. 
ILikePie5
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@HistoryBuff
I'm not sure what your point here is. The 14th amendment was designed to take away their right to run for office without them being criminally charged. That was what it was designed to do. 
After due process…
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@Greyparrot
I was wondering why he hadn’t shown up yet lol
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@HistoryBuff
I'm not sure what your point here is. The 14th amendment was designed to take away their right to run for office without them being criminally charged. That was what it was designed to do. 
You need to go back in time and tell the people who wrote it, because they failed at achieving that goal.

8 days later

Double_R
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@Greyparrot
5) All the polls saying Biden might win if Trump is convicted before November are now meaningless and irrelevant, since there is no path for this to happen now.
Curious to know what your thoughts were on this... Do you find it a good thing that the American pubic will potentially be voting this man into office for a second term without seeing the full evidence gathered showing what he did leading up to January 6th as well as while the US Capitol was under attack?
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@Double_R
It's been 3 years. Everyone who was on the fence about Jan 6 has seen the leaked footage. Everyone on the fence got a chance to see the draconian political sentences handed out for trespassing and misdemeanors. The polls are justified.

Turns out pandering to the lock-them-up crowd has unintended consequences. Lesson for next time I guess.
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@Greyparrot
Everyone who was on the fence about Jan 6 has seen the leaked footage. Everyone on the fence got a chance to see the draconian political sentences handed out for trespassing and misdemeanors.
I asked you how you felt about the public voting for a man for president without being able to see the full evidence against him showing what he did leading up to and on January 6th and your answer is to talk about leaked footage at the Capitol and trial sentencing, two things that have absolutely nothing to do with him.

How telling.
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@Double_R
How telling.
It is telling. When you see people with the same agenda hiding evidence and making up crimes you no longer care much about their secret evidence that they can only tell to sequestered pseudo-juries with TDS.

The deep state who cried wolf.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Exactly. You can't cry about not getting an insurrection trial before an election when the people you support refuse to charge DJT with the crime.

Turns out that voters really don't care about empty promises and revisionist prophecies. Astoundingly, Biden's DOJ managed to piss off both tribes with that approach (much like Comey did when he put the spotlight on Hillary and then pulled it away)

The polls are justified.
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@Greyparrot
You can't cry about not getting an insurrection trial before an election when the people you support refuse to charge DJT with the crime.
What a silly post.

Supporting someone does not mean agreeing with everything they do, nor does it rob anyone of their rhetorical right to be upset at any particular decision they made.

But that's fine, not like I was expecting a serious answer from to you on the very basic question of whether you think the people should know what evidence the DOJ has before deciding whether the defendant should be the next person to carry the nuclear codes.
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@Double_R
the very basic question of whether you think the people should know what evidence the DOJ has
well.. you are not gonna see evidence for it if the guy never gets charged for it. Common sense really.

Can't wait to trade those nuclear codes in for some of that cheap gas and cheap food.
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@Greyparrot
well.. you are not gonna see evidence for it if the guy never gets charged for it. Common sense really.
Yes, it is. The question has always been why is closing your eyes and ears to the evidence a good thing? Are you not the least bit embarrassed to be in favor of that?

Can't wait to trade those nuclear codes in for some of that cheap gas and cheap food.
Right, the safety and security of the free world, or cheap gas and groceries (with no actual evidence gas and groceries would be any cheaper)?

MAGA math
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@Double_R
Right, the safety and security of the free world, or cheap gas and groceries (with no actual evidence gas and groceries would be any cheaper)?

We had both in 2016 for 4 years. We have neither in 2024.

TDS math works just as well. You agreed anyway With Trump about EJC being a nobody, so you can do MAGA math too as a card carrying member now.
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@Greyparrot
We had both in 2016 for 4 years. We have neither in 2024.
Obama was in office in 2016, when Trump took over nothing changed. We continued the same trajectory of job and economic growth we had enjoyed for the prior 7 years. When Biden took over everything was a mess from the aftermath of COVID (which Trump was in office for), Biden had to spend the next 2-3 years to clean it up.

Trump supporters love to argue that things were great when Trump was in office, and bad while Biden was in office, therefore Trump was great and Biden bad. Setting aside the massive correlation/causation fallacy, it's cartoonishly simplistic. The question any thinking individual would know to ask is what each president did to affect their circumstances, there's almost nothing you can point to to give any credit to Trump and none of the things the right tries to use to justify their BDS holds up to rational scrutiny.
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@Double_R
Setting aside the massive correlation/causation fallacy, it's cartoonishly simplistic.

I know, it relies on the cartoonishly simplistic premise that being president actually matters.
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@Greyparrot
I know, it relies on the cartoonishly simplistic premise that being president actually matters.
No, it relies on the cartoonishly simplistic premise that being president is the only thing that matters. High inflation? Obviously Biden's fault. High gas prices? Biden's fault. Russia invades Ukraine? Biden's fault. Hammas attacks Israel? Who else's fault could that be? Of course it's Biden's fault. It's as if the entire world waits to see who gets elected before they can decide their own path forward.

But of course, it only goes one way so long as we're talking about the bad. When Trump was in office we saw a million Americans die from a pandemic, the entire country locked down, unemployment at record levels, the federal debt exploded, and civil unrest leading to riots all over the country. Was any of that Trump's fault? No, of course not. Assuming we have even enough intellectual honesty to acknowledge it happened at all given that most Trump defenders skip over it entirely as if Trump's first term only lasted 3 years.
Greyparrot
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No, it relies on the cartoonishly simplistic premise that being president is the only thing that matters. High inflation? Obviously Biden's fault. High gas prices? Biden's fault. Russia invades Ukraine? Biden's fault. Hammas attacks Israel? Who else's fault could that be? Of course it's Biden's fault.
Being president either matters or it does not. Of course Biden is going to cartoonishly blame everything on Putin when Biden fucks up, but the people didn't elect Putin. They elected Biden. They can also unelect him. 

While your reflexive and cartoonish "context" defense seems on the surface to work in Biden's defense, in the end, it simply weakens him. A good example of this was Hur proclaiming Biden as too forgetful to be held responsible. If he is too unfit to stand trial; if he is too incompetent to be the responsible president that takes action, then the voters will have a say about that.

 Was any of that Trump's fault? No, of course not. 
Absolutely wrong. 15 days to slow the spread was entirely Trump's fault, which cascaded into a lockdown frenzy all around the country as state governors cowered in fear. The big difference of course is that Trump had 3 good years in balance with the 1 bad year. Biden has a grand total of zero good years according to the polls.

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@Double_R
The saner parts of the country will continue to believe that being a competent president matters no matter how many "context" cultists defend Biden as a president unable to react in a positive way to anything that happens in the world.
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@Greyparrot
Here is the real blueprint for saving democracy

https://youtu.be/kUYPNsTpO4Y?si=lh5chx2FGnsfM_Ht
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Can anyone here conclusively prove that I don't work for the deep state?
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That's what I thought.
Double_R
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@Greyparrot
Being president either matters or it does not.
Wrong. It's not an either/or, it's a scale. 'How much does the president matter?' is a legitimate question and it changes when we zoom in on each issue. The president leads just one of the three branches of the federal government. You also have state and local governments all throughout the country that are collectively just as important, as well as governments all throughout the world making their own decisions. You also have private entities everywhere (like big corporations) making major decisions that affect all of us which the federal government has no legal right to intervene in.

So the president certainly matters, but to suggest he's the only thing that matters is to pretend none of these other governments/entities exist or have any power/rights of their own. That's absurd, and yet it is the notion that all of these "look at the country then and now" arguments are based on.

Again, we judge president's not merely on what happens while they were in office but on what influence they had.

While your reflexive and cartoonish "context" defense seems on the surface to work in Biden's defense, in the end, it simply weakens him.
Context is always going to be a crucially important aspect of understanding any affair, so putting it in quotes and acting like I'm using it as an excuse just makes you look stupid.

A good example of this was Hur proclaiming Biden as too forgetful to be held responsible.
It's a good example of how effectively propaganda works. The transcripts have since been released and shown Hur's comments inn this to be factually wrong. He was lying, Biden remembered everything, but that won't stop the MAGA base from repeating this till November and beyond.

The big difference of course is that Trump had 3 good years in balance with the 1 bad year. Biden has a grand total of zero good years according to the polls.
That's because Biden was handed the mess Trump left him. Regardless of what blame you put on either of them, the circumstances Biden inherited are objectively worse than that of Trump. Biden was handed an economy still mostly shut down and a supply chain that was destroyed. Trump was handed an economy that had been growing for 7 straight years with no major national or global issues. To pretend isn't factual or doesn't matter is flagrantly disingenuous.

But even setting that aside, it's hilarious that you base your assessment on polls, as if we don't have objective ways to measure these things.

It also reminds me of why the polls are so skewed; because right wingers generally don't care about facts. One of the best illustrations of this was a poll done after the 2016 election. The polls asking people if they thought the economy was doing well showed about approval for democrats in about the high 70's in the final months of Obama's presidency. Then within months of Trump's election victory, that number dropped into the 50's.

Any rational observer can see that for what it is. There was no major change to the state of the economy that happened at that time, only thing that changed was who was in office, so it's clearly a partisan motivated drop.

So what was the change for republicans? It went from approvals in the teens at the end of the Obama presidency, and within months of Trump's victory was in the high 90's.

That's absurd and this example is yet another data point of what we already know; facts matter fat less to republicans. This is just another example of why we don't base any attempt at a factual assessment of something like the economy on polls.


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@Double_R
'How much does the president matter enough to justify my support?' 

Fixed for you.

 He was lying, Biden remembered everything,
Then why did Biden question his own staff about the date? Only a mentally confused person would ask for assistance. 

Hur was right. If I asked you what date you were born and you had to ask someone else...I would say the exact same thing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: 2015.
PRESIDENT BIDEN: Was it 2015 he had died?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: It was May of 2015.

You act like the average independent voter can't access this:

The polls are justified.
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@Double_R
It also reminds me of why the polls are so skewed; because right wingers generally don't care about facts. One of the best illustrations of this was a poll done after the 2016 election. The polls asking people if they thought the economy was doing well showed about approval for democrats in about the high 70's in the final months of Obama's presidency. Then within months of Trump's election victory, that number dropped into the 50's.

Lol, you post a poll covering all tribes and any change is automatically attributed to the right tribe? A tribe that is around 30%? A poll that easily could have been just as influenced by the sour-grapes left-tribe?
Your bias is showing

Considering what we now know about Hillary and her current popularity, the polls were also justified. You could even say the polls were prescient as gut feelings usually are, despite the social stigma on discrimination.

Hillary didn't matter enough to have support for the presidency. Just like Biden in 2024.

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@Greyparrot
'How much does the president matter enough to justify my support?' 
Fixed for you.
No, fixed for you. This conversation started because you made the argument that correlation = causation with regards to everything that happens during a president's term, but now that this argument fell apart you have to pretend it was something else.

Then why did Biden question his own staff about the date? Only a mentally confused person would ask for assistance. 

Hur was right. If I asked you what date you were born and you had to ask someone else...I would say the exact same thing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: 2015.
PRESIDENT BIDEN: Was it 2015 he had died?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: It was May of 2015.

You act like the average independent voter can't access this:
I'm not the one pretending the plain English says something it doesn't.

Here, since we all know you didn't actually read it and are just parroting what you heard, this is the full excerpt of that exchange (it's on page 83):

Biden: “Remember, in this timeframe, my son is either been deployed or is dying. … Even though I'm at Penn, I hadn't walked away from the idea that I may run for office again. But if I ran again, I 'd be running for president. And, and so what was happening, though – what month did Beau die? Oh, God, May 30th.”

Rachel Cotton, White House lawyer: “2015.”

Unidentified male speaker: “2015.”

Biden: “Was it 2015 he had died?”

Unidentified male speaker: “It was May of 2015.”

Biden: “It was 2015.”

Notice how Biden asks what month he died and then immediately answers his own question by providing not just the month but the exact date. Then notice how his staff jumps in to plug in the year which confuses Biden for a second before remembering and confirming they were right.

There is absolutely nothing noteworthy about this at all. People forget dates and times all the time. We recall specifics like this by association, so by throwing out different parts of the story it all comes flooding back. That's how brains work. To pretend this shows Biden to be some senile old man isn't just disingenuous, it's stupid.

The polls are justified.
If everybody's consuming the same propaganda you are it's no wonder people see the world the way you do.

Lol, you post a poll covering all tribes and any change is automatically attributed to the right tribe?
My god dude. Read. Then reply.

The polls were broken up by democrats and republicans and showed how each groups answers changed over time.

Again, democrats rating of the state of the economy went from high 70's to the 50's within months of the election. During the same time period the republicans went from the teens to the high 90's. Nothing happened during this time period other than the election, any noticable movement in such a short eventless time period is clearly motivated by political bias. But it shows the stark difference. That's why polls like this are meaningless.